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Title: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 05, 2017, 04:24:14 PM
I grew up in Winnipeg, Manitoba during the late 1940s, 1950s and early 1960s.  I played organised youth hockey from age 6 through 17, including major bantam and major midget, and into Junior A, before moving to Chicago.  As Winnipeg had no NHL team, I became a fan of The Chicago Blackhawks, as we had family there that we visited each year. We had a neighbour, whose parents were good family friends of ours (Ab McDonald), who started playing in The Blackhawks' system in the early '50s, and played 7 years for The Blackhawks.  When he was traded to The St. Louis Blues in 1968, I became a fan of that team.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 05, 2017, 05:41:14 PM
Nothing to add except I sure remember Ab McDonald. One of those guys with what I then considered to be an colorful or unusual first name, as in the Moose Vasko/Orland Kurtenbach Division.

Wait, I used to go to a dry cleaner outside San Francisco who hailed from Regina and claimed to have been Gordie Howe's neighbor while growing up.  I wonder if that was true?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 05, 2017, 06:21:30 PM
Nothing to add except I sure remember Ab McDonald. One of those guys with what I then considered to be an colorful or unusual first name, as in the Moose Vasko/Orland Kurtenbach Division.

Wait, I used to go to a dry cleaner outside San Francisco who hailed from Regina and claimed to have been Gordie Howe's neighbor while growing up.  I wonder if that was true?

What's so colourful about the name, "Abner"?  It's just an old-time name from The Bible, maybe not so common now, but it was pretty common in Canada in The 1930s-50s.  I can even think of a Ranger from your time with that name, Ab DeMarco, Jr.  His father was a great NHL player.  Like Abraham (Abram) Hebrew: Av Ram (exalted father) - (the respected father of his people). Abner (Av Ner) means: father of light (The Lord is the father of light).

As far as that guy from Regina, he may have been telling the truth, or exaggerating some.  Gordie was always publicised as having been so strong from having been raised on a farm, and lifting 100 lb manure sacks and lifting even heavier hay bales.  He was from a rural area southeast of Saskatoon, a fair bit north of Regina.  When he was 16, a Detroit Red Wings' scout signed him in early 1944. That summer, he moved to Galt, Ontario, to play Junior A hockey that fall, and season in The Ontario Hockey Association.  He was sent to The Wings' farm team in Omaha of The United States Hockey League in 1945-46. Gordie never really moved back to Saskatchewan, only returned for visits in summer.  The fellow from Regina either grew up on the next farm over, in Floral, before moving to Regina, or he was exaggerating quite a bit (meaning that he lived in the same part of the Province).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 06, 2017, 01:25:46 AM
Never knew/thought that Ab stood for Abner. I was maybe 14-15, when I "discovered" hockey, the last of the big 4 sports to which I have or have had an interest. One thing for sure is that my universe of "normal" given names was quite a bit narrower back then than it is now. At the time, Ab just struck me as unusual. I have known many people named Abe/Abraham/Avram, but never anyone called Ab (other than Mr. McDonald). But I do think there was a character called Abner in an old sitcom I used to watch (can't recall which one), and of course there was Lil' Abner (comic strip) and Abner Doubleday, the non-inventor of baseball.

As to my dry cleaner (it was a her), beginning to sound like an exaggeration. If so, not the only time I've encountered someone who claimed some connection to a famous person or sports figure or claimed to have "played for" or "had a tryout" with sports team, that proved to be bogus. But a few (not many) turned out to be legitimate as well. Oh well, still makes for a good story... 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 06, 2017, 04:45:25 AM
Never knew/thought that Ab stood for Abner. I was maybe 14-15, when I "discovered" hockey, the last of the big 4 sports to which I have or have had an interest. One thing for sure is that my universe of "normal" given names was quite a bit narrower back then than it is now. At the time, Ab just struck me as unusual. I have known many people named Abe/Abraham/Avram, but never anyone called Ab (other than Mr. McDonald). But I do think there was a character called Abner in an old sitcom I used to watch (can't recall which one), and of course there was Lil' Abner (comic strip) and Abner Doubleday, the non-inventor of baseball.

As to my dry cleaner (it was a her), beginning to sound like an exaggeration. If so, not the only time I've encountered someone who claimed some connection to a famous person or sports figure or claimed to have "played for" or "had a tryout" with sports team, that proved to be bogus. But a few (not many) turned out to be legitimate as well. Oh well, still makes for a good story...  

Now that I know that the person from Saskatchewan was a woman, I tend to believe that she was a farm girl from Floral.  Living near Gordie wouldn't be the kind of thing a woman would fib about.  I doubt that she lived on the next farm over, but that town had about 2,000 people and was very small.  Wherever she lived would have been nearby.  A woman might brag about having dated him.  It's the kind of thing a man would lie about to brag.  In addition, in the Prairie Provinces, long distances are nothing.  People drive their trucks 400 miles just to go shopping.  It's less than 200 miles from Regina to Floral.  In a rural area, saying one was a "neighbour" of someone can be a figure of speech (meaning they came from the same general area - especially when far away, in another country).  Everything is relative.  She may have simply meant that she came from the same part of the same province as did the only Canadian you've ever heard of.  What a coincidence, eh?  Or did she say she used to bring hot muffins over to his house every Sunday?  :D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 06, 2017, 12:02:29 PM
She was a real nice lady with whom I'd casually chat when bringing in my clothes. Her husband might have been a Brit, as I foggily now recall his accent. Possibly Jewish too, an even more foggy remembrance. She didn't seem to be the fibbing type, but people sometimes say strange things to self-promote, so who knows. I much enjoyed your description of life in the prairie provinces, an area (both US and Canada) with which I'm not terribly familiar. As for Canada, I do know a folk or two, originally from my NHL interest and later from several (10+) visits. As it happens, one son graduated from UBC in "Van", my wife's sister married a guy from the Toronto area - the couple now residing in Squamish, B.C, and his brother, whom we've met as well is with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (fabulous uniforms they have).

If nothing else, ya gots ta love Canadian place names, from Kamloops to Squamish to Medicine Hat to Yellowknife to Chicoutimi.

Once upon a time a guy who worked directly for me suddenly claimed to have played for the NY Knicks. One look at him and you'd know that could not even have been remotely possible. But he insisted. In those pre-Internet days, I looked him up in my basketball encyclopedia which had stats of every player who had ever graced the NBA (and predecessor leagues - e.g. BAA, ABL, ABA, etc.) hardwoods up to the time of publication. Naturally, his name was nowhere to be found. Typical.     


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 06, 2017, 05:28:03 PM
First team with a recommendation from their scout to sign Gordie was the NY Rangers. Howe turned them down because they wanted to send him someplace he didn't want to go. Red Wings snapped him up the following year.

Question: Howe scored the most total goals of any player in the Original Six. Who scored the second most?  Right winger.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 06, 2017, 08:23:32 PM
First team with a recommendation from their scout to sign Gordie was the NY Rangers. Howe turned them down because they wanted to send him someplace he didn't want to go. Red Wings snapped him up the following year.

Question: Howe scored the most total goals of any player in the Original Six. Who scored the second most?  Right winger.

You'll need to define what you mean by "2nd most total career goals of any player in the Original Six".  Does that mean total goals while playing for an "original six" team?  Or do you mean 2nd most career goals at the end of The 1966-67 season (the last season before expansion).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 06, 2017, 08:57:28 PM
First team with a recommendation from their scout to sign Gordie was the NY Rangers. Howe turned them down because they wanted to send him someplace he didn't want to go. Red Wings snapped him up the following year.

Question: Howe scored the most total goals of any player in the Original Six. Who scored the second most?  Right winger.

You'll need to define what you mean by "2nd most total career goals of any player in the Original Six".  Does that mean total goals while playing for an "original six" team?  Or do you mean 2nd most career goals at the end of The 1966-67 season (the last season before expansion).

The latter, Robb. Howe scored hundreds of goals while there were only the 6 teams, and then scored hundreds more after expansion. The player I'm thinking of was 2nd in total goals to Gordie at the end of that last pre-expansion season. Unlike Gordie, his career ended some years before expansion.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 06, 2017, 11:45:27 PM
Maurice?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 07, 2017, 12:34:35 AM
Maurice?

Yep!  The Rocket had 544, and I remember when Gordie passed him in the early '60s.  Nobody else did, until Bobby Hull a few years after expansion.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 07, 2017, 09:40:13 AM
Yep, the Rocket.

Read where Howe was listed as an "ambidextrous" shot. Whereas, most players are listed as either a left or right handed shot (Rocket was a left handed shot). What exactly does ambidextrous in a hockey sense mean? That Gordie, a RW, changed up his grip as the situation called for?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 07, 2017, 10:41:09 AM
Howe listed as ambidextrous shot. What is ambidextrous in hockey?
It means the player shoots with the stick on both left & right side of his body. In the old days before Bobby Hull started bending his stick blade, players had straight blades. That meant you could just turn the stick around, & using it would be the same, either way (with the stick located on left or right side of the body). About 75% now, but 85% when I was a kid) shot from the side of their "weak hand", because their strong hand would be on top to control the stick in their "swinging motion", & their weak hand was too weak when they started playing as a little kid. The stick is controlled from the top hand and arm. In Canada, most kids start at 5 to 7, most shoot from left, as most are born right-handed. Right-handed shooters are natural lefties, plus players who started playing later (10+). So, there are lots more right handed shooters among Americans, as they start later, on average. As 75% of players shoot left handed, half the right wingers play on the "off wing", shooting the opposite way to what would be natural to keep the puck protected (shielded from the defender by the puck carrier's body on the wall side) while the carrier drives up ice.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 07, 2017, 10:44:05 AM
Continued from above:
There's advantage to shooting from the off wing, in that the angle towards the net is less extreme, making an easier shot, resulting in higher % accuracy (getting puck on net) IF puck isn't stolen by the defender on a poke check, or the play isn't broken up by his getting his stick on it. Gordie was so strong that he controlled the stick in both directions even when young. He was very comfortable shooting from both sides. Normal players use backhand shots (emphasis comes from the lower arm, in a flip motion in situations where the stick can't be brought over to the forehand side. But backhand is weaker, and is no good at distance. A strong player, or player comfortable from both sides, will just make a forehand shot, using his lower arm/hand as the controlling arm, where the playing not used to shooting from his "off hand" will be limited to a weaker backhand shot. I built up my left arm strength at age 7, using my weak hand exclusively, so I was ambidexterous by 9. Backhand shot is BETTER close in on goal, as it's better for lifting the puck over the goalie, as the angle the stick makes on the ice is more slanted, making it easier to get under the puck, and flip it up.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: jp05 on February 07, 2017, 03:59:08 PM
Joe C, Gordie Howe was known to switch from left hand to right hand while skating and then scoring a goal. I'm a right hand shot, taking up the game in my teens, and couldn't coordinate having the right hand high. As a result, a less than stellar shot!

Hockey is still my favorite sport, trailed by (American) football and baseball, depending on the season. Hockey is the one sport where normal sized people can be very competitive and make up for lack of talent with a strong desire and tolerance for pain. Baseball in my opinion, beyond the youth leagues demands more hand-eye coordination to play well. But is very easy to read a book, magazine or newspaper while watching baseball on TV.

I now play lots of golf (4x a week, sometimes more) and moved to Florida at least part time 20 years ago so I "could play golf all year in shorts". Now hear 8 months a year in Ft. Myers, with an ECHL franchise (Florida Everblades) about 15 minutes away, and the Lightning and Panthers about 90 minutes away. I miss NE for the college hockey, but the ECHL is very good hockey. And we have the Red Sox and Twins here for spring training if you need a live baseball fix.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 07, 2017, 05:58:06 PM
Robb and jp, thanks for the comments/explanation.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 07, 2017, 08:01:28 PM
Did Bob Costas  start out announcing  Nets?Ducks? ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 07, 2017, 08:16:09 PM
Think Costas started out doing play-by-play of ABA games for his hometown Spirits of St. Louis.

When I went to Ducks games (1959-62), I don't think they had ANY broadcasts whatsoever. They started out "unaffiliated" with any Original Six team. Meaning, they really operated on a shoestring budget. Didn't draw well either in those early days at least.

Only Ducks player I recall was John Muckler, a defenseman who went on to become an NHL HC and GM with multiple NHL teams.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 07, 2017, 08:19:02 PM
Am I right in thinking the term "one timer" relates to a player shooting the instant the puck hits his stick?

How long has this been a hockey term? I don't recall it being used years ago.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 07, 2017, 10:30:14 PM
Am I right in thinking the term "one timer" relates to a player shooting the instant the puck hits his stick?

How long has this been a hockey term? I don't recall it being used years ago.
Yes.  You are correct.  I heard that term used in Canada as early as the 1960 or so.  But, I don't remember Foster Hewitt or Danny Gallivan using it on Hockey Night in Canada.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 07, 2017, 10:36:39 PM
In watching the Washington Caps games here, the term must be used 10 times a game.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 07, 2017, 10:36:54 PM
That is  one timer--not  used by Elliot or Albert.  How hockey has changed--can't change line if  ice. Delay penalty  if hit puck intentionally  into  stands.  

Blocks by  non-goalies  is fairly new---how about  keeping track of hits.  

Costas hometown is Commack.  Know he started  with  St Louis.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 07, 2017, 11:39:57 PM
Didn't know that about Costas's hometown. So, we lived maybe 15 miles apart but he's  8 1/2 years younger than me. Where is the LI accent? Guess the Newhouse School at Syracuse knocked it out of him.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 08, 2017, 01:20:01 AM
Maybe all the plastic surgery  knocked  it out of him.

BTW, Boomer from  Patchogue,  Kupchak  too?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 08, 2017, 09:35:42 AM
Maybe all the plastic surgery  knocked  it out of him.

BTW, Boomer from  Patchogue,  Kupchak  too?

Boomer went to East Islip HS (which, along with Patchogue HS, were Sayville HS's big rivals). Very near to where Doowopdan lived. Kupchak was from Brentwood I thought. Yaz, Red Sox HoFer was a little older than me. He was from Bridgehampton,  (all potato farms back then).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 08, 2017, 11:57:06 AM
I definitely remember the term "one timer" commonly being used on NHL broadcasts back in the day - meaning as far back as the 1970's at least. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 08, 2017, 12:23:55 PM
Gowdy  said  Yaz  from RON--CONN-COMO  --accent on wrong syllable.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 08, 2017, 05:49:44 PM
Gowdy  said  Yaz  from RON--CONN-COMO  --accent on wrong syllable.

Gowdy lied.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 08, 2017, 05:52:33 PM
Strike that. Let's just say he was misinformed.

From Carl's own website: "Carl Michael Yastrzemski, better known as "Yaz" or "Captain Carl", was born on August 22, 1939 in Southhampton, New York. The son of a potato farmer, Yastrzemski grew up in the small town of Bridgehampton, Long Island.

He attended Bridgehampton High School, where he set numerous records in basketball, football and baseball. As a basketball player, he set the all-time individual conference scoring record of 628 points. As a baseball players, Yastrzemski hit .512 for his career at Bridgehampton High.

After graduating from high school in 1957, Yastrzemski went on to attend Notre Dame University with a scholarship to play both baseball and basketball. While still in his first year at Notre Dame, his seemingly limitless potential on the ball field led him to sign a baseball contract with the Boston Red Sox."


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 08, 2017, 08:57:05 PM
Like  Rick  who  came to  Casablanca for the waters. ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 09, 2017, 07:53:28 PM
Ike  Davis-son of  Ron--playing for Israel in WBC.  Didn;t  know was  Jewish.  Shawn Green,  Ausmus,  Kapler  were coaches  4  yrs  ago


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 10, 2017, 12:31:15 PM
I think a recent article said Ausmus is currently team manager for Israel in the WBC, and Shawn Green & Gabe Kapler are currently player-coaches (or coaches only - don't recall). I think I also saw where Ike currently has a minor league contract wit the standard spring training invite from one of the MLB squads.   


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 10, 2017, 07:10:01 PM
Yes-pix  in LA Times of those 3. Just read about  Davis playing for Israel.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 11, 2017, 08:31:57 PM
Robb, maybe you can confirm this. Saw a TV clip on how Jacques Plante became the first goalie to wear a mask in an NHL game. What shocked me was the statement that, in the 50s, teams did NOT carry a backup goalie. At least, not when they traveled. Could that be true?

Story was that (1) Jacques had been wearing a mask in practice for two years when Bathgate's shot to the face did such damage, (2) that Toe Blake had refused to let him wear a mask in a game, and (3) with his face all torn up (and no backup goaltender), Blake finally had co give in. Plante took heavy abuse from fans, players and fellow goalies for quite a while.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 11, 2017, 09:39:15 PM
Robb, maybe you can confirm this. Saw a TV clip on how Jacques Plante became the first goalie to wear a mask in an NHL game. What shocked me was the statement that, in the 50s, teams did NOT carry a backup goalie. At least, not when they traveled. Could that be true?

Story was that (1) Jacques had been wearing a mask in practice for two years when Bathgate's shot to the face did such damage, (2) that Toe Blake had refused to let him wear a mask in a game, and (3) with his face all torn up (and no backup goaltender), Blake finally had co give in. Plante took heavy abuse from fans, players and fellow goalies for quite a while.

Yes.  BOTH of those statements are true.  Plante's face was so cut up, that Blake absolutely HAD to let him wear it.  He liked it so much, he never took it off!!!

Yes, when I first was watching The NHL, each team only had one goalie on the roster.  The back-up was in The AHL, and COULDN'T relieve the hurt goalie in an NHL game.  Another player (usually a defenceman, had to put on the pads and play in an emergency.  If the back-up from the minors couldn't get to their next game on time, The short team often borrowed a goalie from their opponent's nearby minor league team.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 11, 2017, 09:51:31 PM
Robb, maybe you can confirm this. Saw a TV clip on how Jacques Plante became the first goalie to wear a mask in an NHL game. What shocked me was the statement that, in the 50s, teams did NOT carry a backup goalie. At least, not when they traveled. Could that be true?

Story was that (1) Jacques had been wearing a mask in practice for two years when Bathgate's shot to the face did such damage, (2) that Toe Blake had refused to let him wear a mask in a game, and (3) with his face all torn up (and no backup goaltender), Blake finally had co give in. Plante took heavy abuse from fans, players and fellow goalies for quite a while.

Yes.  BOTH of those statements are true.  Plante's face was so cut up, that Blake absolutely HAD to let him wear it.  He liked it so much, he never took it off!!!

With no back up goaltender, unless the injury happened right near the end of the 1st or 2nd period, SOMEONE had to play goal while Jacques went to the dressing room for medical attention. Wonder who?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 11, 2017, 09:55:35 PM
Robb, maybe you can confirm this. Saw a TV clip on how Jacques Plante became the first goalie to wear a mask in an NHL game. What shocked me was the statement that, in the 50s, teams did NOT carry a backup goalie. At least, not when they traveled. Could that be true?

Story was that (1) Jacques had been wearing a mask in practice for two years when Bathgate's shot to the face did such damage, (2) that Toe Blake had refused to let him wear a mask in a game, and (3) with his face all torn up (and no backup goaltender), Blake finally had co give in. Plante took heavy abuse from fans, players and fellow goalies for quite a while.

Yes.  BOTH of those statements are true.  Plante's face was so cut up, that Blake absolutely HAD to let him wear it.  He liked it so much, he never took it off!!!

With no back up goaltender, unless the injury happened right near the end of the 1st or 2nd period, SOMEONE had to play goal while Jacques went to the dressing room for medical attention. Wonder who?

I think it was defenceman, Doug Harvey, if I remember correctly.
[/quote]


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 11, 2017, 11:48:48 PM
Very  weird rules  in hockey.  As I recall,  the HOME  team had a back up  emergency goalie. He played for however needed him.!!  it sems he was marginal at best. But back  in day only had 9 forwards,4 defense men and 1 goalie.

They never came  out.

Ironic that Sawchuck was  killed  by another Ranger  in  a fite. IN Long Beach where all  Rangers lived.  Who  did it?  Fleming, Nevin?   No crim  charge.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 11, 2017, 11:59:28 PM
Caps have  scored 5  goals  in  10  st  home games.

Second only to  70 Bruins. Espo   had  76 goals and  Orr  102 assists.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 12, 2017, 09:33:45 AM
Long Beach was like a Ranger compound. If you wanted some privacy, guess it would be as good a place as any to live.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 12, 2017, 09:48:32 AM
Robb, as our resident ex-Canadian, always wondered if the NHL was "culture blind." Talking about French ancestry/speaking players. For example, I'm looking at  a 1954-55 NY Rangers game program and see the Rangers only had two players who have French surnames -- Camille Henry and penalty killer Aldo Guidolin.  Whereas, I suspect the Canadiens were the polar opposite.

Was this just a matter of the team's geography or, did it go deeper?

Also, for Rangers fans, see in that program (which cost 25 cents back then), the Rangers TV announcers (on WPIX) were Bud Palmer and Jimmy Powers (NY Daily News Sports Editor) who did "color".  Win Elliott and Ward Wilson did the radio on WMGM.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 12, 2017, 03:18:47 PM
Palmer--his family has  Princeton  Football stadium named after them.

Powers  terrible  did fri nite Gillette fites before Dunphy graduated to  TV.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 12, 2017, 03:22:53 PM
Teammate Ron Stewart "accidentally" killed Sawchuk pursuant to a bar fight the two "friends" engaged in. Tough day for rangers fans. Tougher day for Sawchuk.

I recall Life magazine running a spread on Sawchuk and his mangled face. He reportedly had some astronomical number of facial stitches, including skin grafts taken from his thighs to replace "face" that was no longer there.

Those were some tough dudes in 'dem 'der days.

I had no idea teams had no back-up goaltender at one time (before my time). Holy C"*&&&!

Sawchuk & Plante were arguably some of the best goaltenders ever.

Plante was known for developing and building his mask himself.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 12, 2017, 03:24:55 PM
The other Long Beach (California) had a minor league team called the Ice Dogs a few years back. I was at several of their games - fun stuff - affordable ticket prices.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 12, 2017, 04:10:58 PM

Plante was known for developing and building his mask himself.

It looked like it too. An ugly thing, to be sure. Guess it got the job done though!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 12, 2017, 04:53:46 PM
Ron Stewart yes--Sawchuck was alky I heard.  Wat police call"mutual  combat"

Goalie very stressful--recall an  article about Glennn Hall-vomited before  every game.As  did  Russell  for Celts.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 12, 2017, 06:37:32 PM
Oh man, without a mask??? Surprising they all played so long!

More from that NY Rangers program from the 1955 season. Get these MSG seat prices:

Side Loge/Arena  $4.50
End Loge  $3.50
Side Promenade  $3,50
End Promenade  $3.00
End Arena  $2.25
Mezzanine  $1.75-$2.25
End Balcony  $1.25
Side Balcony (Unreserved)   $.70

Wonder what the top game ticket price at the new MSG is today? Well over $500 I'd think, maybe approaching $1000.

P.S. The "balcony" in the old MSG was HIGH!






Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 12, 2017, 07:37:08 PM
I always wondered if the NHL was culture blind about French speaking players. 1954-55 NY Rangers only had 2 players with French surnames-Camille Henry & Bep Guidolin. I suspect the Canadiens were polar opposite.
Was this just a matter of the team's geography or, did it go deeper?[/quote]
Back before Expansion, the 6 NHL teams sponsored Junior Hockey teams all over Canada.  Even as a Midget player, my rights were owned by The Winnipeg Rangers (who were sponsored by The New York Rangers).  Had I continued with The Winnipeg Rangers in 1963-64, instead of moving to USA, I'd have been property of The Rangers when Expansion started.  In May, 1967, the sponsoring of Junior teams came to an end, with the establishment of The Junior Draft, and limitation number of professional contracts per NHL franchises.  Before 1967, the ownership of professional farm teams and sponsored Junior A teams depended upon franchise cash flow and assets, and cost of operation (with distance from franchise headquarters a factor).  The Montreal Canadiens had the largest network of minor league professional farm teams Quebec Aces AHL, Cleveland Barons AHL, a team in The CHL, WHL, EHL, IHL. The also had The Montreal Canadiens Jrs. in The QMHL, as well as sponsored scores of other teams in Quebec. Toronto sponsored the next most numerous total of Junior teams covering much of Ontario, and also having a team in each of the western Canadian Junior Leagues (BCJHL, Alberta JHL, Saskatchewan JHL, Manitoba JHL, and the highest level western junior league, The WJHL. Detroit had the next largest group of feeder teams ( with many more teams in Ontario and Western Canada than "the weak sisters", New York, Boston and Chicago).  The Rangers (Boston and Chicago) usually had one sponsored team in each of the main AAA leagues (OHA, WJHL and QMJHL), as well as one in each of the Canadian Provincial Leagues.  That is why, to this day, there are teams that still keep their affiliate names.  Kitchener (Ontario) Rangers still keep the name, and even the uniform, which had the same design as the NHL team's.  Some of those OHA, WCJHL and QJHL franchises, now in the newly-named OHL, WHL and QMJHL, changed to a new team name when they lost their NHL sponsorship.  Canadiens always had mostly French players.  Toronto and Detroit always had several on their rosters.  Boston, New York and Chicago always had only a couple, as they had a lot less access to Quebecois players.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 12, 2017, 07:50:19 PM
The NHL was NOT "culture blind".  Anglos took a lot of crap in Quebec, and Frenchies took a lot in Ontario and The Western Provinces, and Jews and Blacks took a lot everywhere.  But, after you proved yourself as a good, valuable player, and tough enough to stay in The League, your teammates would do anything for you.  But, old friends became bitter enemies while on the ice once traded to other teams.  There was a lot less prejudice against Jews and Blacks in Canada than in USA, but, it was still there.  As I stated earlier, The Ukrainians absolutely hated us Jews.  Surprisingly, The Jews were tolerated more in Catholic Quebec than in Protestant Ontario.  The largest Jewish immigration went to Montreal, and the large community speaks French, and has remained there.  We also had a very big one in Winnipeg.  But many of them have moved to L.A., Phoenix, other parts of Arizona, Las Vegas and even as far as Florida (although Florida is filled mainly with Eastern Canadians.  The Rangers had their share of French Canadians, as did Boston, because both franchises are not so far from Quebec, and so it was easier to get a lot of scouts there than to Western Canada.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 12, 2017, 08:40:18 PM
Thanks Robb.

Rod Gilbert, one of the greatest Rangers, was from Montreal. Ratelle was from a town in Quebec. I don't count Messier because (1) think of him as an Oiler first, and (2) despite the surname, don't think he is French Canadian as normally defined.

Seems to me (could be wrong) the Rangers use to have a lot of players who passed through Guelph in the juniors.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 12, 2017, 09:01:35 PM
Joe--boxing.  Bobby  "Irish "Cassidy  from Levittown.  Was   ranked at  best about  6-8  in world welter-middle wt.

Fought  on under  card  at 1st  Ali Frazier  in March  1971.   Think  he married sister of  an old girlfriend of mine.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 12, 2017, 09:25:38 PM
Joe--boxing.  Bobby  "Irish "Cassidy  from Levittown.  Was   ranked at  best about  6-8  in world welter-middle wt.

Fought  on under  card  at 1st  Ali Frazier  in March  1971.   Think  he married sister of  an old girlfriend of mine.

I remember him vaguely. Didn't know his background.

Think maybe he used to fight at the old Sunnyside Garden on Queens Blvd. Channel 5 carried a Friday nite fight card from there as well as from St. Nicholas Arena at Columbus and 66th St. in Manhattan. Chris Schenkel called a lot of those fights.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 12, 2017, 10:38:25 PM
rite--at onetime  fites  on every nite,.Sat-Boston very from la bec of timediff


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 12, 2017, 10:42:19 PM
More from 1955:

Hotel rooms at the Hotel Belvedere (stones throw from the old MSG) at 49th and 8th Ave: $4 a night for a single, $6 for a double. Stay all week for $28-$32.

First Team 1954 NHL All-Stars

G - Harry Lumley, Leafs
D-  Red Kelly, Red Wings
D- Doug Harvey, Canadiens
C - Ken Mosdell, Canadiens
RW - Gordie Howe, Red Wings
LW - Ted Lindsay, Red Wings

Second Team
G- Terry Sawchuik, Red Wings
D - Bill Gadsby, Black Hawks
D - Tim Horton, Leafs
C- Ted Kennedy, Leafs
RW - Rocket Richard, Canadiens
LW - Ed Sandford, Bruins

Don't personally remember Mosdell, Kennedy or Sandford. The rest, yes, even though only 12.
 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 13, 2017, 12:45:48 AM
Thanks Robb.

Rod Gilbert, one of the greatest Rangers, was from Montreal. Ratelle was from a town in Quebec. I don't count Messier because (1) think of him as an Oiler first, and (2) despite the surname, don't think he is French Canadian as normally defined.

Seems to me (could be wrong) the Rangers use to have a lot of players who passed through Guelph in the juniors.
You forgot Phil (Phillipe) Goyette.  Messier is a French Canadien, just not a Francophone.  The Rangers had a team in The Quebec Junior Hockey League, which funneled them some players.  Emile Francis was another French Canadien.  They had Edgar Laprade, Guy Gendron, Albert LeBrun, Albert Langlois, Leon Rochefort, Dave Balon(French Canadian family origin), Valere (Val) Fonteyne, Gilles Villemure, Florent Pilote, Bernie (Boom-Boom) Geoffrion (few years at end of career), Andre Dupont, Mike Robitaille, andre St. Pierre, Michel Parizeau, Pierre Jarry, Pierre Brind'Amour, and a lot more.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 13, 2017, 12:52:57 AM
Don't personally remember Mosdell, Kennedy or Sandford. The rest, yes, even though only 12.
Kenny Mosdell and Teeder Kennedy were all-Time greats, and in The Hall of Fame.  Sandford was just a very good player who had a great year then.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 13, 2017, 01:07:46 AM
Many great names listed that I have not heard or thought about in many moons. I do have a Dave Balon stick, from his days with Montreal.

The old Garden had an old fashioned fire escape that was used by nosebleed seat fans (that would be me) to exit after games. Today, there's no way that such a rickety and dangerous construction would be permitted for fan use.

I sure don't remember 1954 prices but for $3.00 around 1966-67, you could get a standing room only ticket behind the goal that wasn't terribly nigh up - great place to watch the game when we could find that much cash (vs. $1.50 as I recall for the cheapest seats in the house).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 13, 2017, 02:06:26 AM
The  Nedicks  in lobby was where  the late Tim Horton fot his idea for  cheap  eateries--stll  aronu  not in Cal--

Trivia (no cheating pls) --1st NHL  player --on SI  cover--hint--  1958.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 13, 2017, 02:27:40 AM
The  Nedicks  in lobby was where  the late Tim Horton for his idea for  cheap  eateries--still  around  not in Cal--

Trivia (no cheating pls) --1st NHL  player --on SI  cover--hint--  1958.

I didn't read Sports Illustrated, only The Hockey News.  My father had a subscription to it when I was young, and I had my own from 1956-72, when I moved to The Netherlands, plus bought single issues through 1985 while in Canada and USA each year, when visiting.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 13, 2017, 08:39:35 AM
Many great names listed that I have not heard or thought about in many moons. I do have a Dave Balon stick, from his days with Montreal.

The old Garden had an old fashioned fire escape that was used by nosebleed seat fans (that would be me) to exit after games. Today, there's no way that such a rickety and dangerous construction would be permitted for fan use.

I sure don't remember 1954 prices but for $3.00 around 1966-67, you could get a standing room only ticket behind the goal that wasn't terribly nigh up - great place to watch the game when we could find that much cash (vs. $1.50 as I recall for the cheapest seats in the house).

Doesn't look like the prices had gone up all that much in 13 years. Which makes sense because wages had no gone up hardly at all, and no economic inflation at that point.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 13, 2017, 08:49:16 AM
Robb, know you'll recall a real Ranger-killer. Talking about Johnny Bucyk with the Bruins. Played with Vic Stasiuk on the Uke Line centered by Bronco Horvath. Bucyk might've been the biggest winger in the game when he broke in. Him or F Mahovlich. Neither of them so big today.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 13, 2017, 10:51:40 AM
Robb, know you'll recall a real Ranger-killer. Talking about Johnny Bucyk with the Bruins. Played with Vic Stasiuk on the Uke Line centered by Bronco Horvath. Bucyk might've been the biggest winger in the game when he broke in. Him or F Mahovlich. Neither of them so big today.
Yes, I remember The Uke Line.  They used to give The Blackhawks fits.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 13, 2017, 11:22:38 AM
Bruins were bad during most of his tenure but he scored against everyone, even when the obvious marked man.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 13, 2017, 12:03:52 PM
The  Nedicks  in lobby was where  the late Tim Horton fot his idea for  cheap  eateries--stll  aronu  not in Cal--

Trivia (no cheating pls) --1st NHL  player --on SI  cover--hint--  1958.

In Canada, Tim Horton's donut shops/eateries are everywhere - coast to coast. Not half bad either....


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: jp05 on February 13, 2017, 05:43:29 PM
Could the Sports Illustrated person be Jean Beliveau of the Canadians? Or the Rocket? Or Gordie Howe?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 13, 2017, 06:54:35 PM
First guess. Beliveau.   Watch some of  his interviews on UTube. What a gentleman.  Seemed like a truly  great guy--unlike many hockey hoodlums.

  He   was the the reason that guy in penalty  box comes out after a  goal.   Once he scored 3 during one2 min penalty so rule was changed.I read.

Has some   number of Stanley Cups  10 or more. Like Russell in BB.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 13, 2017, 10:07:27 PM
First guess. Beliveau.   Watch some of  his interviews on UTube. What a gentleman.  Seemed like a truly  great guy--unlike many hockey hoodlums.

  He   was the the reason that guy in penalty  box comes out after a  goal.   Once he scored 3 during one2 min penalty so rule was changed.I read.

Has some number of Stanley Cups
  10 or more. Like Russell in BB.
He has TEN Stanley Cups???  How many Stanley Cups are there, altogether?   :D :D :D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 13, 2017, 11:01:28 PM
Would guess Howe -- he and Richard were the "faces"of the game in 1958 and, in the States, think Howe would've been the choice.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 13, 2017, 11:36:24 PM
I  agree--and  what took  to  58 to  feature  hockey. Agree  I would have guessed  Howe.  I recall the cover. SI  hates  wat it considers  poor selling  sports--like baseball on covers.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 14, 2017, 09:44:04 AM
Over the decades, SI went from a "must read" to a "never read" for me.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 14, 2017, 12:37:11 PM
I've never been an SI fan. Every time I picked s copy up, all I saw (for the most part) were stories about yachting, Armenian rules badminton, parasailing, and the like. All I was (and am) interested in are baseball, basketball, football, and hockey.

Then again, rugby is pretty cool. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 17, 2017, 08:53:28 AM
Saw a story this morning about Anaheim Ducks player Antoine Vermette getting 10 game suspension for slashing the linesman after he lost a face off. Got him good right behind the knee. You never did anything like that, did you Robb?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 17, 2017, 09:08:27 PM
Saw a story this morning about Anaheim Ducks player Antoine Vermette getting 10 game suspension for slashing the linesman after he lost a face off. Got him good right behind the knee. You never did anything like that, did you Robb?

Slash a ref with my stick???  Are you kidding.  A Jewish serious hockey player is strange enough.  A Jewish GOON????  HA!HA!HA!   You think I'm "Bad John" Brophy???  We leave that to The Irish and The Ukes!  I was 6:1 & 1/2 and had to lift weights constantly and eat constantly, to top out at 185 (wet)!  I was a skinny right wing with his own backyard rink, who had to practise every day and work like a dog to be a decent player.  I was raised by The 10 Commandments.  "Thou Shalt Respect Thy Coach!", "Thou Shalt NOT strike a Ref!", "Thou shalt NOT make Thy team shorthanded!", etc.   :D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: jp05 on February 19, 2017, 04:04:26 PM
Regarding the slashing, since the advent of helmets and, particularly in college, facemasks, the sticks are carried higher and I think the players have less respect of other players and, now it seem, the on-ice officials. The facemasks and modern pads make the players seem invincible, at least to themselves. The pads from the 60's and 70's were very primitive and not all the protective. You get hit by a shot, or a hard board check, you had a bruise. After a few weeks, you had many bruises!

I'm in favor of the protection (my grandkids play) but the youth coaches have to teach the kids to control their stick.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 19, 2017, 09:27:07 PM
Regarding the slashing, since the advent of helmets and, particularly in college, facemasks, the sticks are carried higher and I think the players have less respect of other players and, now it seem, the on-ice officials. The facemasks and modern pads make the players seem invincible, at least to themselves. The pads from the 60's and 70's were very primitive and not all the protective. You get hit by a shot, or a hard board check, you had a bruise. After a few weeks, you had many bruises!

I'm in favor of the protection (my grandkids play) but the youth coaches have to teach the kids to control their stick.
I played from 1951-52 through 1963-64, so I know about bruises, dislocations, and I lost 2 adult teeth.  Luckily, there is such a thing as dental implants!  ;)  We had very little padding compared to now, no helmet (until 1964-65) (I just missed the mandatory period - I didn't like helmets, as they obstructed some of the field of vision), and goalie masks.  Yes, kids are less aware of the danger today.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 20, 2017, 12:06:56 AM
Know 2 retired  players--Ryan  Vandenbusch and   Adam   Burt  . Both are like  walking  surgery survivors.  Ryan says they are all tipped off wen drug testing is coming.  Ryan bizarrely had 10  goals in his career-a real  goon-- and a hat trick.  30%  of goalson a hat trick. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Burt is now a preacher  in NYC.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 23, 2017, 07:36:07 PM
Didn't realize that rinks were smaller in the 50s and 60s, even into the 70s (Buffalo).  More like 185' x '85 than today's standard 200' x 85. Shorter surface between blue lines.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 23, 2017, 11:14:48 PM
Boston garden  was always  smaller.  By  moving  out goal line and  blue lines has scoring  increased?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 07, 2017, 08:58:52 PM
Read an article on the Phila Flyers "Broad Street Bullies" phase in the 1970s. Despite the notoriety of Dave Schulz and Moose Dupont, supposedly the most feared member of those teams was LW Dave "The Hound" Kelly. Supposedly, for the rapid fire punches he would throw in fights.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 08, 2017, 08:45:28 PM
Read an article on the Phila Flyers "Broad Street Bullies" phase in the 1970s. Despite the notoriety of Dave Schulz and Moose Dupont, supposedly the most feared member of those teams was LW Dave "The Hound" Kelly. Supposedly, for the rapid fire punches he would throw in fights.
That fighter was "Bob" Kelly.  They had another goon/enforcer named "Dave" Schultz.  You blended the two.  Schultz was just an uncontrollable brawler.  Kelly was an expert fighter, with super boxing skills.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 08, 2017, 09:16:26 PM
Read an article on the Phila Flyers "Broad Street Bullies" phase in the 1970s. Despite the notoriety of Dave Schulz and Moose Dupont, supposedly the most feared member of those teams was LW Dave "The Hound" Kelly. Supposedly, for the rapid fire punches he would throw in fights.
That fighter was "Bob" Kelly.  They had another goon/enforcer named "Dave" Schultz.  You blended the two.  Schultz was just an uncontrollable brawler.  Kelly was an expert fighter, with super boxing skills.

One quote I saw was that Kelly could throw 30 punches while his opponent got off one. That's gotta be an exageration but still .,...


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on March 08, 2017, 10:11:07 PM
Vandenbusch  ruined the career  ofa 25 yr old  up  and comer--nowan announcer.

I askedRyan wat is was like  to  be a lefty-- I meant in hockey--he answered how it helped his fiting.  Amazed  by 10 goals in career,and ONE  hat trick.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 15, 2017, 06:29:11 PM
Robb, watched Game 2 of 1st round of Stanley Cup playoffs last nite. Rangers@Canadiens. Habs won in OT after tieing ganme up in final 40 sec of 3rd period. Helluva game. Series now 1-1 as they move to MSG.

I was struck by how few French sounding names are on the Montreal team. Looked up their 2016-17 roster and of 41 players who dressed this season, only 5 had a Quebec background. I know the NHL is overrun with Americans and Europeans but ... thought, wow. Wonder what percentage of 1950s Habs teams were made up of local guys?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 15, 2017, 08:06:02 PM
I was struck by how few French sounding names are on the Montreal team. Looked up their 2016-17 roster and of 41 players who dressed this season, only 5 had a Quebec background. I know the NHL is overrun with Americans & Europeans but wow. Wonder what percentage of 1950s Habs teams were made up of local guys?
Probably 2/3 to 3/4 were French Canadians, and a handful more were English Canadians who were Quebeckers (Quebeceres) who spoke both languages.  There was NO translation back then to English.  The players usually knew French fairly well, or they started a crash course right away.  Back in those days a lot of English Canadians took French in School.  I did.  My family members in Montr?al in the 1940s and 1950s were Fracophones.  They didn't speak English all that well.  The large Jewish population there since the 1870s learned mainly French and French first.  They were Yiddish and French speaking. There was a big reason for that.  Before the Junior Draft started in 1964, the 6 NHL teams sponsored all high-level Junior teams, and Les Canadiens had the most 85% scattered all over Qu?bec, and the French half of New Brunswick and the French area of Manitoba (centered around St. Boniface), and some in the English half of New Brunswick, as well as Nova Scotia, and with just a few, but highest level teams in each English-speaking province.  They sponsored hundreds of teams, and when Midget players graduated to Junior B, AAA, and finally Major Junior A, their NHL rights were owned by Les Habs.  So, they had a better feeding system than The Rangers, Boston and Chicago, who had 20 to 30 teams.  Toronto and Detroit had about 60 and 55.  So, those 3 teams, who won The Stanley Cup much more than the other 3, had a large advantage.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 15, 2017, 08:56:05 PM
Thanks for the background. Of the 5 with a Quebec background on this year's team, NONE are players of note. The two big guns are LW Max Pacioretty (from Connecticut) with 35 goals and huge (6'4, 235) D Shea Weber from British Columbia.

When I think of non-French surnames on the Canadiens, think first and foremost of Doug Harvey. Born and raised (and died) in Montreal. Then, Ken Dryden (from Hamilton). Dryden, btw, was drafted in '64 by the Bruins who traded him that very day to Montreal.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 15, 2017, 09:19:28 PM
I think of Dickie  Moore and  Doug Harvey.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 16, 2017, 12:03:52 AM
I think of Dickie  Moore and  Doug Harvey.

Doug Harvey was b-lingual.  Moore had a harder time with French but, at that time you had to learn it.  I don;t think Dryden did.  It's even more important to speak French in Qu?bec City.  Virtually no one speaks English there, unlike Montr?al, where 40% of the 3 Million speak English.  Most of Les Nordiques were French Canadians, but those few who weren't definitely learned French.  The Russians who play Juniors in La Belle Province learn French, then learn English later.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 16, 2017, 08:52:59 AM
Trivia question I stumbled upon:

Of the original six NHL teams, name the two of them who played in venues that used a high-pitched, ear-splitting siren to announce the end of periods.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 16, 2017, 11:13:50 AM
Trivia question I stumbled upon:

Of the original six NHL teams, name the two of them who played in venues that used a high-pitched, ear-splitting siren to announce the end of periods.
I thought I remember that ALL had a loud siren at the end of periods.  I don't remember periods ending any other way.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 16, 2017, 12:02:58 PM
Trivia question I stumbled upon:

Of the original six NHL teams, name the two of them who played in venues that used a high-pitched, ear-splitting siren to announce the end of periods.
I thought I remember that ALL had a loud siren at the end of periods.  I don't remember periods ending any other way.

At least one person's take: "Along with one other Original Six indoor ice hockey arena, the Boston Garden, the Montreal Forum used a high-pitched siren to signal the end of an NHL game's period — the siren would later be re-installed in the Forum's successor facility, the Bell Centre (and still in use there), much as the TD Garden in Boston inherited the lower-pitched Garden's siren."

Maybe there's a technical difference between a siren signaling the period's end, as opposed to a horn.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 16, 2017, 12:57:26 PM
Trivia question I stumbled upon:

Of the original six NHL teams, name the two of them who played in venues that used a high-pitched, ear-splitting siren to announce the end of periods.
I thought I remember that ALL had a loud siren at the end of periods.  I don't remember periods ending any other way.

At least one person's take: "Along with one other Original Six indoor ice hockey arena, the Boston Garden, the Montreal Forum used a high-pitched siren to signal the end of an NHL game's period — the siren would later be re-installed in the Forum's successor facility, the Bell Centre (and still in use there), much as the TD Garden in Boston inherited the lower-pitched Garden's siren."

Maybe there's a technical difference between a siren signaling the period's end, as opposed to a horn.

Apparently so.  The horn is shorter.  The siren keeps going for some seconds more.  I DO remember the siren at the Montr?al Forum lasting longer than the others.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 16, 2017, 02:57:45 PM
Robb, Doesn't have the same effect as when they were perennial winners.

Read also that Canadiens have only lost the Stanley Cup twice on their home ice -- 1928 to the Rangers, and 1989 to Calgary.

Also surprised (shows how I'm oriented to earlier times) that Larry Robinson always tops Harvey as top Habs defenseman.





Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 16, 2017, 03:45:43 PM
Robb, Doesn't have the same effect as when they were perennial winners.

Read also that Canadiens have only lost the Stanley Cup twice on their home ice -- 1928 to the Rangers, and 1989 to Calgary.

Also surprised (shows how I'm oriented to earlier times) that Larry Robinson always tops Harvey as top Habs defenseman.

I saw both of their whole careers.  I'd say Harvey was better.  I'm watching a super game now between Minnesota and St. Louis.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 16, 2017, 05:53:10 PM
Robb, Doesn't have the same effect as when they were perennial winners.

Read also that Canadiens have only lost the Stanley Cup twice on their home ice -- 1928 to the Rangers, and 1989 to Calgary.

Also surprised (shows how I'm oriented to earlier times) that Larry Robinson always tops Harvey as top Habs defenseman.

I saw both of their whole careers.  I'd say Harvey was better.  I'm watching a super game now between Minnesota and St. Louis.

I agree. Robinson was definitely a lot bigger, but ... same results.

How do you watch over there, if I might ask?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 17, 2017, 01:07:37 AM
Robb, Doesn't have the same effect as when they were perennial winners.
I agree. Robinson was definitely a lot bigger, but ... same results.

How do you watch over there, if I might ask?
When I'm in The Netherlands, Denmark, and Munich, I watch mostly at friends' houses.  They have NASC (North American Sports Channel).  The one in Denmark (Copenhagen) is a Canadian expat, who married a Dane.  My eldest sister also married a Dane.  But he doesn't care about ice hockey.  But, One of my best friends in Denmark comes from Western Jutland, and a suburb of the city in which The Danish National Ice Hockey Programme is headquartered.  He is friendly with a few of the best Junior players, all of whom have played in the Swedish pro leagues, and some have come to North America to play in the pro leagues there, and even The NHL.  When i;m there, in Herning, I sometimes meet some of the players, or sometimes I attend Swedish Elite League games in Malmo or Goteborg, or Linkoping.  I've met some of The Danish players there.  When I don't have friends nearby to watch on their sports channels, I watch online streams, but don't buy the game. I just zoom in to expand the small "example" screen showing the game to full screen, and watch the game on my large laptop computer.  The picture is not very sharp, due to having expanded it.  But, the audio is fine, and I can see what's happening well enough.  I don't want to spend so much money on that because I watch hundreds of games.  It would be expensive for me to buy a sports channel in all 4 places where I live, and am only in each place a few months each year.  But, I see most important games at friends' houses, and they're glad to have me there.  I'm like their own personal analyst and commentator (I'm better at explaining the game than many of the TV analysts, and my friends can ask me questions).  Only my Canadian friend doesn't need that, but I remind him of "home".


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 17, 2017, 08:40:51 AM
Very inventive and, wow, the world really is shrinking.

30 years ago in England I wouldn't have had any chance of seeing US sports (even the vaunted Super Bowl) unless I drove many miles to some US airbase, of which there were none where I lived in Gloucestershire. The Sky Channel was just starting up when I left.  Choice was BBC 1, 2 and 3, along with ITV. Great for football (soccer) which I grew to follow closely. How could you not?



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 17, 2017, 09:18:23 PM
The Forum in  LA  (Inglewood)  was named  by  Canadian Cooke after Montreal. Now just music-Lakers been gone 17 yrs.

Dont think its at all  like i  the  realforum..  Wen opened in 66-67--the staff wore  Roman  outfits--boys Roman suits and girls short skirts.  No togas. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 17, 2017, 11:12:55 PM
The Forum in  LA  (Inglewood)  was named  by  Canadian Cooke after Montreal. Now just music-Lakers been gone 17 yrs.
Dont think its at all  like i  the  realforum..  Wen opened in 66-67--the staff wore  Roman  outfits--boys Roman suits and girls short skirts.  No togas. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Jack Kent Cooke, the door-to-door encyclopedia salesman!  He made one very funny quip in his life.  When The Kings had suffered from poor attendance after their first 6 or 7 years, and someone reminded him that there were over half a million transplanted Canadians living in The Los Angeles Metro Area, he answered: "They all left Canada because they hate hockey!"


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 18, 2017, 08:17:35 AM
Cooke also owned the Washington Redskins for decades (during their multiple Super Bowl appearances/wins). Gotta credit him with building the current Redskins Stadium with his own money.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 18, 2017, 12:22:26 PM
Had one interaction with Cooke. Wen I had a Laker seat  with obstructed view  by the 24 second clock,, I wrote to  him personally complaining.

Damn if he didn't  write back  personally,  apologized and sent couple  free tix.

I never forgot --has to be 1971. ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 22, 2017, 09:59:13 PM
Robb--what does  the H  inside the C  on Montreals  jersey  stand for?  Habitants?

3  relatively new hockey  things--when did they start?   


Scorer  skates  by bench  &  touches   gloves after goal.

Keeping track oh "hits"  and blocks. Yrs ago I dont recall many blocks.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 22, 2017, 10:52:54 PM
I'm trying to recall how 1950s goaltenders played (picturing Gump Worsley in my mind with the Rangers). When did the butterfly style and modern goaltending come into play. Did Plante and Worsley just play a combo of standing up, and being in a crouch? Can't temember. What were the pads like back then as opposed to now? Some of these really BIG goalies practically take up the entire cage with their size.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 22, 2017, 11:36:17 PM
Rite Joe--some  of these  goalies are  6-6.

No water on top  on net   &  no  movable net  now  --gee--so  dangerous  then.

Why goalies had problems--Sawchuk  -drunk--Hall--puked before every  game etc.

I remember a drawing of Sawchuk  in Life  or SI--showing all  his  suture  marks.  Amazing  with  Richard, Geoffrion,  Howe, Beliveau. How goalies  could do it.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 23, 2017, 01:47:33 AM
Robb--what does  the H  inside the C  on Montreals  jersey  stand for?  Habitants?

3  relatively new hockey  things--when did they start?   

Scorer  skates  by bench  &  touches   gloves after goal.

Keeping track oh "hits"  and blocks. Yrs ago I don't recall many blocks.
C stands for"Canadien", H for "Habitantes"

Touching gloves after scoring a goal is maybe 20-25 years old custom, now.

There are a lot more blocked shots now than before the players' pads and protection has been bigger and better.  I think they started keeping track of hits and blocked shots since the early 1980s or late 1970s.  "Hits" are NOT ALL hits (initiated contact). but only those that have an impact on the play (freeing up the puck, allowing a teammate to get control of the puck, impeding an opponent from making a play, etc.).  Hits that take the hitter out of position to impact the play, or that are inconsequential aren't tallied.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 23, 2017, 09:13:42 AM
Glenn Hall was apparently the first to master the "butterfly" style of goaltending.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 23, 2017, 01:13:38 PM
I'm trying to recall how 1950s goaltenders played (picturing Gump Worsley in my mind with the Rangers). When did the butterfly style and modern goaltending come into play. Did Plante and Worsley just play a combo of standing up, and being in a crouch? Can't remember. What were the pads like back then as opposed to now? Some of these really BIG goalies practically take up the entire cage with their size.
The pads were much, much smaller back then.  Good thing our one-piece wooden sticks couldn't propel the puck over 100 mph. like now.  Goalies would have been killed.  Talking about the immobile net frames, on a drive towards the net in 1963 (my first year of Juniors) , I was pushed down by a defenceman, and slid, head first, into the goal post.  I smacked it hard, and was knocked unconscious (they told me - for some extended seconds).  At that time almost all skaters wore no helmets.  Also, there was no "concussion protocol".  We bit our lips and went right back in.  I sat out a few shifts, and went back in, and played the rest of the game.  Maybe that's why I had such memory problems, starting in my '50s, and have been a "silly person" since then?  But that doesn't explain why I was silly before that!  :D

I seem to remember The Butterfly style starting in the late '60s.  But that was a long time ago, and I wasn't looking at a calendar to keep track.  Yes, Jacques Plante and Worsley and Glenn Hall, and others, played a combination of standing up and crouching.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 23, 2017, 02:13:16 PM
I  recall  hits  and blocks  only   since the  strike. Certainly  gets a lot more play  now on  in and post game  TV discussion.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 23, 2017, 03:38:28 PM
I  recall  hits  and blocks  only   since the  strike. Certainly  gets a lot more play  now on  in and post game  TV discussion.
I'm pretty sure hits and blocks have been tabulated since the 1980s, but they aren't primary stats, so, they are only on the detailed stats pages.  Hits don't mean much, as the team who is chasing the puck does most of the hitting.  So more hitting usually means more losing.  More blocks may also mean more losing, when a team with bad team defence is being barraged like in a shooting gallery.  The only hockey stats that mean anything when looked at out of context are wins and losses.  Even overall goals for and goals against may not reflect wins and losses if a lot of the goals scored and allowed come when games have already been decided.  A lot of them happen when the team behind has pulled their goalie at the end of a game to get the man advantage to try and tie the game. Lots of empty-net goals are scored, even 2 or 3 in the same game.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 23, 2017, 04:20:45 PM
The days of goalies the size of Grant Fuhr or Andy Moog are long gone I think. They mighta been the last of the "small but quick" gpaltender being valued over 6'5 guys (of which there are, what, maybe a half dozen in the NHL now)?

Wonder if consideration to enlarging the goal is in the future?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 23, 2017, 04:37:21 PM
Jimmy ? on Wings  is small.

Robb-wow--yes  guys would  get killed  now-by the posts. -so  big.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 23, 2017, 05:12:35 PM
The days of goalies the size of Grant Fuhr or Andy Moog are long gone I think. They mighta been the last of the "small but quick" goaltender being valued over 6'5 guys (of which there are, what, maybe a half dozen in the NHL now)?

Wonder if consideration to enlarging the goal is in the future?
Widening the goal has been brought up in annual meeting for the past 10 years, but been voted down every time.  I think that enough goals are being scored.  I absolutely think that the 1980s/early 1990s wide open, no defence hockey, in The NHL was horrible.  And, as  a result, most fans (non-players) think that skaters like Wayne Gretzky and Jarri Kurri and Paul Coffey were much better than they really were.  I watched most of Gordie Howe's career and all of Gretzky's and Lemieux's and Bobby Hull's and Doug Harvey's and Orr's.  Gretzky wasn't close to Howe, and Lemieux was better than Gretzky.  Stats are very misleading.  Were ALL the goaltenders in the 1910s and 1920s and 2000s better than all those in the 1980s and early '90s???

For me, team sports are better when there is a balance of offence and defence.  Currently, there is a good balance.  I wouldn't give advantages to scoring.  That just waters down the competitiveness in the game and the value of each goal scored.  Teams scoring 5-6 goals a game instead of 3 makes a big difference.  I didn't like it 35 years ago, and wouldn't like it now.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 23, 2017, 07:21:48 PM
I totally understand what you're saying Robb. Those high scoring games really got out of hand. Didn't look like the same sport.

What I'm seeing in the playoffs now is that even strength goals are all being scored very close in. Big scrums in front of the goal and all of a sudden the puck is in the net! Most goals being scored on slap shots or long shots in general are all PP goals. Maybe it's always been this way and I just don't recall it accurately. Especially in the tense playoff atmosphere.

Seems to me in the Original Six days of the 50s, you'd see a helluva lot more free skating shots/goals than you see now. I guess that can mainly be attributed to the defensive "systems" being employed. First team to go that stifling, defensive trapping I recall was the NJ Devils some years ago and its mushroomed from there.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 23, 2017, 07:32:04 PM
Just recalled--  Jimmy  Howard


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 23, 2017, 07:43:11 PM
Just recalled--  Jimmy  Howard

Definitely!

I think in general, though, there's a parallel to MLB. Take the SS position, used to be little guys (except for Marty Marion) like Rizzuto, Willie Miranda, Aparicio, even up to the days of Wills, Ozzie, etc. Then Cal Ripken came along and you've got a ton of big guys who can thump it! Think the "old thinking" was you needed a quick little guy who could range far and eat up potential hits. No longer the case. Same with hockey goalies. The old thinking was probably that big, bulky goaltenders wouldn't have the quickness/reaction time required.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 23, 2017, 10:04:09 PM
I totally understand what you're saying Robb. Those high scoring games really got out of hand. Didn't look like the same sport.

What I'm seeing in the playoffs now is that even strength goals are all being scored very close in. Big scrums in front of the goal and all of a sudden the puck is in the net! Most goals being scored on slap shots or long shots in general are all PP goals. Maybe it's always been this way and I just don't recall it accurately. Especially in the tense playoff atmosphere.

Seems to me in the Original Six days of the 50s, you'd see a helluva lot more free skating shots/goals than you see now. I guess that can mainly be attributed to the defensive "systems" being employed. First team to go that stifling, defensive trapping I recall was the NJ Devils some years ago and its mushroomed from there.
It's true that there is now a lot less room on the ice to execute plays.  That is a combination of the defences and the fact that the players are much bigger and much faster skaters.  There is less room every level up you go, as the skaters get faster and the defences are more complex.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 23, 2017, 10:41:20 PM
Whatever the nitpicking, fact is these Stanley Cup playoff games have beeen nail-bitingly terrific. Two more OT games tonight with Washington eliminating Toronto and Ottawa closing out Boston.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 30, 2017, 10:54:29 AM
Whatever the nitpicking, fact is these Stanley Cup playoff games have been nail-bitingly terrific. Two more OT games tonight with Washington eliminating Toronto and Ottawa closing out Boston.
This season's 1st Round has set a new record for OT games (by 3), and, I believe that they also set a record for 1-goal games.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 30, 2017, 11:45:01 AM
Robb, your reply to Dr on what the H stood for --- Habitantes.

Is that "Inhabitants" translation just to be taken at face value or is reading between the lines required (i.e., a bit of a poliitical statement from Quebec that French settlers (inhabitants) were here first)?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 30, 2017, 01:48:20 PM
Robb--noticed  Doc  Emrick  started   recently  differentiating assists--primary  assist  (asopposed to secondary).   In hoops we would make fun of all the assists in hockey-- when we would  miss a  lay-up , but a teammate  would  tap it in--"a hockey assist."

Saw  last  nite  Pitt-Wash----contact with a goalie was  allowed--"inadvertant contact" & not interference.  Never heard that before. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 30, 2017, 01:57:45 PM
Robb, your reply to Dr on what the H stood for --- Habitantes.

Is that "Inhabitants" translation just to be taken at face value or is reading between the lines required (i.e., a bit of a political statement from Quebec that French settlers (inhabitants) were here first)?
Habitantes means "Inhabitants" in French.  So as a team name, it means "French Canadiens" or Quebecers (Quebeckers).  Their team name, after all is "Canadiens".  Habitantes as a synonym for  "Canadiens" is analogous to calling The St. Louis Cardinals "The Redbirds", or The Pittsburgh Pirates "The Bucs" (short for Buccaneers), or The Philadelphia Athletics "The White Elephants"


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 30, 2017, 02:14:49 PM
Robb--noticed  Doc  Emrick  started   recently  differentiating assists--primary  assist  (asopposed to secondary).   In hoops we would make fun of all the assists in hockey-- when we would  miss a  lay-up , but a teammate  would  tap it in--"a hockey assist."

Saw  last  nite  Pitt-Wash----contact with a goalie was  allowed--"inadvertant contact" & not interference.  Never heard that before. 

The primary assist is the pass to the man who scores, when he wouldn't have been able to score if the pass hadn't had been there that quickly, or right on his tape.  A secondary assist is given when that first pass was instrumental in getting the primary assist pass to the goal scorer.  If I make a pass to a teammate, who stickhandles around 2 or 3 players and THEN sends a feeder pass to a  teammate who slaps it past the goalie, I SHOULDN'T  get a secondary assist, as my pass was NOT instrumental in getting the puck to the goal scorer, as THAT work was done completely by the man who passed the puck to the goal scorer.  If I had made a quick tape-to-tape pass to a teammate, who immediately sends the puck to a 3rd teammate, who slaps in a one-timer, or tips a shot in from the man to whom I sent the puck, I will get a secondary assist.

"inadvertant contact" is incidental contact with the goalie, that was not initiated purposefully by the offensive player, AND does NOT interfere with the goaltender's ability to make a play on a puck headed for the net (make an attempt to stop it from crossing the goal line into the net).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 30, 2017, 02:23:31 PM
Incidental  it was  called I got  it wrong.  Thanx.

My point about assists was  it is   recently  that  an attempt  has been made to  differentiate  primary from secondary.  Only  one assist in BB.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 30, 2017, 03:10:44 PM
Incidental  it was  called I got  it wrong.  Thanx.

My point about assists was  it is   recently  that  an attempt  has been made to  differentiate  primary from secondary.  Only  one assist in BB.

What is "BB"?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 30, 2017, 03:12:21 PM
Thanks, Robb. In earlier discussions about the importance of Canadiens players' ability to speak/learn French, the same apparently is true with the Barcelona football team. Players there are expected to learn the Catalan dialect.

In contrast, every time Yankees pitcher Tanaka gets a mound visit, his interpreter trots out too.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 30, 2017, 03:37:31 PM
Thanks, Robb. In earlier discussions about the importance of Canadiens players' ability to speak/learn French, the same apparently is true with the Barcelona football team. Players there are expected to learn the Catalan dialect.

In contrast, every time Yankees pitcher Tanaka gets a mound visit, his interpreter trots out too.
Baseball is slow and boring enough.  Now they have non-players, non-managers/coaches and non game officials stepping out onto the field during a game???  That's ridiculous, and shouldn't be allowed!  They should have to have a coach (who performs ALL functions as the coach) be the translator.  They should have to have a Japanese speaker, who also is fluent in English be a full-time 3rd base, 1st Base, or, in this case, pitching coach.  He'd have to run out of the bull pen or dugout to talk to his pitcher.  They shouldn't allow non-traditional team employees to enter the play area and talk in a meeting. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 30, 2017, 04:00:16 PM
Robb, You'll get a kick out of this. Not sure which publication but by a guy named Jose Arangure from 3-4 years ago when Ichiro Suzuki was playing for the Yanks.

"it's custom for each Japanese player on a team to have their own translator. The Yankees have three Japanese players who are likely to be on the active roster: Tanaka, Ichiro and Hiroki Kuroda, and each of them has their own personal translator.

For two weeks, the former Yankee Hideki Matsui was in spring training camp as an instructor, and his longtime translator Roger Kahlon was also in attendance. The Yankees almost had enough Japanese translators to fill out a starting rotation.

Former Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen had a point when he complained several years ago that teams go out of their way to please Japanese players while ignoring Latino players who don't speak English fluently. The Yankees don't have anyone on staff as an official Spanish translator. Sometimes that task falls on a coach or a teammate, or if the team is lucky, a bilingual media relations employee.

Technically, translators are employed by the team, in this case the Yankees, although most high-profile Japanese players have it written into their contract that the team will provide someone to translate for them. This may somewhat explain the disparity as to why Japanese players have translators while Spanish speaking players don't. Most Japanese players are signed as high-profile established free agents, while most Latinos are signed as underage amateurs with little or no bargaining power to ask for a translator."


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 30, 2017, 06:54:36 PM
BB=hoops. Can have   2 assists  in baseball.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 01, 2017, 06:41:11 PM
Hockey  has  some very  cool  traditions.  The  handshake line after  the  final  game,  3 Stars of the game  (dont see it in playoffs), the way they warm up  to start the game--both teams come out at same time  and  knock the pucks onto the ice.

Baseball  has no handshakes (not allowed),  basketball  and football just casual informal  mingling, if they choose. 



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 05, 2017, 11:38:28 PM
Robb-why is a soft,  shot--that happens  to  be on goal,   called  shot on goal, but  a blast  that the  goalie  does not see that hits the post or cross bar  NOT a shot on goal.  I get it--if a a  save it  is a  shot on goal,  but  a blast off the post?  Why not?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 06, 2017, 02:19:38 AM
Robb-why is a soft,  shot--that happens  to  be on goal,   called  shot on goal, but  a blast  that the  goalie  does not see that hits the post or cross bar  NOT a shot on goal.  I get it--if a a  save it  is a  shot on goal,  but  a blast off the post?  Why not?
Because it did not need to be saved (it COULDN'T possibly have gone into the goal - proven by the fact that it DIDN'T).  Therefore, it wasn't a possible goal. Had it hit the inside of the post and its carom had put it on a trajectory that WOULD have sent it across the Goal Line, but it was caught by the goalie BEFORE it crossed that line, it would have been called "a shot on goal".   A shot has to have the possibility to cross the goal line without having its trajectory changed, to make it a "shot on goal".


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 06, 2017, 08:35:46 AM
Most "under-appreciated" All-Star of the 50s and 60s era?

My vote goes to Norm Ullman. Did everything for Red Wings but overshadowed by Howe, Lindsay, Delvecchio, etc. Superb forechecker and stickhandler (in addition to excellent goal scorer).

Still alive and kicking in his 80s now. Seemed like he played forever (well over 20 years, and still at a high level into his 40s). When I say "under-appreciated" I mean you don't really hear his name tossed around like those other Red Wings of his time (or excellent players from other teams who weren't as good as Norm).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 06, 2017, 11:04:22 AM
Most "under-appreciated" All-Star of the 50s and 60s era?

My vote goes to Norm Ullman. Did everything for Red Wings but overshadowed by Howe, Lindsay, Delvecchio, etc. Superb forechecker and stickhandler (in addition to excellent goal scorer).

Still alive and kicking in his 80s now. Seemed like he played forever (well over 20 years, and still at a high level into his 40s). When I say "under-appreciated" I mean you don't really hear his name tossed around like those other Red Wings of his time (or excellent players from other teams who weren't as good as Norm).
I agree.  He played very well also for Toronto in his late 30s, and even played 2 years for his home town, Edmonton, in The WHA, at the end of his career, well into his 40s.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 06, 2017, 11:24:35 AM
Norm is  not happy   :'( :'( :'( :'(about Oilers giving up 3 goals in  last  3  minutes and losing  in OT to Ducks  last nite.

Ducks pulled goalie for last 3 minutes.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 06, 2017, 11:53:11 AM
Norm is  not happy   :'( :'( :'( :'(about Oilers giving up 3 goals in  last  3  minutes and losing  in OT to Ducks  last nite.
Ducks pulled goalie for last 3 minutes.
Yes, that loss was unfortunate.  I'll hate to see Edmonton or Ottawa get knocked out.  The Canadian teams have such a disadvantage competing, due to weakness of The Canadian Dollar, higher income tax rates, and cold weather.  The best players want to play in USA.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 06, 2017, 12:35:59 PM
I hate to see that too (Canadian clubs hurting), even though I have no Canadian ties. I mean, this is the national sport of Canada.

I'll admit to being biased against most of the expansion franchises south of the "Rust Belt." I mean, Detroit might as well be a Canadian city (not that they might want to claim it in its current condition). Just a bridge away from Ontario, shared radio (CKLW), etc. Buffalo, the same.

Colorado, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, and Philly sit OK with me, as do Chi, NY metro area teams (Rangers, Devils and Islanders), and Boston. Ambivalent about Washington, St. Louis and Columbus.

Teams in places like Miami, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Carolina, Dallas seem wrong to me. Never got used to Western hockey in AZ and CA and don't even view Vancouver in the same vein as the rest of the Canadian clubs. Not much logic, I'll admit, just how I feel.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 06, 2017, 12:46:28 PM
Detroit  may  be the  US  NHL  city  NORTH  of Canada.

Agree  Joe--but  add Vegas  to  the  Sunbelt  of the NHL. Expansion--next year I think.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 06, 2017, 08:36:44 PM
Detroit  may  be the  US  NHL  city  NORTH  of Canada.

Agree  Joe--but  add Vegas  to  the  Sunbelt  of the NHL. Expansion--next year I think.
Disgusting when The Maritimes, Saskatchewan(Saskatoon & Regina), Hamilton, and The City of Quebec have no NHL team, and there are 2 NHL teams in The Tropics, and 2 in the desert!   >:(


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 06, 2017, 08:51:25 PM
Detroit  may  be the  US  NHL  city  NORTH  of Canada.

Agree  Joe--but  add Vegas  to  the  Sunbelt  of the NHL. Expansion--next year I think.

Doctor, Minneapolis is a good bit further north in the USA than Detroit is. Actually, the Wild play in St. Paul to be technical. 

I forgot about Vegas. Don't like it for football, a lot less for hockey.

Robb, Quebec City would already have their name (loved the "Aces" name; still used?).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 06, 2017, 09:09:09 PM
Detroit  may  be the  US  NHL  city  NORTH  of Canada.

Agree  Joe--but  add Vegas  to  the  Sunbelt  of the NHL. Expansion--next year I think.

Doctor, Minneapolis is a good bit further north in the USA than Detroit is. Actually, the Wild play in St. Paul to be technical. 

I forgot about Vegas. Don't like it for football, a lot less for hockey.

Robb, Quebec City would already have their name (loved the "Aces" name; still used?).
No, No Nordiques and no Aces.  No pro team.  Only Major Junior A (Les Remparts).  Did you know that The Montreal Canadiens bought The Quebec Aces to obtain the ownership of Jean Beliveau's rights, as he had previously refused to sign with them for 4 years before that.  For many years after that, The Canadiens had the top 2 minor league teams, The Quebec Aces and The Cleveland Barons.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 06, 2017, 09:38:39 PM
Detroit  may  be the  US  NHL  city  NORTH  of Canada.

Agree  Joe--but  add Vegas  to  the  Sunbelt  of the NHL. Expansion--next year I think.

Doctor, Minneapolis is a good bit further north in the USA than Detroit is. Actually, the Wild play in St. Paul to be technical.  

I forgot about Vegas. Don't like it for football, a lot less for hockey.

Robb, Quebec City would already have their name (loved the "Aces" name; still used?).
No, No Nordiques and no Aces.  No pro team.  Only Major Junior A (Les Remparts).  Did you know that The Montreal Canadiens bought The Quebec Aces to obtain the ownership of Jean Beliveau's rights, as he had previously refused to sign with them for 4 years before that.  For many years after that, The Canadiens had the top 2 minor league teams, The Quebec Aces and The Cleveland Barons.

Robb, While I did correctly associate Beliveau in my mind with the Aces, I did not know anything about the Montreal background you laid out! I guess Jean was being well paid by Quebec. I especially liked the Aces sweaters with the playing cards in the team logo.

Think some (a lot?) of the Flyers success around 1970 had to do with their association with Quebec City. They seemed to have a very good pipeline of French-Canadian players coming up from their team there.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 07, 2017, 01:07:50 AM
Joe--just  recall  pop  telling  me as a  kid  that  u  went  South  from  Detroit  to Can. Told me  it wasonly place in US u could do that.


Robb-agree-very  silly with teams in Miami, Tampa, Dallas,Phoenix,   San Jose, Anaheim etc.   But the almighty $$. It was 100  degrees  yesterday in Phoenix--but no  game of course.




Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 07, 2017, 03:03:13 AM
Detroit  may  be the  US  NHL  city  NORTH  of Canada.

Agree  Joe--but  add Vegas  to  the  Sunbelt  of the NHL. Expansion--next year I think.

Doctor, Minneapolis is a good bit further north in the USA than Detroit is. Actually, the Wild play in St. Paul to be technical.  

I forgot about Vegas. Don't like it for football, a lot less for hockey.

Robb, Quebec City would already have their name (loved the "Aces" name; still used?).
No, No Nordiques and no Aces.  No pro team.  Only Major Junior A (Les Remparts).  Did you know that The Montreal Canadiens bought The Quebec Aces to obtain the ownership of Jean Beliveau's rights, as he had previously refused to sign with them for 4 years before that.  For many years after that, The Canadiens had the top 2 minor league teams, The Quebec Aces and The Cleveland Barons.

Robb, While I did correctly associate Beliveau in my mind with the Aces, I did not know anything about the Montreal background you laid out! I guess Jean was being well paid by Quebec. I especially liked the Aces sweaters with the playing cards in the team logo.

Think some (a lot?) of the Flyers success around 1970 had to do with their association with Quebec City. They seemed to have a very good pipeline of French-Canadian players coming up from their team there.
The Flyers bought The Aces from Montreal in 1967.  That's why they were one of the best Expansion Teams.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 07, 2017, 08:28:10 AM
Joe--just  recall  pop  telling  me as a  kid  that  u  went  South  from  Detroit  to Can. Told me  it wasonly place in US u could do that.


Robb-agree-very  silly with teams in Miami, Tampa, Dallas,Phoenix,   San Jose, Anaheim etc.   But the almighty $$. It was 100  degrees  yesterday in Phoenix--but no  game of course.

Doctor, think your father was correct in that statement! The bridge and tunnel from Detroit to Windsor run south. Think the Peace Bridge from Buffalo to Fort Erie runs east-west.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 07, 2017, 10:37:28 AM
Thanx Joe.  Glad  he gave me correct  info.

He wasa trivia nut too.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 07, 2017, 03:15:54 PM
Joe--just  recall  pop  telling  me as a  kid  that  u  went  South  from  Detroit  to Can. Told me  it wasonly place in US u could do that.


Robb-agree-very  silly with teams in Miami, Tampa, Dallas,Phoenix,   San Jose, Anaheim etc.   But the almighty $$. It was 100  degrees  yesterday in Phoenix--but no  game of course.

Doctor, think your father was correct in that statement! The bridge and tunnel from Detroit to Windsor run south. Think the Peace Bridge from Buffalo to Fort Erie runs east-west.
There is at least one other location in USA that is north of Canada (if not 2).  USA's Stuart Island, in The Haro Strait, between Washington and Canada's Vancouver Island, is north of Canada's Discovery Island, off the southeast coast of Vancouver Island.  If you sail due south, you can reach Discovery Island.  There is also an isolated piece of USA on a western peninsula connecting only with British Columbia, well north of southern Vancouver Island, and several Canadian islands in Haro Strait, and The Straits of Juan de Fuca.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 07, 2017, 03:25:19 PM
There is also an isolated chunk of US territory on the northern shore of Lake of The Woods, which is north of a small portion of western Ontario and southeastern Manitoba, from which people would have to drive or walk southwest, to get to the rest of USA (Warroad, Minnesota).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 07, 2017, 05:30:39 PM
Robb--well my pop  was  mostly  accurate. ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 07, 2017, 05:51:32 PM
Warroad, MN -- home of the many Christians, Henry Boucha, and TJ Oshie.

The US-Can border doesn't run in a straight line in many states/provinces (in others, it does). Especially in Minnesota and Maine I'm sure you could walk or drive south from the USA into Canada. But --- I still count your Dad as on the money, Doctor. We should only be talking places where people outnumber the moose and elk.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 07, 2017, 06:01:51 PM
Thanx Joe.  He was referring  to Detroit  for  reason  you  said--more  people  than  grizzlies  and elk. ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 08, 2017, 08:10:10 AM
Hockey Trivia Question:

What player who never played for the Montreal Canadiens holds the record for playing on the most Stanley Cup-winning teams?

Two clues: Played in the 50s/60s, and the number is 8 Stanley Cups.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 08, 2017, 04:34:34 PM
Howe,  Dryden,   Gretzky,  Phil   Esposito.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 08, 2017, 04:45:39 PM
A  defenseman  named  Nurse scored  an assist  yesterday  for  Oilers.   Got me thinking--is there  a pro female  hockey   league--or at least  a female  Olypic hockey team.?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 08, 2017, 08:44:13 PM
A  defenseman  named  Nurse scored  an assist  yesterday  for  Oilers.   Got me thinking--is there  a pro female  hockey   league--or at least  a female  Olypic hockey team.?
Olympic female hockey is a big sport.  National teams of Canada, Sweden, Finland, Russia, USA, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Switzerland, Germany, Austria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, France, Italy, Belarus and Ukraine are a big thing.  Us Women's National Ice Hockey and US College Women's Ice Hockey are both very well-known programmes.  They are the current World Champions.  US and Canada have been the only two women's World Champions over the past 15 years.  Before then, it was always Canada.  How can you be living in USA and never have heard of that???  Aren't you intrested at all in The Winter Olympics?  You never heard of Cammy Granato???  Shame on you!

Never heard of Darnell Nurse???  He's a young Phenom defencman, who may become the next "Bobby Orr".  A so-called "African-Canadian".

My two sisters and many of my girl cousins played some youth hockey.  Of course, we had a backyard rink.  But, we had snow on the ground for 5 months a year, so, there aren't a lot of other things to do during the long winter if you want to stay active.  Riding bicycles and running on ice or in deep snow is no fun.  You get clostrophobia playing basketball inside buildings (gyms), and the number of such courts is limited.  A big 5 of Canadian young girls play hockey.  It's getting a lot bigger (for girls) in USA, too.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 08, 2017, 08:53:04 PM
Hockey Trivia Question:

What player who never played for the Montreal Canadiens holds the record for playing on the most Stanley Cup-winning teams?

Two clues: Played in the 50s/60s, and the number is 8 Stanley Cups.

Next clue: A defenseman


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 08, 2017, 09:59:40 PM
Hockey Trivia Question:

What player who never played for the Montreal Canadiens holds the record for playing on the most Stanley Cup-winning teams?

Two clues: Played in the 50s/60s, and the number is 8 Stanley Cups.

Next clue: A defenseman
It has to be Red Kelly (who played during The Red Wings' glory years, and then played for the early '60s Maple Leafs during their renaissance period).  He played some forward  (centre and wing) for The Leafs, during his last years.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 08, 2017, 10:05:23 PM
Howe,  Dryden,   Gretzky,  Phil   Esposito.

Boston only won The Stanley Cup twice during Orr and Esposito's time, as far as I remember.  Gretzky's Oilers didn't win as many as Kelly's combination of Detroit and Toronto dynasties.  Ullman was on The leafs for their early '60s run, but arrived late in Detroit to miss Detroit's best period.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 08, 2017, 10:23:36 PM
Red Kelly was the guy!

Always stuck in my craw that he refused to report in a trade from Red Wings to Rangers. Other players involved but it was basically gonna amount to Red Kelly going to NY for Bill Gadsby, Until Red nixed it and ended up going to Toronto.

Gadsby was good (All Star, played 20 yrs himself) but Kelly was better IMO.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 08, 2017, 10:30:03 PM
Heard  of Cammy  Granato. But  all of my NBA  fan  friends ignore  the  WNBA. Not because female,but  not compared to   NBA or NHL,its ajoke.  W/O NBA  $$--   no  WNBA..

Like  girls softball-dont  care. Lady golf-dont care.

With 3 daughters I'm not sexist,just bestist.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Loved  girls Olympic gymnastics  for example.

Thanx for   info  about Nurse.

Big game  Wed  Oilers-Ducks.  I  think  Oilers have a good chance--but  their nerves???


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 08, 2017, 10:32:19 PM
But  being on a winner  doesn't  always mean  without  you  no  win. How about  Robert Horry's  8 rings? ;D ;D ;D ;D   Almost as many as Russell.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 08, 2017, 11:10:26 PM
Red Kelly was the guy!

Always stuck in my craw that he refused to report in a trade from Red Wings to Rangers. Other players involved but it was basically gonna amount to Red Kelly going to NY for Bill Gadsby, Until Red nixed it and ended up going to Toronto.

Gadsby was good (All Star, played 20 yrs himself) but Kelly was better IMO.
Red Kelly was a LOT better than Bill Gadsby.  Kelly was one of the greatest players ever.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 09, 2017, 08:41:59 AM
Red Kelly was the guy!

Always stuck in my craw that he refused to report in a trade from Red Wings to Rangers. Other players involved but it was basically gonna amount to Red Kelly going to NY for Bill Gadsby, Until Red nixed it and ended up going to Toronto.

Gadsby was good (All Star, played 20 yrs himself) but Kelly was better IMO.
Red Kelly was a LOT better than Bill Gadsby.  Kelly was one of the greatest players ever.

No question about that, Robb. So, why would Detroit want to get rid of Kelly?

 Apparently, he upset Red Wings management by telling a reporter he had played with a serious injury in the previous "down" season for Red. That was against Red Wings "policy." So, it became a personal thing.

Gadsby and Kelly actually ended up playing pretty much the same number of NHL games. Both known as offensive defensemen (for that era), here's their quick stats:

Kelly - Played in 1316 NHL games, scored 281 goals, 823 points, 327 penalty minutes. Top goal scoring season was 22.
Gadsby - 1248 G, 130 G, 568 pts, 1539 penalty minutes. Top goal scoring season was 14.

Interesting that Kelly's scoring (which was excellent in Detroiit) noticeably picked up when he went to the Leafs. Any idea why that would've been? I mean, don't think he ever scored 20 goals in Detroit but was in the low 20s regularly in Toronto.

Also, the penalty minute numbers might indicate Red was not a physical defenseman compared to Gadsby. Or, maybe he was just smarter?  Both were about 6', 190.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 09, 2017, 10:05:29 AM

Red Kelly was a LOT better than Bill Gadsby.  Kelly was one of the greatest players ever.
Interesting that Kelly's scoring (which was excellent in Detroiit) noticeably picked up when he went to the Leafs. Any idea why that would've been? I mean, don't think he ever scored 20 goals in Detroit but was in the low 20s regularly in Toronto.
[/quote]
I mentioned above that Kelly played some forward while with The Leafs.  Just as Jimmy Roberts did for St. Louis, Dustin Byfugelin does for Winnipeg, and Brent Burns did for Minnesota and San Jose.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 09, 2017, 12:27:54 PM
Robb---Duck  fans  nervous in CA about tomorrow v Edmonton.


Now the doctor has a Nurse to root for. ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 09, 2017, 03:42:37 PM
Robb---Duck  fans  nervous in CA about tomorrow v Edmonton.


Now the doctor has a Nurse to root for. ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'm hoping for an Edmonton win, and an Edmonton/Ottawa Stanley Cup Final. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 09, 2017, 10:42:42 PM
Closer--Ottawa  beat Rangers tonite.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 13, 2017, 03:18:07 PM
Glad  to see Nashville beat Ducks in OT  last nite.

Senators-Penguins  today.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 18, 2017, 10:47:00 PM
Robb-Cory  Perry  of Ducks  tied  a playoff  record  of  the Rocket  tonite.  What  record? 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 19, 2017, 02:48:29 AM
Robb-Cory  Perry  of Ducks  tied  a playoff  record  of  the Rocket  tonite.  What  record? 
3 OT goals in one playoff season?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 19, 2017, 01:28:39 PM
Robb, moving back to older times, any idea how Marcel Dionne (1) got away, as a Quebecer, from Montreal, and (2) came up to the NHL as a Red Wing?

He played Juniors for his hometown Drummondville Rangers, and then for the St. Catherines Black Hawks.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 19, 2017, 06:48:49 PM
Correct!  and some  unknown  guy  from  the 30s.   

Not really fair tho' ---  Perry is in his third 7 game series.  In Rocket's   day- the most games one   could have in  playoffs was  14 ,right.?

Dionne--how  did  Kings get him?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 19, 2017, 07:17:06 PM
Not sure. Probably a trade. He scored a ton of goals for LA on that great line they had with Charlie Simmer and Dave Taylor.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 19, 2017, 09:29:36 PM
Robb, moving back to older times, any idea how Marcel Dionne (1) got away, as a Quebecer, from Montreal, and (2) came up to the NHL as a Red Wing?
He played Juniors for his hometown Drummondville Rangers, and then for the St. Catherines Black Hawks.
Dionne was drafted by Detroit, who was the worst of The Original 6 at the time, and it was AFTER the rule which automatically gave The Canadiens the first choice of the top 2 Quebecers, which was abolished during the early 1970s.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 20, 2017, 04:10:03 PM
Like the old "territorial"  rule in NBA.  Allowed  Philly to get Wilt,  Cincy to get Oscar.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 20, 2017, 07:12:19 PM
Like the old "territorial"  rule in NBA.  Allowed  Philly to get Wilt,  Cincy to get Oscar.

Philly also got Tom Gola, Paul Arizin and Guy Rodgers through the Territorial draft; Celtics got Heinsohn; Royals got Jerry Lucas; Knicks got Bill Bradley; and LA Lakers got Goodrich and Hazzard. Lasted until around 1966.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 20, 2017, 10:57:18 PM
Correct!  and some  unknown  guy  from  the 30s.   

Not really fair tho' ---  Perry is in his third 7 game series.  In Rocket's   day- the most games one   could have in  playoffs was  14 ,right.?

Dionne--how  did  Kings get him?
Right!

The Kings got Dionne in a trade.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 20, 2017, 11:04:05 PM
Joe--did it go that late?   Gola-Lasalle,  Arizin  -Villanova,  Rodgers--Temple.  Didn't  know Bradley was  territorial  --& I was in  NYC  when  heplayed 1st game for Knicks.  BTW,  the  video of that game  announced by Marv Albert  is on Youtube.  When Bradley was a guard!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 21, 2017, 08:46:26 AM
Apparently, Doctor, it went to or through the 1965 season. Was adopted to spur attendance by having the local connection.

Some interesting background: " Although the territorial picks were selected before the draft, these picks were not factored into the overall selection count of the draft; therefore, the first non-territorial pick of the draft was considered the first overall pick.

Of the 23 territorial picks, 12 players have been inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. Tom Heinsohn, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson and Jerry Lucas are the only four territorial picks who won the Rookie of the Year Award. Chamberlain also won the Most Valuable Player Award in his rookie season. He went on to win the Most Valuable Player Award three more times in his career. Oscar Robertson is the only other territorial pick who has won the Most Valuable Player Award; he won it in the 1963–64 season.

The Philadelphia Warriors had the most territorial picks, having selected six who attended a total of five colleges. The University of Cincinnati had the most players taken as a territorial pick; three Cincinnati players were selected using this method by the Cincinnati Royals. The 1965 NBA draft, the last draft in which the rule remained in effect, had the most territorial picks in a single draft with three."


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on May 21, 2017, 12:34:25 PM
So if the territorial draft had been extended a few years, We (NY Knicks) would have received Power Memorial's Lou Alcindor (aka Kareem Abdul Jabbar)? Oh, the humanity!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 21, 2017, 04:04:53 PM
Thanx Joe. By 67  wen  $Bill  1st was on Knicks--explains why not  mentioned. 


Also  Philly  with the"Big 5"    great college  BB town.  NYC  no more.   NYU-gone.   Manhattan,Forham?    St Johns  only realproducer of pros.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 21, 2017, 07:14:13 PM
Mike, that's right! Him and Willis Reed would've made an interesting duo if Willis still became a Knick.

Doctor, remember, Bradley took a couple years off after college to do the Rhodes Scholar thing over in England. So, he woulda been a 1965 territorial pick (the year he graduated from Princeton). Interesting how they determined Princeton was a Knick territory instead of Philly. Think the town is actually closer to Philly than to Manhattan. Musta given the entire state of NJ to the Knicks.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 21, 2017, 07:42:23 PM
Joe--Princeton  is  closer  to NYC--40 miles,   than Philly  -50+miles.


The late  60s early 70s Knicks were  a team of destiny.  Cazzie  broke a leg,so Bradley  became  a forward.  Held on to Barnett  and let Van Arsdale  go  in 67 expansion draft.

Then--Bellamy and  Komives for  DeBusshere.  Then Reed  went to center.  Frazier great draft pick.

BTW,Reed  their  2nd pick in 64,  Jim Bad  News  Barnes #1.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 22, 2017, 12:18:01 AM
This thread's been hijacked!  Why didn't you all just start a pro basketball thread?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 22, 2017, 11:00:28 AM
Correct--not sure  what  happened.

Looks like  Ottawa on way out--7-0   loss to  Penguins.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 22, 2017, 06:29:20 PM
Starting  now  --Predators-Ducks.   Go Nashville.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 22, 2017, 06:50:22 PM
Robb, think we were on the territorial aspects of the Canadiens signing Quebec talent; that morphed in the NBA territorial thing. You're right, though, we probably need a basketball topic. I'll start one with naming all the great hoops players with Dutch heritage!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 22, 2017, 11:12:42 PM
Robb--Laviolette-Nashville  coach--  tied  Keenan and Bowman  tonite.  What record?  (I'm certain u know)


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 23, 2017, 11:12:18 AM
Who's rooting for the Sens tonite? Got a sneaking feeling the darn Penguins are gonna repeat with the Cup. Always seem to peak at the right time. Preds have a shot though.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 23, 2017, 10:40:52 PM
I  like  Ottawa.

Laviolettes record--Stanley  Cup  finalist with 3 diff teams.

Robb--such an emphasis  on hits,  never see any penalties  for charging.  And VERY  few for  boarding.  Agree?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 24, 2017, 01:39:07 AM
Who's rooting for the Sens tonite? Got a sneaking feeling the darn Penguins are gonna repeat with the Cup. Always seem to peak at the right time. Preds have a shot though.
I was, and The Sens didn't disappoint me.  But, they've got to win Game 7 so we can have a Canadian team in The Finals.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 24, 2017, 01:40:52 AM
I  like  Ottawa.

Laviolettes record--Stanley  Cup  finalist with 3 diff teams.

Robb--such an emphasis  on hits,  never see any penalties  for charging.  And VERY  few for  boarding.  Agree?
Yes, there are a lot more incidences of boarding and charging than are called.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 24, 2017, 07:43:28 AM
I  like  Ottawa.

Laviolettes record--Stanley  Cup  finalist with 3 diff teams.

Robb--such an emphasis  on hits,  never see any penalties  for charging.  And VERY  few for  boarding.  Agree?

Yeah, charging used to be a common call. Maybe it's folded in now to new penalty terminology?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 24, 2017, 12:32:14 PM
I think many  are  termed hits and NOT  penalized.   A it is now a big  stat--like rebound in hoops.

20-30  yrs ago dont recall  so  many interference calls--except of course goalie interference.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 24, 2017, 08:48:45 PM
I think many  are  termed hits and NOT  penalized.   A it is now a big  stat--like rebound in hoops.

20-30  yrs ago dont recall  so  many interference calls--except of course goalie interference.
MOST hits are NOT penalised.  Any "hard" hit that effects (changes the outcome of) a play, by knocking the puck loose, allowing defenders to get back into the play, impedes the puck carrier from making an offensive play, is counted as a "hit". 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 24, 2017, 09:56:24 PM
Robb-correct- I just contend that  the  old  charging/boardings are  now  almost always called hits  and not  penalized.

Serious  injury  seems to be the  only way a hit becomes  a charge or board.

Don't players  now have much more  protection   w/their equipment.?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 25, 2017, 12:47:32 PM
Robb-correct- I just contend that  the  old  charging/boardings are  now  almost always called hits  and not  penalized.

Serious  injury  seems to be the  only way a hit becomes  a charge or board.

Don't players  now have much more  protection   w/their equipment.?
Yes, when I played Juniors in Manitoba goalies didn't wear masks, and it wasn't even mandatory to wear helmets for ANY players (till 1964) my last year.  The padding was a LOT less back then, and not so flexible.  But the game was slower, too, and the players were smaller and lighter.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 25, 2017, 01:16:01 PM
Rite-- never thought I'd see  a 6-9  defenseman or 6-6  goalies.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 25, 2017, 03:55:01 PM
Speaking of player size, one of my favorite Rangers of the mid-50s was the then-smallest player in the NHL, Camille Henry. Anyone remember "The Eel" from Quebec City?

Though listed at 5'8, 150, as Andy Bathgate once said, "that was carrying a brick in each hand, He was really 5'7, 138 pounds. He was a great power play scorer whose specialty was scoring goals by redirecting or swatting the puck out of the air.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 25, 2017, 06:43:07 PM
Camille "The Eel" was so small and smoothe-skating and agile, that he used to skate around and between the big players like they were trees in a forest, and then deke the goalie and score on an unexpected shot.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 25, 2017, 08:51:47 PM
Indeed he did Robb. But ... saw a lot of Rangers games when Camille was playing and he took some hellacious hits. A couple of them, I thought "he's not coming back from this one" but, he always did. Small body but big heart.

Saw most of my Ranger games in 1957-58 season, when they finished 2nd to Montreal. Was trying to reconstruct in my mind what the lines were. In doing so, Robb, maybe you can help me. Did teams in the 50s go with three set lines? Or, was it two, with a third line sort of cobbled together as a checking line or penalty killing line?

My memory is clear on the Rangers top two lines in the '57-58 season:

1st Line: Andy Bathgate and Dean Prentice centered by Larry Popein
2nd Line: Andy Hebenton and Camille Henry centered by Dave Creighton

Then, there was the Captain, Red Sullivan, a Center, and Danny Lewicki and J-G Gendron, both LWs. If this was the third line, maybe Bill Gadsby moved up and played some RW??





Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 25, 2017, 11:01:22 PM
Once again no Canadian team in The Stanley Cup Finals!  Booo! :cry:   :(


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 25, 2017, 11:03:19 PM
Did teams in the 50s go with three set lines? Or, was it two, with a third line sort of cobbled together as a checking line or penalty killing line?
Most teams had 2 scoring lines and a checking line.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 25, 2017, 11:12:55 PM
Senators just lost.   Bet  nashville  beats  Pitt.

"Moose"  Vasko  was 6:2 210 or so--average size now.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 26, 2017, 12:21:53 AM
Senators just lost.   Bet  nashville  beats  Pitt.

"Moose"  Vasko  was 6:2 210 or so--average size now.

I remember when The NHL had several 5' 7" 160 forwards and 5' 7" 190 fireplug defencemen.  A 6' 2" player was big.  A player above 200 pounds was heavy, and over 210 was a giant.  They skate much faster with the better groomed colder indoor ice, and, especially with the new skate materials and new weight machines to make legs much stronger, and with new training methods used all year long.  In the old days, NHLers were selling encyclopaedias and vacuum cleaners door-to-door during summers.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 26, 2017, 08:00:28 AM
Only players who didn't have off-season jobs were the really good to great players. The rest sold cars, insurance, whatever.

My heart wanted the Sens, but my head said the Pens. If you saw the game, most of it was played in the Sens half of the ice. Anderson was great. Don't know what the stats say but, watching it, the Pens were the aggressors and pretty much buzzing around Anderson all night. Malkin carrying the puck in is a load to handle.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on May 26, 2017, 11:46:17 AM
Don't know why but Moose Vasko brings Bronco Horvath to mind. Loved watching Camille "The Eel" even in his old age call-ups with NYR.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 26, 2017, 12:30:34 PM
Vasko--BHawks  I recall.

Horvath--Bruins?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 26, 2017, 03:55:42 PM
Horvath best known for centering Bruins top line with Johnny Bucyk and Vic Stasiuk. "Uke Line," as they were all of Ukrainian extraction. Big goal scorer for a Center.

What I remember about Vasko was that in over 15 years of pro hockey, he never lost one tooth. Reportedly, anyway.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 26, 2017, 05:32:49 PM
Joe   Cal Abrams worked with my father  ---delivering mail   during the winters in levittown.   Prob was  making $5k/yr  w/Dodgers.  Early  50s


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 26, 2017, 06:59:57 PM
Joe   Cal Abrams worked with my father  ---delivering mail   during the winters in levittown.   Prob was  making $5k/yr  w/Dodgers.  Early  50s

Yeah, in his early playing days with Yanks, Yogi was a host at a restaurant and sold hardware at a dept store. Rizzuto was a suit salesmen. Walt Dropo and Woodie Held sold real estate. Billy Pierce worked in his Dad's pharmacy. Many had liquor stores they came to own, or bowling alleys, and many lost those businesses as their names faded.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on May 27, 2017, 12:11:21 AM
Roy Face, the excellent Pirates reliever worked as a painter - of houses!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 27, 2017, 08:32:54 AM
Roy Face, the excellent Pirates reliever worked as a painter - of houses!

Wow. So hard to believe how far players' salaries have come. The modern guys should all bow down to Curt Flood, Andy Messersmith, Catfish Hunter and Marvin Miller every day.  League minimum of $5000 a year stayed in effect for a couple decades it seems (from just after WW II). Then, only increased a little. What is it now?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 27, 2017, 11:12:33 AM
Got  to  be about  $500K.

Joe--just in.  Lasorda  had new  pacemaker  implanted.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 27, 2017, 11:16:24 AM
Hockey--Bettman just announced--  Jan 1  2018--Rangers-Islanders   outside  at Citifield.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 27, 2017, 05:51:20 PM
Once again no Canadian team in The Stanley Cup Finals!  Booo! :cry:   :(

Yeah, last Canadian team to win the Cup was Montreal back in 1993!! Hard to believe.

I think Connor McDavid and Edmonton had the best Canadian team this past season and have the best chance to change things.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 27, 2017, 08:09:26 PM
Joe--Jim  Bunning  RIP.   Heard  he is ONLY  one to have  a no hitter  in BOTH  leagues.  Really?

Perfect  game against  Mets day of my HS  grad  --1964.  At the time it was  only  the  7th.  How many more?




Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 29, 2017, 11:25:30 AM
Robb---FIRST  Stanley Cup  with both  US  born coaches. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 29, 2017, 03:57:56 PM
Robb---FIRST  Stanley Cup  with both  US  born coaches. 
Yes, THIS year's finals.  We are losing our game.  Soon, we will have to settle for being best only at Lacrosse and curling.  My, how the mighty have fallen.  This past season's overall 1st draft choice is an American, who played his junior hockey in Arizona (probably a sand hockey league)!  :D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 29, 2017, 05:06:30 PM
An article from a year ago you might find interesting -- addresses "decline" of hockey in Canada.

"NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman, ever the politician, of course will try to rally the fans of his sport no matter the circumstances. After all, 49.3 percent of the league’s players are Canadian, which is more than double the percentage of Americans, 24.5. Hence Bettman claimed, “Fifty percent of the players in this game are from Canada so for people to suggest that there isn’t still a Canadian-centric focus I think is a little misleading.”

The Toronto Star noted that 22 of the 33 players to wear a Florida Panthers jersey—including stars like defenseman Aaron Ekblad and goaltender Roberto Luongo—hail from Canada, but it seems unlikely that your average Manitoba resident will suddenly tune into all of the games played by a relative neophyte team based in Sunrise, Fla.

The National Post’s series, by the way, has posited some interesting theories for Canada’s decline, most notably a range from “poor drafting, to unstable ownership and management, to the sagging Canadian dollar and high tax rate, to players choosing not to play in the Canadian fishbowl.”

While the first few of those are performance issues within the organization’s control, the latter few are not. Canadian hockey teams earn revenue in Canadian dollars but pay players in American dollars; the salary cap may have hurt Canadian teams more because what players can earn is limited, yet a larger share of that salary goes to income taxes; further, media scrutiny is far more intense in Canada."

Robb, think you brought up the dollar valuation issue awhile ago.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 29, 2017, 06:42:46 PM
Canadian teams are at an extreme disadvantage because of the Dollars' discrepancies, and the high tax rate in Canada, and also because only Toronto and Montreal have large metropolitan populations.  So, all the other Canadian cities have small markets, and limited advertising endorsement revenue for star players.  So, they lose their stars to free agency, and can't attract the best free agents.  Also, many Canadian players can avoid the cold winters, and still keep a house in Canada, and live there in the off-season.  So, they get the bigger money and warm winter, and yet can still see their friends and family for almost half the year, if they don't go far in the playoffs (22 of 30 teams).   A LOT has to go right for a Canadian team to win The Stanley Cup now.  It's ironic, as Lord Stanley donated The Trophy for honouring the "best" hockey team in CANADA.  Later, it was given, exclusively to The NHL champion.  And now, it is basically going to the best US Pro team.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 29, 2017, 07:22:08 PM
Top 5 Canadian population centers:

1. Toronto  5.1M
2. Montreal  3.3M
3. Vancouver  2.3M
4. Calgary  1.2M
5. Edmonton  1M

Hard to compete with NY, LA, Chicago, Philly, Boston, Phoenix, etc.

Side issue: Neil Young, who grew up in Omemee, Ont and Winnipeg, has lived in the US for 50 years and paid U.S. taxes. Yet, he has never renounced his Canadian citizenship nor applied for U.S. citizenship. Wonder how that works? Does he pay any Canadian taxes? My guess is no. But, as a Canadian citizen, I would imagine if he got sick while visiting Canada he'd be eligible for all services like a taxpayer would?? When asked why he never became a US citizen, Young said, "Well, that would be too much of a ruse. I'll always be Canadian."


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 29, 2017, 08:34:28 PM
Top 5 Canadian population centers:

1. Toronto  5.1M
2. Montreal  3.3M
3. Vancouver  2.3M
4. Calgary  1.2M
5. Edmonton  1M

Hard to compete with NY, LA, Chicago, Philly, Boston, Phoenix, etc.

Side issue: Neil Young, who grew up in Omemee, Ont and Winnipeg, has lived in the US for 50 years and paid U.S. taxes. Yet, he has never renounced his Canadian citizenship nor applied for U.S. citizenship. Wonder how that works? Does he pay any Canadian taxes? My guess is no. But, as a Canadian citizen, I would imagine if he got sick while visiting Canada he'd be eligible for all services like a taxpayer would?? When asked why he never became a US citizen, Young said, "Well, that would be too much of a ruse. I'll always be Canadian."
Young would have had to give up his Canadian citizenship to become an American citizen 50 years ago.  But, in 1987, dual citizenship became allowed.  So, he could become both.  But he doesn't need to.  Yes, once he returns to Canadian soil he has all rights as a citizen, and could get medical care and all the other benefits.  He probably pays 100% of his US tax requirement to USA, and any amount that would be more than that to Canada, based on Canadian tax rates.  The two countries have a reciprocal agreement.  The resident pays what he would owe to his country of residence and employment location.  IF his country of nationality has a higher tax rate for that same level of income, then he pays the "overage" (amount higher than due to the country of residence, to his country of which he is a citizen.  It is probably worth his while to pay the overage to Canada to keep his Canadian citizenship.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on June 01, 2017, 06:52:40 PM
Penguins an offensive machine. Doubt Preds can recover from really just two bad periods out of six.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 01, 2017, 10:34:23 PM
Agree  Joe.   


Warriors  over  Cavs too.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 05, 2017, 10:36:54 PM
Hockey  continued  its bizarre  rules.   Called a do-over.  Replay  showed  a missed  call on a Pred goal--so  3 minutes later it counted  and  clock went back  3 minutes.  Was  game  winner.

BTW, Gadreau  never scored in an NHL  game--but his 1st 3 are in SCup--& 2gamewinners.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on June 06, 2017, 07:35:05 AM
He's the kid who wasn't even drafted, right? How does that happen? Hockey draft has many rounds doesn't it?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on June 06, 2017, 09:26:41 AM
He's the kid who wasn't even drafted, right? How does that happen? Hockey draft has many rounds doesn't it?
The NHL draft has had its rounds cut way down from what it was in the past.  There were 12 rounds in the early draft years 1969-2000 or so.  It is now down to only 6 rounds.  So, just as in The NFL, there are still good players available after the last draft round.  They are bid for as free UFAs (unrestricted free agents).  They can "choose their team".  Often they are college players who are thought to return for one or two more seasons of college play, or European or Russian players who are a big risk of deciding to play in The KHL or SHL or another European league and possibly NEVER come to play in North America.

Gaudreau was very small, and I think he was also expected to play more in college.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 06, 2017, 05:06:06 PM
Also, he had  an injury.  Drs told him (and prob scouts)  he could not play.  Hand/arm  injury?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on June 06, 2017, 06:42:51 PM
Nice wraparound score. Crazy that the game went on for 3 minutes before stoppage for review and reversed call.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 07, 2017, 03:29:36 PM
That's a new  NHL rule--I think in its 2nd yr.   How the hell  could the  scorers keep track of goals,and assists  before replays?. And how could ONE  ref  handle all the action?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on June 12, 2017, 06:24:39 AM
Predators just did not have the offense needed to win a Cup.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 12, 2017, 02:46:49 PM
Not with  star Johansson  out.  Mite have made it w/him.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on June 12, 2017, 07:10:57 PM
Not with  star Johansson  out.  Mite have made it w/him.
I don't think they'd have scored enough goals even with Johansson for all series games.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: jp05 on June 13, 2017, 06:46:36 PM
Robb, I agree. The predators were/are a very good team, and having a full roster might have made it closer, but the Penquins were better in this series.

Pittsburgh had a significant injury in Chris Letang, but by the time their the cup final both teams have injuries and missing players.

All in all, playoff hockey is so good, and I would rather be watching the 7th game right now instead of posting on the OT board!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on June 21, 2017, 08:21:15 AM
Marian Hossa may be done. Too bad, great player for many years.

From the AP: "Blackhawks winger Marian Hossa will miss the entire 2017-18 NHL season because of a progressive skin disorder he says he's been treating for years. The 38-year-old veteran said severe side effects associated with medication to treat the skin disorder will make it impossible to play hockey next season."

NY papers saying its an allergy to, among other things, the equipment.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on June 21, 2017, 08:31:38 AM
Marian Hossa may be done. Too bad, great player for many years.

From the AP: "Blackhawks winger Marian Hossa will miss the entire 2017-18 NHL season because of a progressive skin disorder he says he's been treating for years. The 38-year-old veteran said severe side effects associated with medication to treat the skin disorder will make it impossible to play hockey next season."
It may, or may not be his final season.  He will NOT retire now, so as to help The Blackhawks with their salary cap problems.  They used a one-time cap circumvention "amnesty" to sign Hossa to a long-term contract extending many years after he'd be an effective player.  That allowed The Blackhawks to keep Toews, Kane, Hossa, and 3 quality all-star defencemen, and some veterans for support, ALL fitting under the cap, when that "loophole" had already been seen to be ludicrous.  That allowed them to ice a collection of stars that otherwise wouldn't have fit under the cap, and allowed them to win The Stanley Cup 3 times.  NOW, The Blackhawks should be paying for that, and would IF he were to retire.  But, if he doesn't retire, they can just place Hossa on the Injured Reserve List, and his cap hit won't count against them.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 21, 2017, 11:59:38 PM
Skin problem?   Wat he gets for being a man named Marian. ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on June 22, 2017, 03:01:00 AM
Skin problem?   Wat he gets for being a man named Marian. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Analogous to John Wayne's given birth name.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 22, 2017, 02:24:59 PM
Didn't  Duke  spell it MarIon? ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 22, 2017, 03:04:20 PM
Robb  --now u have an excuse to  visit Vegas.  Your Wings against the  Golden Knights. ;D ;D

What is it with NHL  and their 2 syllable  named teams?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on June 22, 2017, 03:19:31 PM
Robb  --now u have an excuse to  visit Vegas.  Your Wings against the  Golden Knights. ;D ;D

What is it with NHL  and their 2 syllable  named teams?
MY Wings??  I did say that Gordie Howe was my favourite player as a kid.  But my first favourite NHL team was The Blackhawks, as we used to visit family in Chicago, and Winnipeg only had a Junior A team (not even a high minor league team until the mid '50s (Western Hockey League)).  But, in 1960, a family friend from our neighbourhood (Ab McDonald) started playing for them.  He actually started in their system several years earlier, so for those reasons, and because I liked Glenn Hall, I was a big Hawks' fan.  But, in 1968, Ab was traded to The St. Louis Blues.  So, they became my favourite NHL team.  No, I root for The Winnipeg Jets and The Blues.  I don't like The Red Wings.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 22, 2017, 04:42:48 PM
Apologize Robb.   I have  a few Blackhawk jerseys.   Best Logo   of ALL  teams  in any league.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on June 22, 2017, 05:03:19 PM
Apologize Robb.   I have  a few Blackhawk jerseys.   Best Logo   of ALL  teams  in any league.

I watched Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita in their prime. We moved to Chicago full time in the early 60s.  And my neighbour, from Winnipeg, joined The hawks at about the same time.  Needless to say, I saw a lot of games at Chicago Stadium. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on June 22, 2017, 05:17:43 PM
"Mr. Goalie" was definitely one of the greatest of all time in the nets. Made over 500 consecutive starts for the Black Hawks. Another Saskatchewan player, if I recall.

In the 50s, though, I loved the little guy, Gump Worsley, with my Rangers. He was only 5'7, 155. Wore the #1 jersey. Here's a few anecdotes to brighten your day about the Montreal native!

"Worsley was known for his wry sense of humour and various eccentricities. Early in his career with the Rangers, regularly facing 40–50 shots a night, he was asked: "Which team gives you the most trouble?" His reply - "The New York Rangers."

Worsley was vehemently opposed to wearing a mask. He was the second-to-last professional hockey goaltender to play without a mask. Asked about why he chose to go without, Worsley told reporters: "My face is my mask."

Worsley was also well known for his fear of flying. On November 25, 1968, en route to Los Angeles, he suffered a nervous breakdown after a rough flight from Montreal's Dorval Airport to Chicago. Subsequently, he received psychiatric treatment and missed action. It is said upon emerging from retirement to play for the North Stars he was assured, as Minnesota was in the central part of the continent, the team traveled less than any other in the league."


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 22, 2017, 09:17:30 PM
Reminds me of USC  coach John McKay--"What  do you think  of your  teams'   execution?"   

"It would be a good idea." ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on June 23, 2017, 02:27:41 AM
Reminds me of USC  coach John McKay--"What  do you think  of your  teams'   execution?"   

"It would be a good idea." ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Or what French King Louie XVI said to his Prime Minister when the latter said: "Sire, The People are revolting!"  He answered: "You can say THAT again!"

I love Vaudeville humour!

Reminds me of Burns & Allen, Jack Benny & Fred Allen, Groucho & Chico Marx, Abbott & Costello and Henny Youngman (who was so hammy he didn't even need a 'Straight Man!)


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 23, 2017, 04:36:09 PM
Henny--"  My wife  wants  everything  modern--  an electric  dishwasher,   an electric  dryer  etc. .   So for living room furniture I got her an electric chair." ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on June 24, 2017, 05:35:11 AM
"Mr. Goalie" was definitely one of the greatest of all time in the nets. Made over 500 consecutive starts for the Black Hawks. Another Saskatchewan player, if I recall.

In the 50s, though, I loved the little guy, Gump Worsley, with my Rangers. He was only 5'7, 155. Wore the #1 jersey. Here's a few anecdotes to brighten your day about the Montreal native!

"Worsley was known for his wry sense of humour and various eccentricities. Early in his career with the Rangers, regularly facing 40–50 shots a night, he was asked: "Which team gives you the most trouble?" His reply - "The New York Rangers."

Worsley was vehemently opposed to wearing a mask. He was the second-to-last professional hockey goaltender to play without a mask. Asked about why he chose to go without, Worsley told reporters: "My face is my mask."

Worsley was also well known for his fear of flying. On November 25, 1968, en route to Los Angeles, he suffered a nervous breakdown after a rough flight from Montreal's Dorval Airport to Chicago. Subsequently, he received psychiatric treatment and missed action. It is said upon emerging from retirement to play for the North Stars he was assured, as Minnesota was in the central part of the continent, the team traveled less than any other in the league."


Yes. Hall was a Saskatchewan farm boy.  He always held out during training camp, saying that he had to "paint the barn".  He vomited before every game.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on June 24, 2017, 08:52:16 AM
In a Stanley Cup Game 7, who'd you want in goal for your team -- Sawchuk, Plante or Hall?  What an era for great goalies.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on June 24, 2017, 03:19:43 PM
Sawchuck - though Plante & Hall were also terrific. Any votes for Johnny Bower, still quite active on the memorabilia circuit?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on June 24, 2017, 09:13:05 PM
Bill Russell--only other guy  who puked before  every game.

BTW,  who did  Wings  get  for Hall?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on June 25, 2017, 04:52:17 AM
Bill Russell--only other guy  who puked before  every game.

BTW,  who did  Wings  get  for Hall?


They got nothing much: Hank Bassen, Forbes Kennedy, Bill Preston, and Johnny Wilson for both Glenn Hall and all star future HOFer, Ted Lindsey.  Ownership was punishing Lindsey for being the most active star in The NHL's Union movement, and Hall was sympathetic to it, and also they were disappointed in his play in that past year's playoffs.  They traded to get Sawchuck back, so Hall was superfluous.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 01, 2017, 04:25:51 PM
Saw today that the Predators had lured Nick Bonino away from the Pens. Not a Pittsburgh fan but, man, that line of Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel killed in the playoffs. Former Boston U player has speed and a knack for playing his best when it counts the most.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 01, 2017, 05:47:53 PM
Jagr  at 45  is  disappointed  no one  wants him.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 02, 2017, 04:17:41 AM
Jagr  at 45  is  disappointed  no one  wants him.
There are several months till October.  You can bet some team will.  Maybe he won't want to play for Las Vegas or Colorado.  He wants to stay on The East Coast.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 02, 2017, 08:02:11 AM
As a long-suffering Caps fan, still scratching my head over Jagr's non-performance in Washington.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 02, 2017, 12:02:56 PM
How about  age?  45-46?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 02, 2017, 02:27:57 PM
Think he's 45.  Still had 16 goals and 30 assists this past season. Says he wants to play until age 50.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 08, 2017, 10:56:09 AM
Think he's 45.  Still had 16 goals and 30 assists this past season. Says he wants to play until age 50.
He'd be a power play specialist.  He's really not fast enough to play adequate defence, especially during the hard-checking playoffs.  He needs to be offered a contract by a mediocre to weak team on The East Coast to be signed, in my opinion.  I don't think a strong playoff team can afford him under their cap for just regular season PP play.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 16, 2017, 06:28:49 PM
Short clip of famous 1979 Stanley Cup semifinal game. Look how many were not yet wearing helmets! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy (talking about Don Cherry -- wasn't he the Bruins coach?). What a goal by the Canadiens to tie it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5YkiRuTC4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5YkiRuTC4)


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 16, 2017, 08:46:50 PM
what about  Bellinger?   Cycle.  3rd  in LA.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 17, 2017, 02:50:03 AM
Short clip of famous 1979 Stanley Cup semifinal game. Look how many were not yet wearing helmets! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy (talking about Don Cherry -- wasn't he the Bruins coach?). What a goal by the Canadiens to tie it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5YkiRuTC4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5YkiRuTC4)

I played my entire 15 year career without wearing a helmet.   Helmets weren't even required for kids in youth hockey in Canada until 1964 (start of 1964-65 season).  And our goaltenders didn't wear masks.  And our padding was awfully thin and small compared to that used today.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 17, 2017, 08:05:07 AM
Short clip of famous 1979 Stanley Cup semifinal game. Look how many were not yet wearing helmets! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy (talking about Don Cherry -- wasn't he the Bruins coach?). What a goal by the Canadiens to tie it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5YkiRuTC4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5YkiRuTC4)

I played my entire 15 year career without wearing a helmet.   Helmets weren't even required for kids in youth hockey until 1964 (start of 1964-65 season).  And our goaltenders didn't wear masks.  And our padding was awfully thin and small compared to that used today.

I hear ya. One piece of equipment that I think has gotten "thinner" (to use your description) is the gloves. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the gloves used in the NHL in "our day," more substantial and thicker than what they wear now. Seems to me players get slashed on the hands/wrists with more devastating consequences these days.

Also, here's Don Cherry launching his media career with rant after that game. Grapes at his finest! Had those media guys eating right out of his hand!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WIHEJwYqE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WIHEJwYqE)


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 17, 2017, 08:41:35 AM
Short clip of famous 1979 Stanley Cup semifinal game. Look how many were not yet wearing helmets! Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy (talking about Don Cherry -- wasn't he the Bruins coach?). What a goal by the Canadiens to tie it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5YkiRuTC4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o5YkiRuTC4)

I played my entire 15 year career without wearing a helmet.   Helmets weren't even required for kids in youth hockey until 1964 (start of 1964-65 season).  And our goaltenders didn't wear masks.  And our padding was awfully thin and small compared to that used today.
I hear ya. One piece of equipment that I think has gotten "thinner" (to use your description) is the gloves. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the gloves used in the NHL in "our day," more substantial and thicker than what they wear now. Seems to me players get slashed on the hands/wrists with more devastating consequences these days.

Also, here's Don Cherry launching his media career with rant after that game. Grapes at his finest! Had those media guys eating right out of his hand!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WIHEJwYqE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1WIHEJwYqE)


Yes.  Gloves in the 1960s and 1970s were bigger and heavier than they are now.  And players do seem to be suffering a lot of slashing cuts on the wrists and lower arm than before, that shouldn't be happening.  But, I wouldn't have expected them to happen like they do. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 17, 2017, 10:37:01 PM
But  most  of rest  of equipment  seems bigger and more  substantial---hence  all the "blocks"  by  not just defensemen.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 18, 2017, 08:04:38 AM
Have to admit I liked the game better before all the defensive "systems" (started first by the Devils, no?) came into being, and all the blocking of shots  you mention. What I liked was a more "open" ice surface where skill (skating, stick handling, passing and shooting) was more on display.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 19, 2017, 09:35:45 AM
Have to admit I liked the game better before all the defensive "systems" (started first by the Devils, no?) came into being, and all the blocking of shots  you mention. What I liked was a more "open" ice surface where skill (skating, stick handling, passing and shooting) was more on display.

I agree with this.  I love to see great skating, stickhandling, deking and open ice passing skills.  But, I also like seeing the physical game skills.  I do mis open-ice hip checks.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 19, 2017, 11:29:24 AM
Have to admit I liked the game better before all the defensive "systems" (started first by the Devils, no?) came into being, and all the blocking of shots  you mention. What I liked was a more "open" ice surface where skill (skating, stick handling, passing and shooting) was more on display.

I agree with this.  I love to see great skating, stickhandling, deking and open ice passing skills.  But, I also like seeing the physical game skills.  I do mis open-ice hip checks.

I was wrong with crediting the Neutral Zone Trap to the NJ Devils. Toronto actually "invented" the strategy and used it in the 20s and 30s. The Devils just resurrected it to great effect for them in the 90s. Jacques Lemaire was the coach who won with it. Four players in the neutral zone plus a forechecker in the offensive zone. Really bottled things up!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 19, 2017, 07:23:26 PM
Agree  Joe.   But  like   recent  allowance  of  2 line  pass.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 19, 2017, 07:40:06 PM
Agree  Joe.   But  like   recent  allowance  of  2 line  pass.

Three other suggestions (all with their issues) to open up the ice:

1. 3 Second Offside: Players can enter offensive zone up to 3 seconds before the puck does. Ref's call -- no replays.

2. 4 on 4 (unlikely because it would cost jobs).

3. International rink size.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 20, 2017, 09:30:18 AM
Agree  Joe.   But  like   recent  allowance  of  2 line  pass.

Three other suggestions (all with their issues) to open up the ice:

1. 3 Second Offside: Players can enter offensive zone up to 3 seconds before the puck does. Ref's call -- no replays.

2. 4 on 4 (unlikely because it would cost jobs).

3. International rink size.

None of these would work. 

#3: The teams ALL have a lot of money invested in their stadia.  It would cost too much in remodeling and losing seat area to use a larger rink size.

#2:  4 on 4 is too different from the traditional game we all played.  There are enough goals scored now.  I HATED the game in the '80s and early '90s when the ice was so open and ridiculous numbers of goals were scored, and defences couldn't stop them. Gretzky's numbers look ridiculous, and people think he was the best player ever.  I'd rather have had Gordie Howe or Mario Lemieux.  The game is much BETTER NOW than it was in that inflated goal era.

#1:  There would be a LOT of disputes given that scenario.  Better to change the rule to: any part of the body of a player on the team with the puck crosses the invisible plane above the inside edge of the blueline, results in an offside call.  We can leave that up to the on-ice linesmen AND the camera review team, with a 3-minute limit on review time.  If inconclusive, call on the ice stands.  This would eliminate the "heal off the ice" problem.  The play is onside if no part of his body or stick crosses the inside edge of the blueline before the puck. - PERIOD!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 20, 2017, 05:34:16 PM
Robb-has all answers  as usual.  How much bigger is  international rink?   10  ft wider,20  longer?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 21, 2017, 02:31:49 AM
Robb-has all answers  as usual.  How much bigger is  international rink?   10  ft wider,20  longer?

The NHL rink specified size is 200 feet by 85 feet.  The Olympic rinks are 15 feet wider. So they are 200 feet by 100 feet.  That larger width makes for a much greater use of the east-west game, cycling and passing the puck sideways to get openings in the slot, while the thin North American rinks are better for the straight ahead north-south game, taking the puck straight up the ice towards the goal, and driving to draw defencemen out, and create openings.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 21, 2017, 06:10:46 AM
I much prefer the NHL north-south flow to the international east-west passing/cycling game, which slows the game down akin to a US college basketball "stall" game.  That's why so many Euro players, who don't like the physical game and are used to being open most of the time to have lots of time to make perfect tape-to-tape passes flourish in that game, but can't make it in the much faster-paced and harder hitting NHL game, in which there is little time and space to initiate an offensive play.  Reactions must occur instantly, and plays made with a hit being made on the instigator as he attempts to shoot or pass, or start a drive to the net.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 21, 2017, 07:54:33 AM
Robb, If you're interested, take a look at the article on issues relating to Offsides in the June 2017 issue of Hockey News. I'd link it if I could but am sure a Google search would turn it up. It's long but think you might enjoy it. Puts forth info FAR more eloquently than I ever could.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 21, 2017, 10:12:50 AM
Robb, If you're interested, take a look at the article on issues relating to Offsides in the June 2017 issue of Hockey News. I'd link it if I could but am sure a Google search would turn it up. It's long but think you might enjoy it. Puts forth info FAR more eloquently than I ever could.

Yes, I've read it.  We at Hockey's Future have gone over all the issues many times.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 21, 2017, 12:57:27 PM
Robb, different subject. Be interested in hearing your thoughts on net anchoring systems. I pretty much understand today's system, and all the problems with the magnetized net anchoring system that came before it.

How were nets anchored when Mark Howe suffered that horrific injury? Was it the same way they had been anchored forever, i.e., going back to the 50s, 60s and before?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 22, 2017, 02:35:24 AM
Robb, different subject. Be interested in hearing your thoughts on net anchoring systems. I pretty much understand today's system, and all the problems with the magnetized net anchoring system that came before it.

How were nets anchored when Mark Howe suffered that horrific injury? Was it the same way they had been anchored forever, i.e., going back to the 50s, 60s and before?

NHL and all pro leagues in North America currently use The Marsh Peg System, which has extremely flexible, but strong plastic pegs (placed in holes) that hold the net in place.  When it is bumped lightly, it wobbles, but pops right back into position.  When it is slammed into by a sliding body or flying body, making contact at high speed, the pegs jump out of the holes, and the entire net moves in the direction away from the direction of impact.  This system has been used for the past 15+ years.  Before that, the net pole pegs were much more rigid, and didn't jump out as often, and the net poles didn't wobble (give) as much, so the poles were more stationary after impact, and so the impacts of human bodies against them were much harder.  That is why Mark Howe's career was shortened, along with many others.  

Back in the '50s and before, nets' poles were set in the holes, and didn't move much, at all, when hit.  So, crashing into them with a body part, usually resulted in serious injury.  In 1961, In a Bantam game, I was hit hard and slid headfirst into the post at full speed, and lost consciousness for some seconds.  I was helped off, but only missed a couple shifts.  I went back in without all the "cobwebs" cleared.  At that time, we wore no helmets, and there was no "concussion protocol".  Helmets became mandatory for all youth hockey in Canada in fall 1964 (my last year in Juniors).  I was very lucky to have no permanent damage from that 1961 event.  Or DID I?  I'm pretty flaky and forgetful.  But my forgetfulness started at 50, rather than at age 15 (when the accident occurred).  :D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 22, 2017, 07:36:38 AM
Robb, thanks. Knew you'd had personal experience. Out of all the hazards (nets, sticks, fists, hard checks, etc), think skate blades are the most hazardous.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 22, 2017, 10:43:12 AM
Robb, thanks. Knew you'd had personal experience. Out of all the hazards (nets, sticks, fists, hard checks, etc), think skate blades are the most hazardous.

Yes, absolutely!  Some players have almost lost their lives from bleeding to death before medical aid could arrive, by having an artery severed.  Luckily, I was never cut.  I only lost 2 teeth, had 8 shoulder dislocations ( 4 on each arm), and stretched ligaments and torn cartilage in my right knee, and the mild concussion from the head/pole collision, plus lots of hard hits to the body by big players at full speed and getting knocked to the ice or into the boards.  Knowing what the life expectancy of hockey skaters (non goalies) was at the beginning of the 1960s, and the relatively short career and relatively low NHL pay at that time, my Jewish parents would have had a caniption had I elected to NOT move with them to Chicago during my first Junior A season, but to remain in Winnipeg, living with my uncle and aunt, and decided to pursue a hockey career, rather than attending university and pursuing a higher post graduate degree (I ended up with 3 masters degrees, and became a scientist and economist for The UN) rather than getting a hockey scholarship to a school who didn't offer the course I would want, and not making The NHL anyway, and starving while languishing in the minors, or failing to make a pro career, and wasting 5-7 years, and being a cripple by middle age.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 22, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Who was the goalie  who almost bled to  death on the ice  a few yrs ago--after  neck was cut by a skate, I believe.

Forget who Ted Green  almost killed--hitting him over the head with his stick. 70s?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 22, 2017, 06:33:40 PM
Who was the goalie  who almost bled to  death on the ice  a few yrs ago--after  neck was cut by a skate, I believe.

Forget who Ted Green  almost killed--hitting him over the head with his stick. 70s?

it was St. Louis' Wayne Maki who almost killed Boston's Ted Green by hitting him in the head with his stick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXoO2QkIlH8


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 22, 2017, 07:12:04 PM
Clint Malarchuk's jugular vein and carotid artery were cut by a skate blade. When he was playing in goal with the Sabres.

Fans in the arena literally fainted, out cold from the sight of all the blood. Two fans had heart attacks in the stands. Mike Robitaille, the Buffalo radio/TV announcer, couldn't continue.

300 stitches. Back on the ice in 10 days. Who says hockey players aren't tough!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 23, 2017, 02:59:15 AM
Clint Malarchuk's jugular vein and carotid artery were cut by a skate blade. When he was playing in goal with the Sabres.

Fans in the arena literally fainted, out cold from the sight of all the blood. Two fans had heart attacks in the stands. Mike Robitaille, the Buffalo radio/TV announcer, couldn't continue.

300 stitches. Back on the ice in 10 days. Who says hockey players aren't tough!
Ha! Ha! Yes!  Our teeth fall all over the ice like chicklets.  Good thing we have dental implants.  Otherwise I'd look like the only Jewish Hillbilly!  My coach was pissed when I had to miss a shift after my (probable) concussion from being knocked into the goalpost headfirst at full speed!  :o


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 23, 2017, 07:47:55 AM
Oh, btw, Malarchuk skated off the ice (with the trainer stemming the spurting blood), on his own. He admitted later he thought he was gonna die (a reasonable assumption), but knew his mother was watching TV and he didn't want her to see him die on the ice.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 23, 2017, 08:34:03 AM
Oh, btw, Malarchuk skated off the ice (with the trainer stemming the spurting blood), on his own. He admitted later he thought he was gonna die (a reasonable assumption), but knew his mother was watching TV and he didn't want her to see him die on the ice.

Yes.  I remember seeing the film clip of that.  It was a televised game, so the clip was shown.  It was gruesome.  I've been in lots of pileups where skates were flying by.  Just luck to never get cut.  A lot of us could have died at 16, 20, 35, 40 and 65.  Just the luck of the draw.  I've also skied all alone in the mountain back country in western Canada and Western USA, without filing an itinerary with the respective Forest service, and could have died easily by exposure, body heat loss or starvation, simply by breaking or spraining an ankle.  but, somehow, I've managed to survive into my 70s.  Of course, I haven't done any back-country skiing or hockey playing in more than 15 years.  I do miss both.  But, I don't have anyone with whom to go on such ski trips anymore, and I'd be much more susceptible to injury.  And, the recreational hockey leagues aren't usually for 60s and above.  The oldies are usually 40 and above, and always have one or two Gung Ho macho men, who think they are still 20, and want to play NHL style, knocking opponents into the boards.  So, THAT'S completely out.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 23, 2017, 09:48:38 AM
Malarchuk: another one of those Ukrainian surnames. The "chuk" ending seems particularly indigenous to Canada. Don't hear that name ending nearly as often in the USA. In this case, Clint was an Edmonton-raised kid.

Always feel for the guy who "causes" the serious injury too. I imagine careers have been set back on that account too. Even though accidental, it's gotta shake you up.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 23, 2017, 01:27:05 PM
Thanx  guys.   Couldn't happen today  with  the  goalie  "monster mask. "  [Steve  Yeager  of Dodgers   waiting  in on deck circle almost killed by  a broken  bat.  After that he  asked for/  designed the  now universal  "neck protector."

Sorry  I reversed Green and  Maki.  But Green was a  dirty  SOB, no?  Maki had probably  taken enough from Green.

Believe  Chico  was  Wayne's brother.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 23, 2017, 01:39:47 PM
Thanx  guys.   Couldn't happen today  with  the  goalie  "monster mask. "  [Steve  Yeager  of Dodgers   waiting  in on deck circle almost killed by  a broken  bat.  After that he  asked for/  designed the  now universal  "neck protector."

Sorry  I reversed Green and  Maki.  But Green was a  dirty  SOB, no?  Maki had probably  taken enough from Green.

Believe  Chico  was  Wayne's brother.
Yes, Chico was Wayne's older brother.  Both came up through The Black Hawks' chain.  Wayne was traded to St. Louis.  Ted Green was one of the dirtiest NHLers, ever.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 23, 2017, 04:26:08 PM
Hate  to say it, but  Green probably  deserved  it.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 23, 2017, 04:59:33 PM
Hate  to say it, but  Green probably  deserved  it.
No one "deserves" to get brain damage from being clobbered in the head with a hockey stick.  But you could make a case that Green shouldn't have been surprised that someone would do that to him some day.  I guess you've seen Green playing for The Bruins, then, eh?  Not for the squeamish.   


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 23, 2017, 06:44:51 PM
In the late 1950s, there were only a handful of players of any note over 200 pounds. Most were stars/superstars -- so there seems to be correlation there. Namely, John Bucyk (the biggest at 215 lbs), Gordie Howe, Frank Mahovlich, Jean Beliveau, Moose Vasko and Dollard St. Laurent.

Average size back then was 5'11, 177.  Nowadays, 6'1, 201.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 24, 2017, 09:46:51 AM
In the late 1950s, there were only a handful of players of any note over 200 pounds. Most were stars/superstars -- so there seems to be correlation there. Namely, John Bucyk (the biggest at 215 lbs), Gordie Howe, Frank Mahovlich, Jean Beliveau, Moose Vasko and Dollard St. Laurent.

Average size back then was 5'11, 177.  Nowadays, 6'1, 201.
No doubt that some of the largest, heaviest players dominated using their size.  But, they could only do that if they were also fast and smooth skaters.  Moose Vasko was big and tough.  But, the fast-skating midgets could skate around him.  Same for Dolly St. Laurent.  Lots of large defencemen were only effective if the opposing forwards were too near to them.  There was a lot of grabbing and using body leverage to impede offensive players.  The combination of size, strength, skill and skating prowess made the whole package.  We didn't have the modern weight training and resistance machines they have today.  Farm boys like Gordie Howe were strong because of lifting bales of hay and bags of potatoes and grain, and large metal milk containers in the off season (and we used free weights).  I was always tall and skinny.  I was 6ft 1.5 in, and ate as much as possible, and lifted weights as much as possible, and could only finally get up to about 177 lb at my pick, in first year of Junior A (at 16 and 17).  I had a hard time playing against 6ft 2 190lb checking forwards and 6 ft 4 in 200 lb defencemen, who were 19 or even 20 (overagers).  There were a lot of small, fast and agile skaters, with high skill levels.  I loved to watch the super-skilled stickhandlers take the puck all the way up ice, skating around 5 opponents and deking the goalie for a score.  That doesn't happen anymore.  A player trying such selfish moves would fail every time and be cut quickly.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 24, 2017, 10:58:48 AM
I liked watching the smaller guys do their thing. Guys like Camille Henry, Red Sullivan, Ted Lindsay, Stan Mikita, Kenny Wharram, Boom Boom Geoffrion, Henri Richard, and Dick Duff on through later guys like Yvan Cournoyer, Dennis Polonich, Gregg Sheppard, and Dave Keon.

Still many short players in the NHL but the difference is they all pack a lot more weight these days than the small guys of earlier times. By 1980, the training and weights had changed the landscape for players.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 25, 2017, 08:23:11 AM
I liked watching the smaller guys do their thing. Guys like Camille Henry, Red Sullivan, Ted Lindsay, Stan Mikita, Kenny Wharram, Boom Boom Geoffrion, Henri Richard, and Dick Duff on through later guys like Yvan Cournoyer, Dennis Polonich, Gregg Sheppard, and Dave Keon.

Still many short players in the NHL but the difference is they all pack a lot more weight these days than the small guys of earlier times. By 1980, the training and weights had changed the landscape for players.

Yes, many of the small players (like Martin St. Louis, Robby Fabbri, Sam Gagner, et al) don't depend only on speed and skill anymore, but are also super strong for their size, and play a chippy hitting game like Stan Mikita did, and go to the tough areas and initiate contact, and bounce off checks like cannonballs.  It's really difficult to play down low and stay on the puck, and hold one's own in puck battles these days, unless one is very strong and fearless.  Unfortunately, smaller players playing that type of game can lead to more injuries than in the past.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 25, 2017, 10:35:04 PM
Wasn't  Beliveau--remember 1st NHL er  to  be on SI cover,  about  6:3-4?
  Loved his smooth style  of  and clean  play.  As I've  said before  a consummate gentleman --and most intelligent hockey player i've  ever heard.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 26, 2017, 08:41:55 AM
Wasn't  Beliveau--remember 1st NHL er  to  be on SI cover,  about  6:3-4?
  Loved his smooth style  of  and clean  play.  As I've  said before  a consummate gentleman --and most intelligent hockey player i've  ever heard.


"Le Gros Bill" (Big Bill) was listed as 6'3, 205. Nickname came from a French Canadian folk song (Here Comes Big Bill).



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 26, 2017, 09:58:20 AM
Wasn't  Beliveau--remember 1st NHL er  to  be on SI cover,  about  6:3-4?
  Loved his smooth style  of  and clean  play.  As I've  said before  a consummate gentleman --and most intelligent hockey player i've  ever heard.


I remember him being very tall.  I always thought he was 6:04, as he seemed taller than the 6:03 guys.  Maybe he just looked taller because he stood straighter, because he was "a stand up guy"?   ;D   Maybe that saying (like so many others) came from a truism, that honest and courageous people stand up straighter than dishonest people and those trying to hide something?  It stands to reason.  Body language is very influential in humans' lives, as it is with other animals.  And it has been proven that humans and the other great apes share many body language gestures.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 26, 2017, 12:02:30 PM
They used to refer to his skating style as "elegant" -- probably had a lot to do with his standup posture and height.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on July 26, 2017, 08:14:19 PM
dont  correct me  Robb-  Jean  won 10 Cups?

I truly believe  he could  have been  PM    or  whoever is #1  in Canada. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 27, 2017, 03:03:44 AM
dont  correct me  Robb-  Jean  won 10 Cups?

I truly believe  he could  have been  PM    or  whoever is #1  in Canada. 

He certainly was the most charismatic and well-spoken sports star to come out of Quebec.  He could easily have become PM of Quebec (given that Ronald Reagan, Donald Trump, Arnold Schwartzeneger, Jack Kemp and jesse Ventura could hold high government office). Beliveau would have been better than most of those guys.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 27, 2017, 07:58:12 AM
Robb, when you say "to come out of Quebec," is that like saying in the States "to come out of Mississippi?"

Apparently, made a Knight in Quebec, a "Companion of the Order of Canada" (highest civilian honor), and his likeness is on a Canadian postage stamp.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 27, 2017, 12:21:16 PM
Robb, when you say "to come out of Quebec," is that like saying in the States "to come out of Mississippi?"

Apparently, made a Knight in Quebec, a "Companion of the Order of Canada" (highest civilian honor), and his likeness is on a Canadian postage stamp.

Yes, more or less.  To be a product of (e.g. was raised there).  Except that having been a "Ghetto child" from my teens through 20s, "coming out of Mississippi" would have quite a different meaning.   ;D

Yes, Big Jean, (Le Gros Bill) was quite an honoured man.  And rightly so.  Les Canadiens bought an entire league (Quebec Senior Hockey League) so they could own his rights (they needed to own The Quebec Aces - who immediately became The Habs' main AHL farm team.  B?liveau had refused to sign with Montr?al and leave The Aces.  Once they owned his rights, he had to play for The Habs.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on July 27, 2017, 04:46:15 PM
Robb, my comparison was based on quality of education. Mississippi is always in the bottom three in rankings of the 50 States. So, Quebec is similar? For what reason, the language issue, cultural reasons, resources ??


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on July 27, 2017, 05:36:50 PM
Robb, my comparison was based on quality of education. Mississippi is always in the bottom three in rankings of the 50 States. So, Quebec is similar? For what reason, the language issue, cultural reasons, resources ??
No - Quebec is similar to Mississippi only in that provinces in Canada are analogous to states in USA.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on August 02, 2017, 04:03:16 PM
Robb, Another "little guy" who was a favorite of mine on the Rangers of the mid 1950s was Winnipeg native Wally Hergesheimer.  About 5'8 and 155 lbs or so, he started playing pro hockey at age 16 and scored 20 or more goals a number of seasons in the NHL in the 50s. Played RW. Think he also played for Chicago.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on August 02, 2017, 04:36:34 PM
Robb, Another "little guy" who was a favorite of mine on the Rangers of the mid 1950s was Winnipeg native Wally Hergesheimer.  About 5'8 and 155 lbs or so, he started playing pro hockey at age 16 and scored 20 or more goals a number of seasons in the NHL in the 50s. Played RW. Think he also played for Chicago.
Funny you should bring him up.  Not only was he from my home town, but we both played on the same Jr. A team, The Winnipeg Rangers.  He was 20 years ahead of me.  My contract rights were owned by The New York Rangers.  If I had wanted to stay in Winnipeg, with my aunt and uncle, and continue playing hockey and pursuing a hockey career, when my parents moved to Chicago, I'd have ended up in The New York Rangers' farm system (actually, The Winnipeg Rangers Junior team was for all intents and purposes, part of The rangers farm system).  I watched Wally play his whole NHL career.  He was one of the best small players.  He's in The Manitoba Hockey Hall of Fame, and The Manitoba Sports Hall of Fame.  He wasn't afraid to duke it out with the big boys.  He fought and scrapped to hold position in front of the net, and was an expert at deflecting the puck past the goalie.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on August 02, 2017, 05:03:03 PM
Robb, Another "little guy" who was a favorite of mine on the Rangers of the mid 1950s was Winnipeg native Wally Hergesheimer.  About 5'8 and 155 lbs or so, he started playing pro hockey at age 16 and scored 20 or more goals a number of seasons in the NHL in the 50s. Played RW. Think he also played for Chicago.
Funny you should bring him up.  Not only was he from my home town, but we both played on the same Jr. A team, The Winnipeg Rangers.  He was 20 years ahead of me.  My contract rights were owned by The New York Rangers.  If I had wanted to stay in Winnipeg, with my aunt and uncle, and continue playing hockey and pursuing a hockey career, when my parents moved to Chicago, I'd have ended up in The New York Rangers' farm system (actually, The Winnipeg Rangers Junior team was for all intents and purposes, part of The rangers farm system).  I watched Wally play his whole NHL career.  He was one of the best small players.  He's in The Manitoba Hockey Hall of Fame, and The Manitoba Sports Hall of Fame.  He wasn't afraid to duke it out with the big boys.  He fought and scrapped to hold position in front of the net, and was an expert at deflecting the puck past the goalie.

One of my favorite NY Rangers of the 1954-64 era. In the mid 50s, as a young teen, I was an altar boy -- a Catholic Church thing. Every year altar boys in NY diocese churches west of the Hudson had an "outing." The road trip kind. Usually, to places like Palisades Park or Asbury Park.

In 1955, our parish priest got sick and we lost out because he couldn't drive us to wherever the summer event was. Anyway, when he recovered, he got 5 or 6 of us tickets to a Rangers game, 1955-56 season. We sat in the nosebleed seats at the "old" Garden but he arranged for Wally to have a picture taken with our little group. Wish I still had it. He seemed, off-ice, like a genuinely nice guy.

Andy Hebenton was another Winnipeg guy on that team. Think it was his first year in the league.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on August 02, 2017, 05:16:04 PM
Funny you should bring him up.  Not only was he from my home town, but we both played on the same Jr. A team, The Winnipeg Rangers.  He was 20 years ahead of me.  My contract rights were owned by The New York Rangers.  If I had wanted to stay in Winnipeg, with my aunt and uncle, and continue playing hockey and pursuing a hockey career, when my parents moved to Chicago, I'd have ended up in The New York Rangers' farm system (actually, The Winnipeg Rangers Junior team was for all intents and purposes, part of The rangers farm system).  I watched Wally play his whole NHL career.  He was one of the best small players.  He's in The Manitoba Hockey Hall of Fame, and The Manitoba Sports Hall of Fame.  He wasn't afraid to duke it out with the big boys.  He fought and scrapped to hold position in front of the net, and was an expert at deflecting the puck past the goalie.
Andy Hebenton was another Winnipeg guy on that team. Think it was his first year in the league.

Yeah, I remember Andy well.  He playedn9 years in The NHL and never missed a game.  They called him "The Iron Man".  That was a LOT harder to do in hockey than baseball or basketball.

Another Andy from Winnipeg was the greatest Winnipegger of them all - Andy Bathgate.  And he played almost his entire career with The Rangers.  You should surely remember him.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on August 02, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
Top line in those days for the NYR was, I think, Andy Bathgate and Dean Prentice, centered by Larry Popein. Prentice was from Ontario and The Pope was a Saskatchewan guy. Top three on the blue line were Howell, Leapin Lou Fontinato and Bill Gadsby (Alberta). Worsley in the net.

Sure looks like the Rangers had Manitoba locked down in those days. Don Raleigh, an elder citizen by the 50s, was also a Winnipeg guy on that team.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on August 02, 2017, 07:56:01 PM
Bathgate  was smooth

Who  was  responsible  for that well  known photo  of Louie--with  face  all wrapped  in bandage  for  his  broken nose? 

Gordie?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on August 02, 2017, 08:44:28 PM
Bathgate  was smooth

Who  was  responsible  for that well  known photo  of Louie--with  face  all wrapped  in bandage  for  his  broken nose? 

Gordie?

Yeah, Gordie broke his nose and dislocated his jaw. Lou was one of the very first "enforcers." Seemed like he took a penalty every shift he had. Later traded to Montreal. While playing the NYR, he missed a check, crashed into the boards head first and was paralyzed for a month or so. That pretty much finished him. The MSG fans loved him although I think he was a net negative.

Here's a grainy video of the missed check on Vic Hadfield which temporarily (for months) paralyzed him in '63.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczNJVH1UDA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczNJVH1UDA)

Played in Guelph with Bathgate, Howell and Prentice.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on August 03, 2017, 08:34:34 AM
Top line in those days for the NYR was, I think, Andy Bathgate and Dean Prentice, centered by Larry Popein. Prentice was from Ontario and The Pope was a Saskatchewan guy. Top three on the blue line were Howell, Leapin Lou Fontinato and Bill Gadsby (Alberta). Worsley in the net.
Sure looks like the Rangers had Manitoba locked down in those days. Don Raleigh, an elder citizen by the 50s, was also a Winnipeg guy on that team.
[/b]
Yes, I remember "Bones" - he was a skinny guy.

Yes, The Rangers had a big presence in Manitoba, especially because The Winnipeg Rangers were one of their couple of Junior A teams.  As I stated above, had I chosen to continue towards a pro hockey career, I'd have had to sign with The Rangers. There was no free agency then.  If I wanted to play in The NHL, and I was good enough, I'd have had to play for New York.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on August 03, 2017, 10:57:10 AM
Robb, You make it sound like it would've been a chore to suit up in the red, white and blue. Just think how it would've scratched two itches -- playing hockey and being in a vocal group collectors mecca.

Pretty much ALL the Rangers lived in Long Beach, Long Island back then. Nice location one of the "Five Towns," not far from JFK -- even if a bit of a ride to midtown Manhattan. Wonder if players from other teams did that too -- lived pretty much in the same area of town, or if that was unique to the Rangers?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on August 03, 2017, 01:47:36 PM
Joe--didn't  they  live in Long Beach?  That was where  Sawchuk  was killed in fight.

Although  playing in NY, it was never mentioned then that  Howell was  Jewish.

We all  knew about Koufax, Cal  Abrams  and Jake Pitler.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on August 03, 2017, 03:01:03 PM
Robb, You make it sound like it would've been a chore to suit up in the red, white and blue. Just think how it would've scratched two itches -- playing hockey and being in a vocal group collectors mecca.
Pretty much ALL the Rangers lived in Long Beach, Long Island back then. Nice location one of the "Five Towns," not far from JFK -- even if a bit of a ride to midtown Manhattan. Wonder if players from other teams did that too -- lived pretty much in the same area of town, or if that was unique to the Rangers?

That was pretty common for hockey players on a team to live near to each other in a few chosen neighbourhoods.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on August 03, 2017, 03:22:06 PM
Sorry Joe--u got Long Beach  rite,  but  it is farther east than 5  towns.   Hewlett, Woodmere, Lawrence,  Inwood  not sure of 5th.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on August 03, 2017, 04:54:48 PM
Sorry Joe--u got Long Beach  rite,  but  it is farther east than 5  towns.   Hewlett, Woodmere, Lawrence,  Inwood  not sure of 5th.
Thought Long Beach was the 5th but, you're right, Cedarhurst.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on November 07, 2017, 02:11:55 PM
Saw the back page of a NY Daily News from 1963. I had forgotten that the Rangers were almost universally referred to in newspapers back then as the "Blues." I'm sure it came from ther blue home sweaters. Wonder if St. Louis had to compensate the Rangers when they joined the league in 1967 for taking the Rangers' nickname?





 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on November 07, 2017, 05:38:19 PM
Saw the back page of a NY Daily News from 1963. I had forgotten that the Rangers were almost universally referred to in newspapers back then as the "Blues." I'm sure it came from ther blue home sweaters. Wonder if St. Louis had to compensate the Rangers when they joined the league in 1967 for taking the Rangers' nickname?
The Rangers were known more often as "The Broadway Blueshirts".  They were named after The Texas Rangers, because their first owner was from Texas.  No, The St. Louis Blues didn't have to compensate The Rangers.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on November 07, 2017, 06:03:20 PM
JOE-I recall Broadway Blues.   That ended in 1967.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on November 07, 2017, 08:40:18 PM
Saw the back page of a NY Daily News from 1963. I had forgotten that the Rangers were almost universally referred to in newspapers back then as the "Blues." I'm sure it came from ther blue home sweaters. Wonder if St. Louis had to compensate the Rangers when they joined the league in 1967 for taking the Rangers' nickname?
The Rangers were known more often as "The Broadway Blueshirts".  They were named after The Texas Rangers, because their first owner was from Texas.  No, The St. Louis Blues didn't have to compensate The Rangers.

Yeah, Just joking about the compensation. I think "Blues" was the preferred abbreviation for newspaper headlines as "Broadway Blueshirts" was too long.  interesting that they gave them the "Broadway" moniker because they played on 8th Avenue at the old MSG, not on Broadway. Guess Broadway was near enough.

Boy, the Original Six all had GREAT uniforms. As we've discussed, the Black Hawks sweater is an all-time great but ... fact is, the Habs, Wings, Rangers and Bruins were all great too. Maple Leafs, IMO, a cut below.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on November 08, 2017, 12:03:31 AM
Saw the back page of a NY Daily News from 1963. I had forgotten that the Rangers were almost universally referred to in newspapers back then as the "Blues." I'm sure it came from ther blue home sweaters. Wonder if St. Louis had to compensate the Rangers when they joined the league in 1967 for taking the Rangers' nickname?
The Rangers were known more often as "The Broadway Blueshirts".  They were named after The Texas Rangers, because their first owner was from Texas.  No, The St. Louis Blues didn't have to compensate The Rangers.

Yeah, Just joking about the compensation. I think "Blues" was the preferred abbreviation for newspaper headlines as "Broadway Blueshirts" was too long.  interesting that they gave them the "Broadway" moniker because they played on 8th Avenue at the old MSG, not on Broadway. Guess Broadway was near enough.

Boy, the Original Six all had GREAT uniforms. As we've discussed, the Black Hawks sweater is an all-time great but ... fact is, the Habs, Wings, Rangers and Bruins were all great too. Maple Leafs, IMO, a cut below.

And, of the "new" six teams, and all the expansion teams afterwards, The St. Louis Blue Note is, by far, the best.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on November 08, 2017, 12:44:37 PM
Broadway Blues is the moniker I recall. Seated in the rafters of the old Garden, at game's end they'd have the crowd exit via a series of fire escapes all the way down - always found that a little scary. I still have exactly one seat slat broken off by my repeated jumping (wearing sneakers of course) subsequent to the very last hockey game played at the old Garden (2-11-68 I believe). 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on November 08, 2017, 05:04:52 PM
The most  attention I get  from my  jersey collection is Blackhawks.   Cant believe so many fans, and everyone loves the logo. IMO--the best.

The cap I see by far the most around the world is Yankees.

Joe--Namath  played a bit far from  Bdway  too ;D ;D ;D ;D.

Remember  Joe & Mickey  had an employment agency?   Lasted couple  yrs.  Called  Joe's Girls & Mickey's guys.  Bizarre I know.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on November 08, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
Has the Blackhawks sweater been called out for being racist --- as have the Washington Redskins, Chief Nok-A-Homa with the Braves, and Chief Wahoo with the Cleveland Indians?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on November 08, 2017, 09:09:15 PM
Has the Blackhawks sweater been called out for being racist --- as have the Washington Redskins, Chief Nok-A-Homa with the Braves, and Chief Wahoo with the Cleveland Indians?
The Blackhawks were named for Illinois' Blackhawk Division of The US Army.  If I remember correctly, the team's logo was patterned after The US Army Blackhawk Division's official insignia, which, I believe, was taken from a painting or photograph of one of the last chieftans of Illinois' Blackhawk tribe.  Therefore, it is an homage to a real tribe, and so, not putting it in a bad light, nor disrespecting those Native American people.  Therefore, no one should be complaining.  The Cleveland Indians and Washington Redskins are a different situation, as they are not from India, and they don't have "red" skin (saying they have red skin could be construed as demeaning and derogatory).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on November 08, 2017, 09:13:29 PM
No  Joe.   In   1926--there was only one  chief  Blackhawk--he  welcomed  the logo. The Blackhawks  were not  a tribe.  I defer to Robb.

Nothing like  Redskins ,  Chiefs or  braves.  

I think  Joe Louis  loved his  "brown  bomber "  nickname.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on November 08, 2017, 09:17:57 PM
Robb-are  Chiefs, Braves  and  Warriors  OK?


being part Irish --I like  ND  Fighting Irish.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D And  I  ignore  the  very  racist  "paddy  wagon."  So what  --Irish drink.  That's  news?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on November 08, 2017, 09:41:51 PM
No  Joe.   In   1926--there was only one  chief  Blackhawk--he  welcomed  the logo. The Blackhawks  were not  a tribe.  I defer to Robb.

Nothing like  Redskins ,  Chiefs or  braves.  

I think  Joe Louis  loved his  "brown  bomber "  nickname.

Dan Snyder (Redskins owner) has a poll of Native Americans showing 90% are NOT offended. Chief Wahoo, the Indians logo, is the one really under heavy attack. A caricature of a NA with a big buck-toothed smile. I doubt that logo survives. Here it is, with a little history (love how the narrator pronounces Bill Veeck's name as Bill Veek):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs5xRROZRhA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs5xRROZRhA)


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on November 08, 2017, 09:44:51 PM
No  Joe.   In   1926--there was only one  chief  Blackhawk--he  welcomed  the logo. The Blackhawks  were not  a tribe.  I defer to Robb.

Nothing like  Redskins ,  Chiefs or  braves.  

I think  Joe Louis  loved his  "brown  bomber "  nickname.
Thanks for telling us about Chief Black Hawk.  The team was first called Chicago Black Hawks.  It was changed to one word, "Blackhawks" in modern times (late 1960s? 1970s?).  So, as the name venerates Chief Black Hawk for leading his people, the Sac (Sauk) and Fox Tribe) it can't be derogatory.  Black Hawk led his people in a war to keep their land in what is now Illinois,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    WE can best ask Native Americans which team names are offensive and which are not.  There are Native American groups on both sides of the fence about The Cleveland and Stanford and Springfield Indians, Washington Redskins and Braves, Warriors and Chiefs.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 18, 2017, 09:54:04 AM
Sort of a Williams-DiMaggio type argument but ... anyone with an opinion of which was the better player between Marcel Dionne and Guy LaFleur?

A lot in common. Both came into the league the very same year, both had great hype from their production in Juniors, both from Quebec, both ended up in the NHL HoF.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 18, 2017, 10:45:40 PM
Sort of a Williams-DiMaggio type argument but ... anyone with an opinion of which was the better player between Marcel Dionne and Guy LaFleur?

A lot in common. Both came into the league the very same year, both had great hype from their production in Juniors, both from Quebec, both ended up in the NHL HoF.

Both were great players.  I watched their entire careers, including some of their QMJHL Juniors games.  I'd say that Dionne was a slightly better player, as he had a better overall game, including being better on defence, and didn't avoid contact as much.  He had a little "chipiness" to his game, at times.  Also, Dionne played centre, and Lafleur right wing.  Centre, being the primary faceoff man on a line, and having a significantly larger area to cover on defence, and tougher man-to-man defensive responsibilities, and also tougher forechecking responibilities on offence, is a significantly more valuable position to a team than a winger.  Dionne also had a significantly longer "prime" or top-level playing period than did Lafleur, who got burnt out early.  Lafleur had 6 superstar years, and another 5-6 seasons as a star.  Whereas, Dionne had about 10-11 years as a superstar, and another 5-6 as a very, very effective player.

With hindsight, had I been Montr?al's GM, I might have picked Dionne.  But, at the time Lafleur was the "Golden Wonder" of Qu?bec, who could do no wrong for les Quebecers.  So, I might have been fired had I drafted Dionne.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 19, 2017, 09:52:17 AM
Robb, as usual excellent insight.

- LaFleur may have tried to avoid contact but remember how his face looked after Don Cherry's Bruins slashed it up in that Cup series? Wrapped in bandages.

- If LaFleur had gone to the Wings and Dionne to the Canadiens, do you think their careers would've been different? I mean, the Wings were mediocre when Dionne broke in, no? Maybe less mental pressure on Dionne but unlike Guy, not surrounded by same level of talent.

- As both were of French ancestry and from Quebec, was LaFleur THAT much more loved as a QMJHL star than Dionne?

- LaFleur's best single season was 60 goals and 132 points in 77-78. Wasn't that for the Canadiens team that only lost one home game all year?

- Dionne's best single season marks were 59 goals in 78-79 and 137 points the following year.

- Skating ability? Speed and quickness? I recall LaFleur being lauded for his "smooth" style of skating.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on December 19, 2017, 11:58:58 AM
Yeah but Dionne's home in the Los Angeles area for a few years was directly adjacent to my boss/s home so Marcel was better.  ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 19, 2017, 01:14:10 PM
Robb, as usual excellent insight.
- If LaFleur had gone to the Wings and Dionne to the Canadiens, do you think their careers would've been different? I mean, the Wings were mediocre when Dionne broke in, no? Maybe less mental pressure on Dionne but unlike Guy, not surrounded by same level of talent.
- As both were of French ancestry and from Quebec, was LaFleur THAT much more loved as a QMJHL star than Dionne?
 77-78. Wasn't that for the Canadiens team that only lost one home game all year?
- Skating ability? Speed and quickness? I recall LaFleur being lauded for his "smooth" style of skating.
YES, Lafleur was much more loved and coveted than was Dionne, because he was a much "flashier" player.  And, yes, he was a faster, quicker and "smoother looking" skater.  Dionne made up for that with more effort.  (Although he also was an excellent skater.  Yes, The Canadiens had an unbelievable home record that year.

Yes, their careers would have been very different with Detroit and L.A. vs. Montreal.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 19, 2017, 05:49:34 PM
Yeah but Dionne's home in the Los Angeles area for a few years was directly adjacent to my boss/s home so Marcel was better.  ;D

With the Rangers, the Canadian players (pretty much the entire team in the 50s) all congregated in Long Beach for their housing. As a barrier island, Long Beach afforded them privacy and easy proximity to each others' families for socializing. In the 50s (and maybe still today), Long Beach had loads of NYC cops and firemen living there. I imagine the hockey players in many cases didn't make a lot more money, so they fit in.

When Dionne played for the Kings in the mid 70s, I recall jack Kent Cooke paid him $300K in his first year there. Where did he live in LA? I imagine that salary would've gotten him into a place in BH, Bel Air, Holmby, Brentwood or the Palisades?

Where'd he get the nickname "Little Beaver"? Gotta be a story behind that.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 19, 2017, 06:36:20 PM
Where'd Dionne get the nickname "Little Beaver"? Gotta be a story behind that.

He was named after a famous Quebec midget wrestler with that name, because he was also small (for a hockey player), and looked uncannily like the wrestler, when the latter was young.  Lionel Giroux (1935 - 1995) was a Canadian midget wrestler, best known by his ring name Little Beaver.  He began his wrestling career in 1950, at the age of fifteen, and then began to wrestle for promoters in Quebec. He, along with Sky Low Low, became two of the most famous midget wrestlers who had enough drawing power to command a large portion of the live gate for wrestling events. Giroux helped to create the comedy matches that have since become a trademark for midget wrestling in Canada and the United States. His most famous appearance was in a six-man match at WrestleMania III for the World Wrestling Federation.  In 1973, Giroux won the Pro Wrestling Illustrated Midget Wrestler of the Year award.
(https://i.imgur.com/2EbGcdm.png)


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on December 19, 2017, 08:44:03 PM
Yeah but Dionne's home in the Los Angeles area for a few years was directly adjacent to my boss/s home so Marcel was better.  ;D

With the Rangers, the Canadian players (pretty much the entire team in the 50s) all congregated in Long Beach for their housing. As a barrier island, Long Beach afforded them privacy and easy proximity to each others' families for socializing. In the 50s (and maybe still today), Long Beach had loads of NYC cops and firemen living there. I imagine the hockey players in many cases didn't make a lot more money, so they fit in.

When Dionne played for the Kings in the mid 70s, I recall jack Kent Cooke paid him $300K in his first year there. Where did he live in LA? I imagine that salary would've gotten him into a place in BH, Bel Air, Holmby, Brentwood or the Palisades?

In the early to mid-80's Dionne lived in Palos Verdes.

Where'd he get the nickname "Little Beaver"? Gotta be a story behind that.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 19, 2017, 10:00:26 PM
Yeah but Dionne's home in the Los Angeles area for a few years was directly adjacent to my boss/s home so Marcel was better.  ;D

With the Rangers, the Canadian players (pretty much the entire team in the 50s) all congregated in Long Beach for their housing. As a barrier island, Long Beach afforded them privacy and easy proximity to each others' families for socializing. In the 50s (and maybe still today), Long Beach had loads of NYC cops and firemen living there. I imagine the hockey players in many cases didn't make a lot more money, so they fit in.

When Dionne played for the Kings in the mid 70s, I recall jack Kent Cooke paid him $300K in his first year there. Where did he live in LA? I imagine that salary would've gotten him into a place in BH, Bel Air, Holmby, Brentwood or the Palisades?

In the early to mid-80's Dionne lived in Palos Verdes.

Where'd he get the nickname "Little Beaver"? Gotta be a story behind that.

You quoted yourself,but didn't make a new post.  Any comment on my answering your question about Dionne's nickname?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 19, 2017, 10:31:29 PM
Yeah but Dionne's home in the Los Angeles area for a few years was directly adjacent to my boss/s home so Marcel was better.  ;D

With the Rangers, the Canadian players (pretty much the entire team in the 50s) all congregated in Long Beach for their housing. As a barrier island, Long Beach afforded them privacy and easy proximity to each others' families for socializing. In the 50s (and maybe still today), Long Beach had loads of NYC cops and firemen living there. I imagine the hockey players in many cases didn't make a lot more money, so they fit in.

When Dionne played for the Kings in the mid 70s, I recall jack Kent Cooke paid him $300K in his first year there. Where did he live in LA? I imagine that salary would've gotten him into a place in BH, Bel Air, Holmby, Brentwood or the Palisades?

In the early to mid-80's Dionne lived in Palos Verdes.

Where'd he get the nickname "Little Beaver"? Gotta be a story behind that.

That makes sense, living in the South Bay, in terms of travel to the Forum in Inglewood. Palos Verdes is very nice but ... with that money in those days, I'd have opted for one of the places I mentioned.

Guess Dionne was neighbors on the Peninsula with Boyce and Lee, of "Falcon And The Snowman" espionage/movie fame. They lived there at that time too. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 19, 2017, 10:41:07 PM
Robb, wonder how Marcel felt about people saying he was a dead ringer for Little Beaver?  Was he called that in French, or  just English? Most hockey nicknames for players from Quebec, you see both languages used. Couldn't find any reference to Little Beaver (as applied to Dionne) in French.

LaFleur was what? "The Flower' in English, and "Le Demon Blond" in French?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 19, 2017, 10:51:07 PM
Hockey trivia question. Who scored the most goals in NHL history by a draft-eligible player who went undrafted in the NHL Entry Draft? As you might suspect, that player is in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Clues to follow, if needed.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 19, 2017, 10:56:36 PM
Hockey trivia question. Who scored the most goals in NHL history by a draft-eligible player who went undrafted in the NHL Entry Draft? As you might suspect, that player is in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Clues to follow, if needed.
That leaves out a lot of players from 1917-1964, as The NHL Junior Draft didn't start until 1964-65.

Dino Cicerelli scored over 600, and Joey Mullen scored a little over 500.  Neither were drafted.  Cicerelli was severely injured in his last junior year.  Mullen had grown up playing street hockey in New York, and had question marks about his skating, and limited background in ice hockey.  I assume that both had been eligible to be drafted.  But, maybe this is a trick question?  If they were both eligible, Cicerelli is the answer.  But, since there are so many former New Yorkers on this thread, I'm thinking that memories of Mullen inspired this question.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 19, 2017, 11:07:52 PM
Hockey trivia question. Who scored the most goals in NHL history by a draft-eligible player who went undrafted in the NHL Entry Draft? As you might suspect, that player is in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Clues to follow, if needed.
That leaves out a lot of players from 1917-1964, as The NHL Junior Draft didn't start until 1964-65.

Was playing in the OMJHL when no one selected him in Entry Draft. Started playing minor hockey in 1975, debuted in NHL in 80-81 season. More clues available if needed.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 19, 2017, 11:12:12 PM
Hockey trivia question. Who scored the most goals in NHL history by a draft-eligible player who went undrafted in the NHL Entry Draft? As you might suspect, that player is in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Clues to follow, if needed.
That leaves out a lot of players from 1917-1964, as The NHL Junior Draft didn't start until 1964-65.

Was playing in the OMJHL when no one selected him in Entry Draft. Started playing minor hockey in 1975, debuted in NHL in 80-81 season. More clues available if needed.
I guess you mean Ciccerelli, who played for The London Knights.  But that league was The OHA (Ontario Hockey Association), at that time.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 19, 2017, 11:14:22 PM
Joe-I lived in Hermosa  awhile.  Only Lee  lived in PV--adopted  son of  doctor.  Not sure  where Boyce  was  from


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 19, 2017, 11:25:59 PM
Yeah, Robb, it was Dino. Was he from same hometown as Phil Esposito? Thought I read that somewhere. Or, played for same minor B team.

Interesting that Ciccarrelli was made to wait 8 years after becoming eligible for HoF to be voted in. Guess that Richardson hit and earlier indecent exposure charge were the problems. I remember with the Capitals he and a bunch of other players were accused of rape but charge was dropped. Always enjoyed watching him buzz around the ice. Pretty fearless for a relatively small guy. What was your take on his game?

Here he is sucker punching a Black Hawk. About 22 seconds into the clip (gotta reset the counter). Dropped the guy with one punch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2k6LMugIAE&t=37s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2k6LMugIAE&t=37s)


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 20, 2017, 12:23:06 AM
Yeah, Robb, it was Dino. Was he from same hometown as Phil Esposito? Thought I read that somewhere. Orr, played for same minor B team.
Pretty fearless for a relatively small guy. What was your take on his game?

No, Dino was from Sarnia Ont. (not far from Detroit) and Phil was from Sault Sainte Marie, Ont. in Western Ontario.  Dino was small, but played a very physical game.  He was a great skater, with lots of speed, and great edgework, allowing him balance and ability to make quick lateral moves, to get by opponents.  His physical game allowed him to stay in the tough areas near the goal crease and in the slot, and to get separation to get shots off.  He had an great wrist shot, super slap shot and a good snap shot.  He was an instinctive (natural) shooter.  He also had super offensive sense (being able to read plays, and anticipate what would happen).  He knew where to go, and got there in time to make plays.  He "saw the ice" very well.  He was one of the best pure goal scorers ever to play the game.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 20, 2017, 09:08:38 AM
Thanks, I definitely remember him setting up in front of the net and scoring on a lot of deflections and rebounds. As you say, rare for a small guy to be able to hold position right out in front like that.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on December 20, 2017, 11:41:30 AM
Yeah but Dionne's home in the Los Angeles area for a few years was directly adjacent to my boss/s home so Marcel was better.  ;D

With the Rangers, the Canadian players (pretty much the entire team in the 50s) all congregated in Long Beach for their housing. As a barrier island, Long Beach afforded them privacy and easy proximity to each others' families for socializing. In the 50s (and maybe still today), Long Beach had loads of NYC cops and firemen living there. I imagine the hockey players in many cases didn't make a lot more money, so they fit in.

When Dionne played for the Kings in the mid 70s, I recall jack Kent Cooke paid him $300K in his first year there. Where did he live in LA? I imagine that salary would've gotten him into a place in BH, Bel Air, Holmby, Brentwood or the Palisades?

In the early to mid-80's Dionne lived in Palos Verdes.

Where'd he get the nickname "Little Beaver"? Gotta be a story behind that.

You quoted yourself,but didn't make a new post.  Any comment on my answering your question about Dionne's nickname?

I did add this in response to Joe's question as to where Dionne lived in LA: "In the early to mid-80's Dionne lived in Palos Verdes.' However, it ended up within the body of the quoted section rather than below, no doubt attributable to "user error" (that would be me).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on December 20, 2017, 11:47:28 AM
Joe C/DDW,

Other PV luminaries of note, either raised or lived there (or both), include Bill Laimbeer, Don "Sluggo" Slaught, Matt Barnes, and......Buddy Ebsen.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 20, 2017, 01:35:29 PM
Joe C/DDW,

Other PV luminaries of note, either raised or lived there (or both), include Bill Laimbeer, Don "Sluggo" Slaught, Matt Barnes, and......Buddy Ebsen.

There used to be (probably stiill is) a private school on the peninsula where a lot of stars sent their kids in the 50s and 60s. Can't remember the name. Was Jay Bilas, the basketbll player/commentator, also from PV?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 20, 2017, 01:40:46 PM
Joe-I lived in Hermosa  awhile.  Only Lee  lived in PV--adopted  son of  doctor.  Not sure  where Boyce  was  from

Doc, book I have says both Boyce and Lee lived in Palos Verdes Estates and attended PVHS.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 20, 2017, 01:42:40 PM
Yeah but Dionne's home in the Los Angeles area for a few years was directly adjacent to my boss/s home so Marcel was better.  ;D

With the Rangers, the Canadian players (pretty much the entire team in the 50s) all congregated in Long Beach for their housing. As a barrier island, Long Beach afforded them privacy and easy proximity to each others' families for socializing. In the 50s (and maybe still today), Long Beach had loads of NYC cops and firemen living there. I imagine the hockey players in many cases didn't make a lot more money, so they fit in.

When Dionne played for the Kings in the mid 70s, I recall jack Kent Cooke paid him $300K in his first year there. Where did he live in LA? I imagine that salary would've gotten him into a place in BH, Bel Air, Holmby, Brentwood or the Palisades?

In the early to mid-80's Dionne lived in Palos Verdes.

Where'd he get the nickname "Little Beaver"? Gotta be a story behind that.

You quoted yourself,but didn't make a new post.  Any comment on my answering your question about Dionne's nickname?

I did add this in response to Joe's question as to where Dionne lived in LA: "In the early to mid-80's Dionne lived in Palos Verdes.' However, it ended up within the body of the quoted section rather than below, no doubt attributable to "user error" (that would be me).

I've done that more than once myself.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 20, 2017, 04:47:45 PM
Bilas  was;  dont know of any  private  schools  now  in PV.

I'll check on boyce--recall him being poorer,more blue collar.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 20, 2017, 05:42:41 PM
Joe  ---Boyce old man was a cop-FBI.  From Rancho PV  --rite next to PV.

Forgot he escaped   and  robbed many banks  before  getting caught.

Re old S. Allen post:  broken rib  punctured  a bld vessel.  Not his sons bed. ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 20, 2017, 06:50:45 PM
Bilas  was;  dont know of any  private  schools  now  in PV.

I'll check on boyce--recall him being poorer,more blue collar.

Boyce's father worked at TRW, the defense contractor in Redondo where the younger Boyce stole the documents. The father was high enough in the TRW hierarchy to get his son the job in the highly classified vault there. Think they were well enough off. Maybe not like Dr. Lee's family but ...

In my job back in the DC area, I knew the Dir of Security at TRW. Very high paying job but ... when something like that happens on your watch, it's tough. His health went downhill, heart attack, then "retirement." All too common a pattern when things go wrong. Even when you couldn't really be expected to know what every employee was doing, all the time.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 21, 2017, 01:50:31 AM
Boyce  recently  got out b/c  of the bank robberies.  At  20 yrs  per, and #17  banks  ,he should have  about 300 yrs  to go.

Remember wen TRW  was the  only credit  co  around?  Then Experian, Equifax  etc   


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 21, 2017, 09:15:07 AM
Boyce  recently  got out b/c  of the bank robberies.  At  20 yrs  per, and #17  banks  ,he should have  about 300 yrs  to go.

Remember wen TRW  was the only credit  co  around?  Then Experian, Equifax  etc   

Yep, remember that. My dealings were with the government contracting side of their business. They had their fingers in many different pies. Their HQ in Redondo Beach back in the day was near the intersection of Manhattan Beach Blvd and Inglewood Ave (just west of Hawthorne Blvd).

The private school I'm thinking of on the PV peninsula is the Chadwick School. On Academy Hill, near Crenshaw & PV Drive North. Christina Crawford, Maureen Reagan, Liza Minelli, Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone mag fame, Bruce Lee's son, one of the Brady Bunch kids, TV/B movie actress Pippa Scott went there. Still in operation.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 26, 2017, 08:32:51 PM
Robb, you must be excited by the current Winnipeg Jets roster. IMO, they are the NHLs Team of the Future. They are damn good right now. The young LW Nik Ehlers (from Denmark) to me is the most exciting young talent in the game today (he reminds me of Patrick Kane). Talk about speed, this young guy has it in spades. Just needs to get a little bigger and stronger. He's  21.

Then, there's Mark Scheifele, the 24 yr old Center; Patrick Laine, 19 yr old RW; and Kyle Connor, 21 yr old LW.  All excellent players now, and have All-Star potential. Add in veterans like Blake Wheeler, Bryan Little, Matthew Perrault, Dustin Byfuglien (injured last I looked) and they are formidable. I don't know enough about the goalie and defense situation to comment much other than Byfuglien when healthy has a helluva slap shot and Myers can score.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 26, 2017, 09:38:57 PM
Robb, you must be excited by the current Winnipeg Jets roster. IMO, they are the NHLs Team of the Future. They are damn good right now. The young LW Nik Ehlers (from Denmark) to me is the most exciting young talent in the game today (he reminds me of Patrick Kane). Talk about speed, this young guy has it in spades. Just needs to get a little bigger and stronger. He's  21.
Then, there's Mark Scheifele, the 24 yr old Center; Patrick Laine, 19 yr old RW; and Kyle Connor, 21 yr old LW.  All excellent players now, and have All-Star potential. Add in veterans like Blake Wheeler, Bryan Little, Matthew Perrault, Dustin Byfuglien (injured last I looked) and they are formidable. I don't know enough about the goalie and defense situation to comment much other than Byfuglien when healthy has a helluva slap shot and Myers can score.
They need to solidify their defence. and get a better goaltender.  But, yes, they will be one of the better NHL teams for many years.  I'm in Winnipeg now, visiting my sister.  It is -16F right now.  I'm watching The World Junior Hockey Tournament.  USA is playing my Denmark team.  I''m very familiar with Hockey Denmark, as I live in Denmark part year, and my best friend there lives near Herning, which is where The Dansk National team trains.  I have a friend there who is friendly with the coach.  So, over the past 15 years or so, I've gotten to meet a lot of the players, such as Lars Eller (his father is the current coach). I met Nik Ehlers and many of the players on recent national teams. I also work some in Malm?, Sweden. So, I watch games in both The SEL )Swedish Elite League= and Alsvenskan )their #2 league, where moat of the best Swedish and Danish players play before going to The NHL. I always watch all The Jets' games when staying in Winnipeg Dec/Jan each year.  I also attend a couple in person.  I, myself, played in the old Winnipeg Arena as a junior back near the beginning of the 1960s, back before we wore helmets.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 26, 2017, 09:59:35 PM
Joe--being  very poor,  ;D ;D ;D never heard of  Chadwick. But nothing in h.s.sports


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 27, 2017, 09:19:04 AM
Joe--being  very poor,  ;D ;D ;D never heard of  Chadwick. But nothing in h.s.sports

"Chadwick's main rivals are Polytechnic School in Pasadena, California and Flintridge Preparatory School in La Cañada, California. Chadwick participates in 23 Varsity CIF sports. They include boys' football, tennis, volleyball, waterpolo, basketball, soccer, baseball, etc."

That's from Wiki. I'm sure they "participate" at the lowest level of CIF competition. Lindsey Davenport, the girls' tennis player, apparently went there and is their most famous athlete.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 27, 2017, 02:28:02 PM
Joe--correct--not  compete with st John Bosco, Serra  or mater dei.  etc


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 27, 2017, 04:39:23 PM
Joe--correct--not  compete with st John Bosco, Serra  or mater dei.  etc

Or even a Harvard-Westlake in Studio City.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 27, 2017, 06:46:34 PM
RIP  all. JC  Caroline,  Jim Rivera, Steve Snapper Jones, and for u Robb  Noel Picard.  (in my collector  mag.)

And Johnny Bower.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 27, 2017, 10:10:30 PM
RIP  all. JC  Caroline,  Jim Rivera, Steve Snapper Jones, and for u Robb  Noel Picard.  (in my collector  mag.)And Johnny Bower.
Johnny Bower must have been over 90.  He was already old when he got to The NHL.  He was buried in the minors for 10 years on The Cleveland Barons when The Canadiens had Jaques Plante in his heyday.  I'm a big fan of Noel Picard as well.  I met him at Chicago Stadium in a Hawks/Habs pre-game, but used to talk to him a lot at Blues/Hawks games, as I did with all The Blues' players, because Ab McDonald, who played for them for 6 years, was a neighbour and his parents were family friends of ours back in Winnipeg during the late '40s and '50s.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 27, 2017, 11:14:21 PM
Bower  was around  93.  I knew  that Robb  would  know  Picard.  isn't he in the background  of that  great photo  of Bobby Orr  diving after a score?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 27, 2017, 11:42:11 PM
Bower  was around  93.  I knew  that Robb  would  know  Picard. Isn't he in the background  of that  great photo  of Bobby Orr  diving after a score?
Yes.  He and Jimmy Roberts were the defencemen.  Roberts wasn't in the photo.  Glenn Hall was the goalie.  One Blues' forward was in the photo, - centre Red Berenson.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 28, 2017, 10:13:24 AM
Speaking of Red Berenson (he of the 6 goals in one game). Best three NHLers nicknamed "Red" -- Red Kelly, Red Berenson and Red Sullivan???

Trivia: Whose nickname was "Sweet Lou from the Soo?"


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 28, 2017, 11:24:39 AM
Speaking of Red Berenson (he of the 6 goals in one game). Best three NHLers nicknamed "Red" -- Red Kelly, Red Berenson and Red Sullivan???

Trivia: Whose nickname was "Sweet Lou from the Soo?"

Lou Nanne of The Minnesota North Stars.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 28, 2017, 11:36:12 AM
Yep (on Nanne).

Can you name the one other player (since 1950) who also scored 6 in one game?

Interesting on Berenson that none of his six goals were on the power play. Also, that Philly kept Doug Favell in the net the whole game (think he gave up 8 goals in all).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 28, 2017, 01:30:23 PM
How guys grow--would Elmer "Moose"  Vasko  be called  moose now?   Think he was  maybe 6:2--220 or so :D :D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 28, 2017, 01:50:31 PM
How guys grow--would Elmer "Moose"  Vasko  be called  moose now?   Think he was  maybe 6:2--220 or so :D :D

He was huge back then.  Now he'd be an average sized defenceman.  Back then, there were 5 ft. 7 165 lb forwards, even 5' 5".


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 28, 2017, 01:55:09 PM
Yep (on Nanne).

Can you name the one other player (since 1950) who also scored 6 in one game?

Interesting on Berenson that none of his six goals were on the power play. Also, that Philly kept Doug Favell in the net the whole game (think he gave up 8 goals in all).

I think Darryl Sittler did.  But I spent little time in North America between 1971 and 1978, and didn't have Internet streams to watch games.  So, I'm fairly weak on The 1970s.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 28, 2017, 06:17:50 PM
Yep (on Nanne).

Can you name the one other player (since 1950) who also scored 6 in one game?

Interesting on Berenson that none of his six goals were on the power play. Also, that Philly kept Doug Favell in the net the whole game (think he gave up 8 goals in all).

I think Darryl Sittler did.  But I spent little time in North America between 1971 and 1978, and didn't have Internet streams to watch games.  So, I'm fairly weak on The 1970s.

Yeah, Sittler got six in 1976. He had 10 points in that game against the Bruins. All the six goals and the four assists were against a rookie goalie. Toronto scored 11. 

My favorite Leaf from the mid 70s was Sittler's buddy, Lanny McDonald, with that big, bushy mustache. Real hard wrist shot if I recall.

Liked Dave Keon too. That little guy played pro hockey forever. I remember two of my Ranger faves, Andy Hebenton and Camille Henry, won the Lady Byng Trophy back to back in the late 50s, and Keon won it twice in a row when he was first breaking in. Henry and Keon (both times) only took 2 penalty minutes in each of the seasons they won the trophy.

Robb, can you shed some light on how the majority of the players in the NHL viewed Lady Byng winners back in our day? I know it's an award based on being a "gentleman" and being skilled but ... did it also reflect negatively on a player's willingness to "mix it up?" In other words, maybe a trophy you didn't want to win?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 28, 2017, 11:43:44 PM
Liked Dave Keon too. That little guy played pro hockey forever. I remember two of my Ranger faves, Andy Hebenton and Camille Henry, won the Lady Byng Trophy back to back in the late 50s, and Keon won it twice in a row when he was first breaking in. Henry and Keon (both times) only took 2 penalty minutes in each of the seasons they won the trophy.  Robb, can you shed some light on how the majority of the players in the NHL viewed Lady Byng winners back in our day? I know it's an award based on being a "gentleman" and being skilled but ... did it also reflect negatively on a player's willingness to "mix it up?" In other words, maybe a trophy you didn't want to win?

Fresh from watching USA Juniors lose in a big upset to Slovakia.  That means that it absolutely desperation time for USA vs, Canada tomorrow on the outdoor rink in The NFL Bills' stadium.  Should be a good game. 
Yes, winning The Lady Byng Trophy had sort of a slight stigma to it, especially if the winner shied away from contact, and going to the tough areas.  No one expected a little guy like Camille Henry to get into a lot of fights.  It was the goons' job to protect the little skilled forwards.  But, a lot of the little skilled players went to the tough areas and played a very scrappy game.  Stan Mikita was a great example of that.  Of course he also used his stick on players and started fights.  But, there were a lot of players who played a physical game and fought hard for position in front of the net, and fought hard on the boards for puck possession, but just took very few penalties, and they scored a lot.  So, they won The Lady Byng.  I don't think those players were looked down upon or made fun of, because they played a tough game, and helped their team, and even stood up for their teammates.  They just didn't take many 5 minute penalties (most of which came from fighting).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 29, 2017, 09:16:12 AM
Yeah, Mikita won back to back Lady Byng's so you're right, you could be scrappy and still win it.

The only players to win the trophy with MORE than 30 penalty minutes were Bobby Hull, Jari Kurri, and Wayne Gretzky. With their skill level, I'm sure there was a lot of provocation for them to occasionally get caught retaliating to.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 29, 2017, 12:48:11 PM
Robb -I see the Golden Knights  are the Vegas G N (not  LAS  Vegas).   

This may be the 1st time in a major sport  that  the  home  city  name is shortened.  Why?  Only Bettman knows.   I  dont like some teams being named  after the state, instead  of city either.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 29, 2017, 03:12:20 PM
Yeah, Mikita won back to back Lady Byng's so you're right, you could be scrappy and still win it.
The only players to win the trophy with MORE than 30 penalty minutes were Bobby Hull, Jari Kurri, and Wayne Gretzky. With their skill level, I'm sure there was a lot of provocation for them to occasionally get caught retaliating to.
I
In the 1940s and '50s, pro hockey was a brutal game.  The refs called less penalties and there was no league policy to protect players from severe injuries.  There were a LOT more official fights and "roughing" (essentially fights not given fighting penalties.  Players had to stand up for themselves and their teammates, unless they were extremely small, and their combatant was much bigger and stronger.  Highly skilled players were battered constantly.  Most of them got oin some fights to show that they couldn't be intimidated.  Just like at school, you had to prove yourself, or the bullies would eat you alive.  So, very few players had less than 35-40 PIM.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 29, 2017, 03:35:51 PM
As rough as the 50s game was, when I think of "enforcers", the only players that come to mind are the Red Wings and Canadiens top lines (those guys were rough as well as great), then guys like Lou Fontinato, Al Arbour, Eddie Shack, Moose Vasko, Fern Flaman, Jack Evans, Forbes  Kennedy, Leo Boivin, Carl Brewer, and Tom Johnson. Who am I missing?

Oh, forgot Doug Mohns.




Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 29, 2017, 04:11:56 PM
As rough as the 50s game was, when I think of "enforcers", the only players that come to mind are the Red Wings and Canadiens top lines (those guys were rough as well as great), then guys like Lou Fontinato, Al Arbour, Eddie Shack, Moose Vasko, Fern Flaman, Jack Evans, Forbes  Kennedy, Leo Boivin, Carl Brewer, and Tom Johnson. Who am I missing? Oh, forgot Doug Mohns.
There were about one per team - usually a big defencman.  No way would I call Doug Mohns an "enforcer".  Forbes Kennedy was certainly on the ice ONLY because he was tough and could fight.  Reg Fleming, also. 

I have no time to think about this now.  I'm in Winnipeg, among family, busy watching The Canada/US game in The World Juniors Tournament, which is just about as big to us as The Stanley Cup, as we generally have connections to one or 2 of the Canadian kids playing.  I, myself, usually know most of the kids on The Danish team, as my best friend in Denmark, with whom I stay for a few weeks each year, lives in Herning, where the national team trains, and is friendly with some of the coaches and workers there.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 29, 2017, 08:41:38 PM
Robb, enjoy the Tournament! Guess my memory of Mohns was skewed by time. I do recall he was one of the first to wear a helmet!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 29, 2017, 10:20:56 PM
Arbour-with glasses?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 29, 2017, 11:43:31 PM
Robb, enjoy the Tournament! Guess my memory of Mohns was skewed by time. I do recall he was one of the first to wear a helmet

Dougie was tough for a little guy and skilled player.  But he was no "enforcer".  Yes, he was one of the first to wear a helmet (because of a head injury).  Camille and Phil Goyette, also,  Jean-Guy Talbot also, later wore a helmet, which was ironic, because a hit from him to Scotty Bowman's head, in Junior play, ended Scotty's career as a player.  He played for The Montreal Junior Canadiens (so you know he was good).  Further irony was that Talbot played his last few years with Scotty's Blues.  But they were good friends.  That's something about hockey that wouldn't occur in the other major North American team sports. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 30, 2017, 09:23:54 AM
For that era, 6', 185 wasn't little. Unless those ht/wt numbers were bogus. Did they do that in hockey, like they did/do in other sports? Didn't Mohns also start out on the Blue Line, then was moved to winger because he had good speed.

Different subject: In 1961, Montreal's population was around 1,200,000; Toronto's was 670,000. Montreal was 44% larger.

In 2016, things had flipped. Toronto has 2,700,000 and Montreal a million less people at 1,700,000. Since 1960, Montreal has grown by 40% or so; Toronto by an astronomical 290%. What happened? Did Toronto "annex" suburbs? Other factors?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 30, 2017, 02:52:31 PM
Know  Ryan  Van Den  Busch--enforcer--only could  fite. Ended  at least one  promising career.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on December 30, 2017, 03:07:20 PM
Joe--being  very poor,  ;D ;D ;D never heard of  Chadwick. But nothing in h.s.sports

"Chadwick's main rivals are Polytechnic School in Pasadena, California and Flintridge Preparatory School in La Cañada, California. Chadwick participates in 23 Varsity CIF sports. They include boys' football, tennis, volleyball, waterpolo, basketball, soccer, baseball, etc."

That's from Wiki. I'm sure they "participate" at the lowest level of CIF competition. Lindsey Davenport, the girls' tennis player, apparently went there and is their most famous athlete.


Most of the small private schools compete against others in the same category. Close to Chadwick geographically are Country Day and Rolling Hills Prep (RHP). The RHP baseball team is coached by the same guy that coached my kids' "club" team. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on December 30, 2017, 03:08:42 PM
RIP  all. JC  Caroline,  Jim Rivera, Steve Snapper Jones, and for u Robb  Noel Picard.  (in my collector  mag.)

And Johnny Bower.

Me thinks you and I subscribe to the same sports memorabilia magazine. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on December 30, 2017, 03:10:56 PM
Robb, enjoy the Tournament! Guess my memory of Mohns was skewed by time. I do recall he was one of the first to wear a helmet!

Another early helmet wearer was fan un-favorite Larry Jeffrey. We mercilessly booed him every time he stepped on the ice - with some not terribly kind chants. It didn't help that he could not put the puck in the net.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on December 30, 2017, 03:12:42 PM
Johnny Bower, one of my favorites, was reportedly 93 when he passed.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 30, 2017, 08:56:31 PM
Mike--prob so.  I  dont  usually  read obits,except in the Sports  mag ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 30, 2017, 10:34:03 PM
As rough as the 50s game was, when I think of "enforcers", the only players that come to mind are the Red Wings and Canadiens top lines (those guys were rough as well as great), then guys like Lou Fontinato, Al Arbour, Eddie Shack, Moose Vasko, Fern Flaman, Jack Evans, Forbes  Kennedy, Leo Boivin, Carl Brewer, and Tom Johnson. Who am I missing? Oh, forgot Doug Mohns.

Back during the 1950s there weren't that many "enforcers", because many of the regular skilled players were tough, and could fight their own fights (Gordie Howe, Rocket Richard, Ted Lindsay, Tim Horton, Tom Johnson, Black Jack Stewart, Butch Bouchard, etc.) - The only real "enforcers" back then who weren't tremendously valuable to their teams in other ways, were Lou Fontinato, Forbes Kennedy and Reggie Fleming.  The "Goon"enforcer, only good at fighting, didn't come in until the late '60s and ran all the way through about 2005.  Nowadays, when defencemen can no longer grab and hold players, or flatten them from behind without getting a penalty, there are only a couple "Goons" left.  Most teams can't afford to waste a roster position on someone who can't skate, score or defend.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 31, 2017, 03:21:14 AM
Tim  Horton--what happened -killed  in car accident?    Must have been bright. Turned a good, not great,  NHL  career  into millions  with his  restaurant chain.

Sort of like  Celtic (briefly)  Togo  Palazzi-  with his chain of  sandwich shops.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on December 31, 2017, 09:39:29 AM
I saw Leapin' Lou play dozens of games at the old MSG. He considered himself an enforcer (the 200+ PIM, when that was unheard of) but I think he took far more incoming than he gave out. Ended up paralyzed for a month. Here's a clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczNJVH1UDA&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczNJVH1UDA&t=1s)

Robb, am I wrong in thinking there seemed to be an inordinate number of NHL players from Guelph, the city not necessarily the team? Lou's hometown.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on December 31, 2017, 02:58:03 PM
Tim  Horton--what happened -killed  in car accident?    Must have been bright. Turned a good, not great,  NHL  career  into millions  with his  restaurant chain.

Sort of like  Celtic (briefly)  Togo  Palazzi-  with his chain of  sandwich shops.

Yes, Tim was killed while driving drunk. Hockey players back in the day were notorious for their alcohol consumption - e.g. Sawchuck-Stewart fight. The fast food chain may be worth much, but I don't think Tim saw too much of the bounty.  Wiki claims his widow ended up with a grand total of $1MM - no more. While not exactly chump change, not "millions" either.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on December 31, 2017, 03:35:55 PM
I saw Leapin' Lou play dozens of games at the old MSG. He considered himself an enforcer (the 200+ PIM, when that was unheard of) but I think he took far more incoming than he gave out. Ended up paralyzed for a month. Here's a clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczNJVH1UDA&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczNJVH1UDA&t=1s)

Robb, am I wrong in thinking there seemed to be an inordinate number of NHL players from Guelph, the city not necessarily the team? Lou's hometown.
No.  Not wrong.  Guelph had a few public rinks plus one of the best Junior A teams, The Guelph Biltmores.  Many of the great NHL players and coaches came out of Guelph.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on December 31, 2017, 03:49:37 PM
Well  would  have been  millions   if  he  didn't drink.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on January 01, 2018, 12:46:06 PM
DDW,

This is true.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 02, 2018, 02:49:16 PM
Las Vegas Golden Knights were 500-1 to win Stanley Cup in pre-season. Now, odds are down to 8-1. How can an inaugural team be this good?

I recall when my adopted Capitals came into the league in 1974-75 as an expansion team. They went 8-67-5, with only one road win (their opener). They lost four games by 10 or more goals! 15 players with -40 or worse (one was -82). Didn't have a winning season until their 9th year in existence. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 02, 2018, 04:16:18 PM
Road  teams in Vegas  get no  sleep. ;D ;D ;D

Seriously  how do  home/road records compare?

Think teams cant protect as many as  they   once could.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 02, 2018, 05:23:23 PM
That must be the case, Doctor (not being able to protect as many players). Still, Vegas GKs are amazing! In the Capitals, KC Scouts, Califiornia Golden Seals days, the NHL raped the new teams financially, then ensured they'd never contend for a decade or more.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 02, 2018, 08:08:30 PM
I  had to  check Joe-I was right--their  home  record is  about .900,road is about  .600.The NHL guys do  party.Even their  chauffeurs--recall  Red Wings?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 02, 2018, 08:29:35 PM
Anyone have any thoughts about the NHL's likely expansion into three more cities -- Seattle, Houston, and a return to Quebec City?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 02, 2018, 11:06:01 PM
Seattle--prob w/arena  -why Sonics  left. Too  close to  Vancouver?

Houston-sure-supported  Aeros.

QCity--not sure-why did  Nordiques  leave.Too close to   Montreal?   



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 03, 2018, 08:29:20 AM
Doctor, from what I've read, Houston is the #1 city for NHL expansion. You'd think Seattle, if serious, is large enough to build new arena. Think QC lost Nordiques because the market was just too small?



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 03, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Doctor, from what I've read, Houston is the #1 city for NHL expansion. You'd think Seattle, if serious, is large enough to build new arena. Think QC lost Nordiques because the market was just too small?
Quebec lost The Nordiques mostly because The Canadian Dollar collapsed vs. The US Dollar.  The Winnipeg Jets also lost their franchise then, for the same reason.  The new Jets are doing fine now.  So, I believe that Quebec will return to The NHL.  They ARE a very small market, but I believe they can support an NHL team - just as Hamilton can, and Saskatoon, Regina and probably Halifax can (despite having small population bases), because such a high % of their metro populations would be ardent fans.  The Toronto and Montreal metro areas could each likely support 4 NHL teams.

I think Seattle will get the next expansion team, by 2020.

Las Vegas got a much better deal, player acquisition-wise, getting 3 1st Round of the Junior Draft, plus having had the existing teams allowed to protect significantly less players than in all previous expansion drafts.  The bad part for Las Vegas haters (like me), who don't want desert teams and tropical city teams in The NHL, is that The Golden Knights will likely have success for many years to come, as they have traded off excess current NHL ready talent, they outbid other teams to procure and signed as free agents, for relatively high future draft choices.  They own more young talented future NHL prospects than any other NHL team.  This whole expansion to Las Vegas is disgusting. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 03, 2018, 12:53:01 PM
Seattle--prob w/arena  -why Sonics  left. Too  close to  Vancouver?
Houston-sure-supported  Aeros.
QCity--not sure-why did  Nordiques  leave.Too close to   Montreal?   

Seattle will be an excellent market for an NHL team, as a natural rival to Vancouver.  They used to have a rival league to The NHL, with a Seattle team, who played annually against The NHL, for The Stanley Cup.  Seattle has had a team in Canada's Major Junior, Western Hockey League for over half a century, so that city is used to a high level of hockey.  Their Western Hockey League (pro league on AHL level from 1950s through 2000s) has always drawn well.  They should be very successful, and are already slated to be the next NHL franchise, playing in a refurbished Key Arena, temporarily, until a new arena is built.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 03, 2018, 12:55:05 PM
Doctor, from what I've read, Houston is the #1 city for NHL expansion. You'd think Seattle, if serious, is large enough to build new arena. Think QC lost Nordiques because the market was just too small?
Quebec lost The Nordiques mostly because The Canadian Dollar collapsed vs. The US Dollar.  The Winnipeg Jets also lost their franchise then, for the same reason.  The new Jets are doing fine now.  So, I believe that Quebec will return to The NHL.  They ARE a very small market, but I believe they can support an NHL team - just as Hamilton can, and Saskatoon, Regina and probably Halifax can (despite having small population bases), because such a high % of their metro populations would be ardent fans.  The Toronto and Montreal metro areas could each likely support 4 NHL teams.

I think Seattle will get the next expansion team, by 2020.

Las Vegas got a much better deal, player acquisition-wise, getting 3 1st Round of the Junior Draft, plus having had the existing teams allowed to protect significantly less players than in all previous expansion drafts.  The bad part for Las Vegas haters (like me), who don't want desert teams and tropical city teams in The NHL, is that The Golden Knights will likely have success for many years to come, as they have traded off excess current NHL ready talent, they outbid other teams to procure and signed as free agents, for relatively high future draft choices.  They own more young talented future NHL prospects than any other NHL team.  This whole expansion to Las Vegas is disgusting. 

Robb, About Vegas, I agree with you. Bet most of the tourists (be interesting to know what % of the crowd they make up), don't know even the most basic things about the game. Just an "event" to them. Sorta cheapens the product. I know the Caps hated having to give up D Nate Schmidt (former Minnesota Golden Gopher), a rising star.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 03, 2018, 01:21:18 PM
Robb-I assume u  don't  like  Miami, Tampa, Phoenix, or San Jose?  I don't either.

If GB  can support  Packers agree about  Quebac.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 03, 2018, 02:37:37 PM
Notwithstanding the draft rule changes in their favor, I still think what Vegas has done on the ice is nothing short of amazing. Has to be the best performance of a 1st year expansion team in any of the major sports ever - certainly within my lifetime.  Slightly better than my beloved '62 Mets. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 03, 2018, 07:36:09 PM
Notwithstanding the draft rule changes in their favor, I still think what Vegas has done on the ice is nothing short of amazing. Has to be the best performance of a 1st year expansion team in any of the major sports ever - certainly within my lifetime.  Slightly better than my beloved '62 Mets. 

Probably so, given that the 1901 American League (Baseball), and The Cleveland Browns(former AAC), and AFL and ABA and WHA teams were all "rogue leagues", all had the ability to sign any talents they wanted, by not following the existing major league rules.  However, I think that The 1967 St. Louis Blues, are right up there with them, as they were really the only NHL expansion team given no breaks at all in acquiring talent (they got the shaft, and no chance to draft Juniors -as all Junior talent was owned by the 6 original teams).  But their success was watered down a bit by them not having to play an Original 6 Eastern Division team until The Stanley Cup final.  But, The Blues were better than Toronto and Detroit in 1967-71, and held their own against The Rangers at that time.  They were for real.  They lost 4 straight to The Canadiens in the '68 Finals, but 2 of the 4 games went to OT, and the other two were 1-goal games.  The Golden Knights have yet to play a playoff game.  And the "serious hockey has only started for the last 2 games since The All Star Break.  So, we will see.  But, with their games won already, they will certainly make the playoffs (which is already a great achievement).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 03, 2018, 08:27:10 PM
mike--Press--"Why was  Hobie  Landrith  your # 1 pick?"


Casey--"W/O  a catcher u get a lot of  passed  balls." ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 03, 2018, 08:41:26 PM
Robb-I assume u  don't  like  Miami, Tampa, Phoenix, or San Jose?  I don't either.

If GB  can support  Packers agree about  Quebac.

Anyone think Green Bay would have a snowball's chance of landing an NFL franchise these days? They lucked out. Do they still play a game or two in Milwaukee every year? I don't recall one recently though I may just have missed it. More likely they're playing in England these days I guess.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 03, 2018, 09:37:54 PM
Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 03, 2018, 09:48:45 PM
Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.

I looked it up and the Packers played 2-4 games a year in Milwaukee from 1953-1994. More games than I thought! Wonder what the temperature difference between the two cities was for the Ice Bowl (New Year's Eve of '67?)? Regardless, I'm sure that was never an option.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 04, 2018, 01:28:47 AM
Notwithstanding the draft rule changes in their favor, I still think what Vegas has done on the ice is nothing short of amazing. Has to be the best performance of a 1st year expansion team in any of the major sports ever - certainly within my lifetime.  Slightly better than my beloved '62 Mets. 

Probably so, given that the 1901 American League (Baseball), and The Cleveland Browns(former AAC), and AFL and ABA and WHA teams were all "rogue leagues", all had the ability to sign any talents they wanted, by not following the existing major league rules.  However, I think that The 1967 St. Louis Blues, are right up there with them, as they were really the only NHL expansion team given no breaks at all in acquiring talent (they got the shaft, and no chance to draft Juniors -as all Junior talent was owned by the 6 original teams).  But their success was watered down a bit by them not having to play an Original 6 Eastern Division team until The Stanley Cup final.  But, The Blues were better than Toronto and Detroit in 1967-71, and held their own against The Rangers at that time.  They were for real.  They lost 4 straight to The Canadiens in the '68 Finals, but 2 of the 4 games went to OT, and the other two were 1-goal games.  The Golden Knights have yet to play a playoff game.  And the "serious hockey has only started for the last 2 games since The All Star Break.  So, we will see.  But, with their games won already, they will certainly make the playoffs (which is already a great achievement).

Robb, I believe I have some vague recollection of the "original" expansion SL Blues. Al Arbour perhaps? Plus Red Berenson, the Plager's, Glenn Hall in net?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 04, 2018, 03:36:29 AM
Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.

I looked it up and the Packers played 2-4 games a year in Milwaukee from 1953-1994. More games than I thought! Wonder what the temperature difference between the two cities was for the Ice Bowl (New Year's Eve of '67?)? Regardless, I'm sure that was never an option.
Maybe 2-4 degrees, at most.  In winter, the only difference between them would be if the cold front was between them, and that might only last a few hours.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 04, 2018, 09:58:06 AM
Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.

I looked it up and the Packers played 2-4 games a year in Milwaukee from 1953-1994. More games than I thought! Wonder what the temperature difference between the two cities was for the Ice Bowl (New Year's Eve of '67?)? Regardless, I'm sure that was never an option.
Maybe 2-4 degrees, at most.  In winter, the only difference between them would be if the cold front was between them, and that might only last a few hours.

Makes sense. Both on the Lake.

Weather-related: Do all the Great Lakes produce bands of "Lake Effect" snow to the cities surrounding them? Or, just Lake Erie? Here in the East that's the one we always hear about (with Buffalo and its southern suburbs). I know Chicago normally gets a ton of snow but ... same meteorologic conditions, or no?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 04, 2018, 12:08:51 PM
Weather-related: Do all the Great Lakes produce bands of "Lake Effect" snow to the cities surrounding them? Or, just Lake Erie? Here in the East that's the one we always hear about (with Buffalo and its southern suburbs). I know Chicago normally gets a ton of snow but ... same meteorologic conditions, or no?
Yes, ALL 5 Great lakes produce lake effect snowstorms.  The difference between Buffalo, Erie, Cleveland and Chicago, Milwaukee, Green Bay and Duluth, is that the former group's cities lie to the east of the lakes, and the latter's to the west.  So, the lake effect snows come from different directions.  All storms track west to east, arriving on the Northern Hemisphere Jet Stream.  These storms move, generally, from west towards the east, but arrive spinning in a circular cyclonic motion.  When the colder air, passes over the warmer water, it picks up moisture from the lakes, which are warmer than the land.  When it then flows over the colder land, it drops that moisture, which turned into snow by having mixed above with the colder air from the incoming cold front, and the colder air over the colder land.  That evaporated water, turned colder, becomes ice crystals, which aggregate and become heavier, and fall as snow.  A LOT more snow falls near the lake than inland, because of the water in the warmer air.  The cities WEST of the lakes get their snow on the westward movement of the cyclonic circular movement, on the northern swing of that motion (e.g off Lake Michigan, and in Detroit and Toledo, from Lake Erie, The Detroit River, and lake St. Clair.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 04, 2018, 12:28:33 PM
Robb, I believe I have some vague recollection of the "original" expansion SL Blues. Al Arbour perhaps? Plus Red Berenson, the Plager's, Glenn Hall in net?
The 1967-71 Blues had Glenn Hall and Jacques Plante in net, Al Arbour, Noel Picard, Barclay and Bob Plager, Jean-Guy Talbot, Doug Harvey and jimmy Roberts on defence, and forwards: Red Berenson, Phil Goyette, Dickie Moore, Camille Henry, Gary Sabourin, Terry Gray, Ab McDonald (my Winnipeg neighbour), Don McKenney, Frank St. Marseille, Tim Ecclestone, Terry Crisp, Larry Keenan and Bill McCreary.

They were competitive instantly.  They led their all-time series against both Detroit and Toronto until Detroit started winning big in the 1980s, based on heavily scouting and drafting European players.  Hall and Plante gave them impregnable goaltending, they had a very strong, tough and smothering defence, and Berenson and Goyette were all stars in The NHL's Top 10 in scoring, and St. Marseille, Sabourin, McDonald, Henry and others gave them enough supporting goal scoring.  They were the most successful expansion team until The Vegas Golden Knights.  I became a Blackhawks fan during the early 1950s because there was no NHL team in Winnipeg, and my neighbour and son of our family friends, Ab McDonald, was a farmhand of The Blackhawks.  I was their fan also for the 10 years he played left wing for them.  I became a Blues fan when he was traded to St. Louis.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 04, 2018, 01:51:27 PM
Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.

I looked it up and the Packers played 2-4 games a year in Milwaukee from 1953-1994. More games than I thought! Wonder what the temperature difference between the two cities was for the Ice Bowl (New Year's Eve of '67?)? Regardless, I'm sure that was never an option.
Maybe 2-4 degrees, at most.  In winter, the only difference between them would be if the cold front was between them, and that might only last a few hours.

All I can add is I spent 9 months, including the dead of winter, commuting weekly to Milwaukee in '96. There was a 2 week period in which the temperature did not break zero, day or night. The day it hit -16F in the morning, I took a walk outside to "experience" it. The next day, I was gone (per work schedule) and it reached -26F. Sorry I missed it - Winnipeg-like perhaps?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 04, 2018, 01:54:34 PM
Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.

I looked it up and the Packers played 2-4 games a year in Milwaukee from 1953-1994. More games than I thought! Wonder what the temperature difference between the two cities was for the Ice Bowl (New Year's Eve of '67?)? Regardless, I'm sure that was never an option.
Maybe 2-4 degrees, at most.  In winter, the only difference between them would be if the cold front was between them, and that might only last a few hours.

Makes sense. Both on the Lake.

Weather-related: Do all the Great Lakes produce bands of "Lake Effect" snow to the cities surrounding them? Or, just Lake Erie? Here in the East that's the one we always hear about (with Buffalo and its southern suburbs). I know Chicago normally gets a ton of snow but ... same meteorologic conditions, or no?

I can tell you from personal experience (Rochester, NY) that Lake Ontario definitely produces "lake effect" snow (and lots of it in the 70's).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on February 04, 2018, 02:00:54 PM
Robb, I believe I have some vague recollection of the "original" expansion SL Blues. Al Arbour perhaps? Plus Red Berenson, the Plager's, Glenn Hall in net?
The 1967-71 Blues had Glenn Hall and Jacques Plante in net, Al Arbour, Noel Picard, Barclay and Bob Plager, Jean-Guy Talbot, Doug Harvey on defence, and forwards: Red Berenson, Phil Goyette, Dickie Moore, Camille Henry, Gary Sabourin, Terry Gray, Ab McDonald (my Winnipeg neighbour), Don McKenney, Frank St. Marseille, Tim Ecclestone, Terry Crisp, Larry Keenan.

They were competitive instantly.  They led their all-time series against both Detroit and Toronto until Detroit started winning big in the 1980s, based on heavily scouting and drafting European players.  Hall and Plante gave them impregnable goaltending, they had a very strong, tough and smothering defence, and Berenson and Goyette were all stars in The NHL's Top 10 in scoring, and St. Marseille, Sabourin, McDonald, Henry and others gave them enough supporting goal scoring.  They were the most successful expansion team until The Vegas Golden Knights.  I became a Blackhawks fan during the early 1950s because there was no NHL team in Winnipeg, and my neighbour and son of our family friends, Ab McDonald was a farmhand of The Blackhawks.  I became a Blues fan when he was traded to The Blues.

I looked up the roster. They assembled a bunch of veterans, old-timers, and castoffs that still had a lot left in the tank. Imagine a goaltending tandem of Hall and Plante! Hard to beat that then or now. I remember your telling us about your relationship to Ab McDonald, whom I remember - very cool. My personal best "closeness" to a real hockey player was frequenting a dry cleaner who claimed to have "grown up with" Gordie Howe" in Saskatchewan  ;D. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 04, 2018, 02:48:13 PM
Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.
They played in County Stadium.  I don't remember them ever playing in Miller Field.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 04, 2018, 02:51:13 PM
Tim  Horton--what happened -killed  in car accident?    Must have been bright. Turned a good, not great,  NHL  career  into millions  with his  restaurant chain.

Sort of like  Celtic (briefly)  Togo  Palazzi-  with his chain of  sandwich shops.

I would say that he had a great NHL career.  He was one of the Top 5 defencemen of his time.  He is in The Hockey Hall of Fame.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 04, 2018, 02:58:36 PM
All I can add is I spent 9 months, including the dead of winter, commuting weekly to Milwaukee in '96. There was a 2 week period in which the temperature did not break zero, day or night. The day it hit -16F in the morning, I took a walk outside to "experience" it. The next day, I was gone (per work schedule) and it reached -26F. Sorry I missed it - Winnipeg-like perhaps?
If it was -16F in Milwaukee, then it would likely be -30+ in Winnipeg.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 04, 2018, 04:05:38 PM
Sorry-Horton  in HOF?  Based  on play,or for  other reasons? --- Tragic death, business acumen.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 04, 2018, 05:20:55 PM
Sorry-Horton  in HOF?  Based  on play,or for  other reasons? --- Tragic death, business acumen.
He was elected in 1977, based solely on his playing career - one of the best defencemen of his time.  Nothing to do with his business or death.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 04, 2018, 05:59:25 PM
One of my all-time favorites -- Terrible Ted Lindsay. Think he's still alive, well into his 90s. He did the NYR TV play by play in the late 60s -- "That's layin' the lumber on 'em" was his catchphrase. Only 5'8 but would cheap shot/battle anyone. Of course he had Howe to protect him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq55H79lK9g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq55H79lK9g)


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 04, 2018, 07:46:18 PM
One of my all-time favorites -- Terrible Ted Lindsay. Think he's still alive, well into his 90s. He did the NYR TV play by play in the late 60s -- "That's layin' the lumber on 'em" was his catchphrase. Only 5'8 but would cheap shot/battle anyone. Of course he had Howe to protect him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq55H79lK9g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq55H79lK9g)

I saw Lindsay play, while he was still at the tail end of his prime, and still a very effective player.  Ted Lindsay was the toughest man, pound for pound, that I've ever seen.  I'm not just talking about hockey, but also my experience seeing street gangs in action.  Lindsay was "a little ball of hate".  He didn't need Howe to protect him.  He could even hold his own with bigger players.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 04, 2018, 08:46:32 PM
I saw him play in person once. In the 56-57 season against the NYR in the old MSG. He scored 30 goals that season (back when that was really an accomplishment). I should have phrased that better about Howe. You're right, he didn't NEED Howe, although I think any line mate of Gordie's would be more than happy he was out there with him.

I remember how the Rangers (and I am sure all opponents) hated Ted because he was so physical (they were constantly calling him a cheap shot artist). That line of Howe and Lindsay, centered Delvecchio was probably the most potent scoring machine I've seen.

Am I wrong in remembering that Alex D was NOT a very physical player? Sort of like Gretzky wasn't. Who was the most physical Center you've seen? I might go with Bobby Clarke.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 04, 2018, 09:01:02 PM
I saw him play in person once. In the 56-57 season against the NYR in the old MSG. He scored 30 goals that season (back when that was really an accomplishment). I should have phrased that better about Howe. You're right, he didn't NEED Howe, although I think any line mate of Gordie's would be more than happy he was out there with him.

I remember how the Rangers (and I am sure all opponents) hated Ted because he was so physical (they were constantly calling him a cheap shot artist). That line of Howe and Lindsay, centered Delvecchio was probably the most potent scoring machine I've seen.

Am I wrong in remembering that Alex D was NOT a very physical player? Sort of like Gretzky wasn't. Who was the most physical Center you've seen? I might go with Bobby Clarke.
Yes, Delvecchio wasn't very physical.  Neither was Sid Abel, before him.  But, both could dish the puck very well.  

Yes, Bobby Clarke was a very physical centre.  Phil Esposito was physical.  Easy for him with that huge body.  Stan Mikita, Eric Lindros, Peter Forsberg and Mark Messier were also very physical centers.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 04, 2018, 11:02:29 PM
Yes, Delvecchio wasn't very physical.  Neither was Sid Abel, before him.  But, both could dish the puck very well.  

Yes, Bobby Clarke was a very physical centre.  Phil Esposito was physical.  Easy for him with that huge body.  Stan Mikita, Eric Lindros, Peter Forsberg and Mark Messier were also very physical centers.

Jibes with my memory! IMO, Norm Ullman played an all-round tougher game in centering those wingers than Abel or Delvecchio, 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 06, 2018, 08:06:27 PM
When growing up, I'm thinking the boards around the ice surface had nothing on them -- no advertising at all. Is that right? If so, around when did that change to what we have today?

Also, no names on backs of jerseys, just the number. Was that true of all teams or did it vary?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 06, 2018, 08:44:59 PM
Joe-correct  boards no ads.Not sure  wen changed.   Or wen  #  appeared on jerseys.

Now  ALL  MLB  has  names  on back except NY,& Boston Home.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 06, 2018, 10:53:37 PM
When growing up, I'm thinking the boards around the ice surface had nothing on them -- no advertising at all. Is that right? If so, around when did that change to what we have today?

Also, no names on backs of jerseys, just the number. Was that true of all teams or did it vary?
The boards had no advertising until the late 1970s orb beginning of the 1980s.  Players on ALL NHL teams had only numbers and no names.  Do they have names now???  I don't remember EVER seeing names on NHL Jerseys.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 07, 2018, 12:07:58 PM
Well, here's a partial answer from a Leafs blog:

"Back in 1977, NHL Presdent John Ziegler mandated that all teams had to wear names on the rear of their road sweaters. It made broadcasters' jobs easier because they could more easily identify the visiting players, especially if there had been trades or demotions to minor-league clubs. The NHL allowed for some time for teams to get names on the rear of their uniforms, but Ballard held firm: no names will appear on the backs of the Maple Leafs.

It took a letter from the league threatening Ballard with fines in February 1978 for him to finally agree to have names appear on Leafs road uniforms. The only problem? Ballard added the names in the same colour blue as the uniform! Ballard's reasoning for this move was that he was going to lose a pile of money in program sales if people didn't need to buy them to identify the players!"

So, questions that remain are do all teams wear sweaters with names, home and road, today?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 07, 2018, 09:41:06 PM
"Back in 1977, NHL Presdent John Ziegler mandated that all teams had to wear names on the rear of their road sweaters.
It took a letter from the league threatening Ballard with fines in February 1978 for him to finally agree to have names appear on Leafs road uniforms.
So, questions that remain are do all teams wear sweaters with names, home and road, today?

Apparently, because I saw most of my live games before 1977, I still see, in my head, uniforms with no names.  While watching games on TV and streaming them on my computers, I see the bigger numbers much more clearly than the smaller names above.  Watching game highlights, teams seem to have names on both home and road uniforms.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 07, 2018, 10:07:45 PM
Robb, thanks. I switched on the Hockey Channel and saw the same thing.

This Harold Ballard was apparently a wild man. Once threatened to take a fireman's axe to the cables for TV lighting that he claimed was distracting his players. This, during a Hockey Night in Canada broadcast no less. Other similar incidents too. But ... didn't stop him from getting into the Hockey HoF.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 23, 2018, 07:28:13 PM
Germany 4, Canada 3 in the Olympic semi's ????


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on February 23, 2018, 08:35:53 PM
Long live Gary Bettman.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on February 24, 2018, 07:19:39 PM
Germany 4, Canada 3 in the Olympic semi's ????
Sad.  Germany's best players weren't good enough to make The NHL.  But they had practiced together a LOT more than the hastily-put-together Canadian and US teams.  So, they are capable of upsetting them.  I liked it better when The World's best players could participate in The Olympics.   :-[


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on February 24, 2018, 07:34:57 PM
Germany 4, Canada 3 in the Olympic semi's ????
Sad.  Germany's best players weren't good enough to make The NHL.  But they had practiced together a LOT more than the hastily-put-together Canadian and US teams.  So, they are capable of upsetting them.  I liked it better when The World's best players could participate in The Olympics.   :-[

I think we all preferred that Robb. Think the Caps #2 goalie Philip Grubauer is an ex-German national team player.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 28, 2018, 08:42:54 AM
Hockey history trivia questions (with a clue for most questions):

1. First NHL player to score 100 points in a season?
Clue: 1969

2. Why do Red Wings fans throw octopi onto the ice?
Clue: Original Six

3. Player with fastest slap shot on record?
Clue: 118 mph

4. Why are pucks frozen before game use?

5. Team with most future HoF players on it? The team, and the year.
Clue: Original Six

6. First million dollar contract in NHL history?
Clue: 1971

7. First goalie to score a goal in both regular season and playoff game?
Clue: 1987-88 and 1988-89

8. Defenseman with most total points in a season's playoff rounds?





Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 28, 2018, 04:02:07 PM
Hockey history trivia questions (with a clue for most questions):

1. First NHL player to score 100 points in a season?
Clue: 1969

2. Why do Red Wings fans throw octopi onto the ice?
Clue: Original Six

3. Player with fastest slap shot on record?
Clue: 118 mph

4. Why are pucks frozen before game use?

5. Team with most future HoF players on it? The team, and the year.
Clue: Original Six

6. First million dollar contract in NHL history?
Clue: 1971

7. First goalie to score a goal in both regular season and playoff game?
Clue: 1987-88 and 1988-89

8. Defenseman with most total points in a season's playoff rounds?

1. Phil Esposito, Bruins 1968-69.  Orr followed him, the next year with 120.

2. Because 2 Detroit fishmonger brothers did it first in 1952 playoffs, to signify the 8 games The Wings would need to win The Stanley Cup.  They swept Toronto, and then beat Montreal 4-2, ro win The Cup.  It became a tradition of the fans, after seeing it take a LONG time to have it removed and clean the ice.  ::)

3. I remember it being a Washington Cap player who was the best for many years.  His slapper was ALWAYS  over 103-104 (and those were his weak shots).  But, I can't remember a lot of things from post Expansion times.  I always wante The Blues' Al MacInnis to break the record.

4. Pucks used to be 100% rubber, and they bounced like crazy before they started freezing them.  It was to stop the bouncing, and make them slide better.

5. I don't know this for sure, but I'd guess that it was The 1959-60 Montreal Canadiens.

6. Another post Expansion question, I can't answer.  I know that Bobby Hull's WHA contract was the first pro hockey $1 Million contract.  But, as to who was the first NHL player to get that amount in a single year, I have no idea.  Was it Gretzky?

7. I remember that Ron Hextall was the first to aim for a goal and score in The NHL.  I'd guess that he was first to score in regular season AND the playoffs.

8.  I know someone passed Bobby Orr's best.  I would guess it was an Edmonton Oiler.  Was it Paul Coffey?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 28, 2018, 04:50:44 PM
Robb, Quiz covered up through at least 2013.

#3. Bobby Hull -- supposedly slap shot was clocked at 118 mph

#5. 1956 Canadiens, so you had right team, wrong year. 12 players.

#6. Misleading question in terms of wording. They were looking at first million dollar contract TOTAL (not for a season). Answer was Bobby Orr (5 yrs @ $200K per year). Signed in 1971.
Wonder if it was guaranteed money?? Wonder who got first $1M contract for one season. Didn't Sanderson sign a big contract back in early 70s?

Everything else, you were right on the money.

They don't name the 12 Canadien future HoFers on the '56 team. Here's my shot at it! Beliveau, Harvey, Geoffrion, Plante, Moore, H. Richard, M. Richard, Bouchard, Johnson, Olmstead. That's only 10. I guess they would count Toe Blake, the coach, for #11. #12 could be an owner or someone like that or, more likely, I'm just forgetting a player who made the HoF.

Only other interesting notes from that article were (1) Andy Bathgate says he invented the curved stick before Mikita; (2) last goalie to play in a game without a mask was Pittsburgh goalie Andy  Brown (1974); and there was a goalie in 1930 who played at least one game with a leather mask. Ouch!

BTW, how DO they clean octopi from the ice surface. Scrape them off? Then put down a new layer of ice over what's left?







Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 28, 2018, 07:33:40 PM
#3. Bobby Hull -- supposedly slap shot was clocked at 118 mph. #5. 1956 Canadiens. #6. Bobby Orr (5 yrs @ $200K per year). Signed in 1971.  Wonder who got first $1M contract for one season. Didn't Sanderson sign a big contract back in early 70s?

Andy Bathgate says he invented the curved stick before Mikita; (2) last goalie to play in a game without a mask was Pittsburgh goalie Andy  Brown (1974); and there was a goalie in 1930 who played at least one game with a leather mask. Ouch!

BTW, how DO they clean octopi from the ice surface. Scrape them off? Then put down a new layer of ice over what's left?

Funny, if ANYBODY should have known that Bobby Hull had the hardest shot it was I.  I visited Chicago in all the winters before 1963, and watched ALL Hawks' games during his prime '63-'72.  I missed that because I thought more recent players, playing with the later composite sticks that were more flexible, and could whip the puck, would have made the puck move at greater speeds.  I'd be shocked to find out that no recent player made them move at higher velocity than Hull.

I don't remember Bathgate using a curved stick before Mikita.  But, if he really did, I glad.  Being a fellow Winnipegger, he was one of my heroes growing up.  

They had to scrape the octopi and its oily residue off the ice.  Then scrape it further, to get down to clean ice.  Then the pushed new ice over it and smoothed it out with a scraper.  It took a few minutes.  That's why the fans liked it, because they actually affected the game that way.

As to the 1955-56 Canadiens, only 10 HOFers were players (the 10 you listed) - Kenny Mosdell, Dolly St. Laurent, Donnie Marshall and Claude Provost were the only others even remotely possible, and none of them are in The HOF.  I'm guessing that Coach, Toe Blake, and team President, Frank Selke are the other two (though that's a bit of cheating on the question asker's part.

I'm so old that I played exclusively through Juniors with one piece solid wood sticks with straight blades, wearing no helmet.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 28, 2018, 08:07:21 PM
Robb,

You're right. Think many of those questions needed a disclaimer or two. As for the Canadiens, I think you are right that Selke must be the 12th. Blake made the HoF as a Player too, didn't he? But well before 1956. Also, I wasn't sure about Henri Richard (that he played as early as 1955-56).

I played high school hockey in New York (1958-59). As you say, no helmets. Can't recall what brand of hockey skates I had. I do remember I had a Northland stick. Do they even make those anymore?



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 28, 2018, 08:27:34 PM
Robb,

You're right. Think many of those questions needed a disclaimer or two. As for the Canadiens, I think you are right that Selke must be the 12th. Blake made the HoF as a Player too, didn't he? But well before 1956. Also, I wasn't sure about Henri Richard (that he played as early as 1955-56).

I played high school hockey in New York (1958-59). As you say, no helmets. Can't recall what brand of hockey skates I had. I do remember I had a Northland stick. Do they even make those anymore?
Yes, they still make Northlands.  That's a US firm in Minnesota.  I used mostly Sher-wood and Victoriaville sticks, but had a couple Northlands as well.  And even tried a CCM in later, recreational games, as an adult.  I didn't like the composite sticks, because they break if you just sneeze on them.  Also, I don't like playing with a curved stick because its harder to control the puck on the backhand, and shoot backhanders.  That's after thousands of days playing with a straight blade.  We had our backyard rink (over 2 backyards (ours and my father's brother's house, next door).  We had a very big rink for a private one, with real metal pipe goals, and we had a push ice scraper.  So, o ur ice was pretty even.  We laid it down each October, and usually played through most of April (sometimes to its end (back in pre Global Warming times).  We usually had 5.5 months of night freezes.  My uncle was a peewee coach.   So, I played from age 5 through first year of Juniors (15).  So that was 11 years of about half the year's worth of days of league and school games, practises, or pick-up games on our home rink.  That's about 1900 days of playing with straight wood sticks, plus maybe another 150 as an adult in pick up games, vs. maybe 35-40 recreational games with a slightly curved composite.  Old habits die hard.  

It seems that no one else here is very interested in hockey, anymore.  Or else they are busy with more important things.  Let's hope they're busy with pleasant things, like new lovelives, round The World trips, and the like, and not pressure from work or litigation, or being audited.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on March 29, 2018, 12:56:57 AM
I was and remain the proud owner of a gen-u-ine Dave Balon Montreal Canadians hockey stick obtained directly from Balon at MSG circa 1967-8. Not having access to ice, not to mention barely being able to stand up on ice skates, the stick was used as my stick of choice (also my only stick) in our "field hockey" endeavors played on CONCRETE.  >:( Needless to say, the stick is in something less than pristine condition, especially the taped together shards of wood that constitute the blade. 

I also had a Tony Hrkac autographed picture that he signed for me at a Milwaukee Admirals (IHL) game in '96. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find it.

Maybe I should look for a Lou Angotti model?   


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 29, 2018, 02:56:56 AM
I was and remain the proud owner of a gen-u-ine Dave Balon Montreal Canadians hockey stick obtained directly from Balon at MSG circa 1967-8. Not having access to ice, not to mention barely being able to stand up on ice skates, the stick was used as my stick of choice (also my only stick) in our "field hockey" endeavors played on CONCRETE.  >:( Needless to say, the stick is in something less than pristine condition, especially the taped together shards of wood that constitute the blade. 

I also had a Tony Hrkac autographed picture that he signed for me at a Milwaukee Admirals (IHL) game in '96. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find it.

Maybe I should look for a Lou Angotti model?   
Who made the Dave Bacon stick?  Lou Angotti was once traded by St. Louis to Pittsburgh for my ex-neighbour, Ab McDonald.  Pittsburgh had gotten Ab from The Blackhawks in the Expansion Draft, in 1967.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 29, 2018, 08:14:38 AM
Robb, Your personal outdoor rink sounds fabulous.

20 miles up the Hudson River from NYC, we didn't have great ice. Although, in the coldest winters, people actually drove their cars across the Hudson (at its widest point, the "Tappan Zee") where the current bridges are built.

We played as kids on a very large pond where, at the deepest end, you could see open water (with no boards, we lost many pucks to a watery grave). Who was gonna skate hard after them toward thin, or no, ice? We used two logs we pulled out of nearby woods for "goals.'  Hit the log, you scored -- so had to keep puck on the ice. No slap shots.

We were young teens. A group of four French-Canadian men often joined us (two on each of our "sides") and they took no prisoners. Though probably 10 years older than us, we got the same checks as they gave themselves and, our poor young "goalies," well, their knees were shaking so bad ... The good thing was these guys brought actual nets. What I remember most was how fast they could skate. Like we were rooted in cement.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 29, 2018, 11:00:16 AM
20 miles up the Hudson River from NYC, we didn't have great ice. Although, in the coldest winters, people actually drove their cars across the Hudson (at its widest point, the "Tappan Zee") where the current bridges are built.
We played as kids on a very large pond where, at the deepest end, you could see open water (with no boards, we lost many pucks to a watery grave). Who was gonna skate hard after them toward thin, or no, ice? We used two logs we pulled out of nearby woods for "goals.'  Hit the log, you scored -- so had to keep puck on the ice. No slap shots.
We were young teens. A group of four French-Canadian men often joined us (two on each of our "sides") and they took no prisoners. Though probably 10 years older than us, we got the same checks as they gave themselves and, our poor young "goalies," well, their knees were shaking so bad ... The good thing was these guys brought actual nets. What I remember most was how fast they could skate. Like we were rooted in cement.
Wow! playing against adults 1o years older, who played like they were in an organized adult league.  That is what I call gutsy, and dedicated to playing hockey.  Did they give you any pointers on how to improve your game (like shooting, passing, using leverage on your checks, etc.  and show you set offensive plays?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on March 29, 2018, 11:14:39 AM
I was and remain the proud owner of a gen-u-ine Dave Balon Montreal Canadians hockey stick obtained directly from Balon at MSG circa 1967-8. Not having access to ice, not to mention barely being able to stand up on ice skates, the stick was used as my stick of choice (also my only stick) in our "field hockey" endeavors played on CONCRETE.  >:( Needless to say, the stick is in something less than pristine condition, especially the taped together shards of wood that constitute the blade. 

I also had a Tony Hrkac autographed picture that he signed for me at a Milwaukee Admirals (IHL) game in '96. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find it.

Maybe I should look for a Lou Angotti model?   
Who made the Dave Bacon stick?  Lou Angotti was once traded by St. Louis to Pittsburgh for my ex-neighbour, Ab McDonald.  Pittsburgh had gotten Ab from The Blackhawks in the Expansion Draft, in 1967.

Who made it? Hm... Well, it says "Pattern Made". There is also a marking "McNeise's - Montreal, Canada.  Does that mean anything to you? Balon's uniform number - 20 - is also stamped on it.

I remember Ab McDonald. Looking up Hrkac, it appears he was one of those guys who couldn't get enough. Retired after '04-'05, back with the (now AHL) Milwaukee Admirals at age 39. Then, came back and played a few games in '08-'09 and '09-'10 for the AHL Houston Aeros, finishing up at age 43+. Don't think that was for the big bucks  ;D. Gotta  love that.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 29, 2018, 11:56:49 AM
20 miles up the Hudson River from NYC, we didn't have great ice. Although, in the coldest winters, people actually drove their cars across the Hudson (at its widest point, the "Tappan Zee") where the current bridges are built.
We played as kids on a very large pond where, at the deepest end, you could see open water (with no boards, we lost many pucks to a watery grave). Who was gonna skate hard after them toward thin, or no, ice? We used two logs we pulled out of nearby woods for "goals.'  Hit the log, you scored -- so had to keep puck on the ice. No slap shots.
We were young teens. A group of four French-Canadian men often joined us (two on each of our "sides") and they took no prisoners. Though probably 10 years older than us, we got the same checks as they gave themselves and, our poor young "goalies," well, their knees were shaking so bad ... The good thing was these guys brought actual nets. What I remember most was how fast they could skate. Like we were rooted in cement.
Wow! playing against adults 1o years older, who played like they were in an organized adult league.  That is what I call gutsy, and dedicated to playing hockey.  Did they give you any pointers on how to improve your game (like shooting, passing, using leverage on your checks, etc.  and show you set offensive plays?

I wish I could say they did (coach us) but we were just fodder to fill out a reasonable "game" for them. I think the gap was WAY too large for them to take the time to try to bring our skills, such as they were, up to snuff. I will say they were kind enough NOT to take verbal or physical punitive measures when we missed an easy pass or failed to hit them in stride. They just looked sort of disgusted, like how could we be that bad at 14 or whatever age we were.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 29, 2018, 12:06:17 PM
I was and remain the proud owner of a gen-u-ine Dave Balon Montreal Canadians hockey stick obtained directly from Balon at MSG circa 1967-8. Not having access to ice, not to mention barely being able to stand up on ice skates, the stick was used as my stick of choice (also my only stick) in our "field hockey" endeavors played on CONCRETE.  >:( Needless to say, the stick is in something less than pristine condition, especially the taped together shards of wood that constitute the blade. 
Who made it? it says "Pattern Made". There is also a marking "McNeise's - Montreal, Canada.  Does that mean anything to you?

Yes Ozias McNiese was the inventor of major improvements to hockey sticks during the 1910s.  He started a sporting goods store in Montreal, and manufactured hockey sticks.  His company was still making sticks till the beginning of the 1960s.  I don't remember seeing them after that.

I remember Tony Hrcac well.  He was a super fast skater.  He was a US collage star.  I think he won The Hobey Baker award, as the most valuable (top) player in USA colleges his senior year.  The St. Louis Blues drafted him, and ballyhooed him as much as Orr got.  But, he flopped.  He didn't play any defence, and didn't score enough to make up for that big deficiency in his game.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 29, 2018, 12:11:37 PM
Robb, you answered a ton of questions from me about Canada and hockey some time ago. Had another one.

In the US, with football, the general wisdom is that if you want speedy running backs, wide receivers or defensive backs, go first to Florida (or Texas or Southern California) to recruit. If you want beefy lineman, the Midwest is where to look first. These are generalizations and stereotypes but ... more than a hint of truth in them, for whatever reasons!

Was wondering if the same holds true for hockey players in Canada. For example, is speed and stick handling ability thought to be more prevalent among Quebec Juniors? Other skills or physical attributes believed to be more likely to be found on the Prairies? You get my drift.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 29, 2018, 12:17:58 PM
Wow! playing against adults 1o years older, who played like they were in an organized adult league.  That is what I call gutsy, and dedicated to playing hockey.  Did they give you any pointers on how to improve your game (like shooting, passing, using leverage on your checks, etc.  and show you set offensive plays?
I wish I could say they did (coach us) but we were just fodder to fill out a reasonable "game" for them. I think the gap was WAY too large for them to take the time to try to bring our skills, such as they were, up to snuff. I will say they were kind enough NOT to take verbal or physical punitive measures when we missed an easy pass or failed to hit them in stride. They just looked sort of disgusted, like how could we be that bad at 14 or whatever age we were.
[/quote]
Too bad.  They weren't very nice people.  It would have made their own experience playing with you more enjoyable, if you played better.  I've rarely experienced that kind of behaviour.  MOST older and better players in pick up games gave us younger, still learning players tips on how to improve our games - especially if they played on our team.  Too bad for you boys.  They could have made your experience much more enjoyable, at no cost to them (rather would have made their experience better, as well).  Some people are just not very friendly.  If they really hated Anglophones so much, why would they play with you, and be fair about splitting themselves to make fair teams???  It makes no sense.  Most of the franchise I've met and played with and against were very nice.  Hockey brings people together, rather than keeps them apart.  Of course, I got along well with them because I had taken French in school.  They appreciated that, as MOST Winnipeggers took Russian or German as their foreign language (because they were of Ukrainian or German heritage.  But, I felt it was important to be able to communicate with ALL my countrymen, not just 2/3 of them.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 29, 2018, 01:02:11 PM
I don't know that we felt much, if any, offense from these guys. I'm sure it started with maybe four of us younger American guys and their four, both with hockey sticks and skates. Skating on different parts of this pond near Pearl River, NY. Not enough guys in either group to really "play," but ... combined, you could have a little game. And, I guess they were happy enough with us --- despite the age and skill gap - to bring their nets the next Saturday, which really "upped" the quality of the game. So much so that, on subsequent weekends, other skaters tried to join the proceedings. I'm sure actual hockey nets on an American pond in the NYC suburbs was a heretofore unseen sight!

Given the year, I'm sure these Canadians were iron workers, working on the Tappan Zee Bridge, which was being built and painted. I'd make a fair guess, too, that although I heard them speak French among themselves, they were off an Indian Reservation up on the St. Lawrence. Why they weren't more "friendly," who knows? Maybe they didn't speak much English? Or, more likely, they were just out for some weekend exercise over the 4-6 weeks we had some ice to play hockey on. I'm sure they didn't see any other role for themselves.

Any First Nation (is that the correct name) people make names for themselves in the NHL?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 29, 2018, 01:05:29 PM
In US football, if you want speedy RBs, WRs or DBs, go to Florida, Texas or South. Calif.)-beefy lineman, Midwest. Is that true of hockey players in Canada? Is speed and stick handling ability more prevalent among Quebec Juniors? Other skills or physical attributes more likely to be found on the Prairies?
There ARE regional differences in hockey skills in Canada. Northern, rural Quebec has longer, colder winters than most of the organized hockey feeder areas of the country (where most of the population lives in The South, within 150 miles of The US border. Also, most kids in rural North Quebec grew up on farms, fairly far from one another.  So, when the kids played Bandy, they rarely had enough players to man all positions (6 skaters and one goaltender from 1800s all the way to the 1920s). They usually didn't have goalies-put almost all emphasis on offence, as playing defence was difficult, often useless. So offensive skills were emphasized, and high scoring was the norm. So, most highly-skilled, best offensive forwards usually came from N. Quebec (Quebec City, Trois Rivieres, Chicoutimi). Later, when organized Junior, Senior and pro leagues took over, goaltending became super important, as goaltenders were generally left hung out to dry, because of the tradition of not emphasizing defence.  That gave the goalies terrific practise at needing to make ridiculous acrobatic reflex saves, due to getting no help. Goaltending flowered for basic survival. Even today, the best goalies from North America come from Northern Quebec, as the best in Europe come from Finland (because Finns emphasize defence less than The Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Swiss & free-skating Swedes. Big, strong defencemen are a staple in The WHL (Western Provinces), especially The Prairie Provinces, because most of the defencemen were raised on farms, and are strong from carrying hay bales and potato sacks (like Gordie Howe-a forward, but built like a D-man). Northern Ontario (farming and mining country also produced big and strong players -so many of the best defencemen came from there. Quebec, in general had players well trained in offensive skills, because of the game's start in The North, and many farmer families moved south to bigger towns and cities. Warm B.C. never developed many quality NHL players. The Maritimes never had high-quality leagues or hockey traditions, followed Quebec, but lower quality.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 29, 2018, 01:33:39 PM
Any First Nation (is that the correct name) people make names for themselves in the NHL?
Yes, "First Nation" is the Canadian equivalent to "Native American" for USA indigenous peoples.  There have been a fair amount of First Nation NHLers.

Walter Tkazcuk (Ojibway), Jonathan Cheechoo (Cree), George Armstrong (Ojibway), Reggie Leach (Ojibway). Jim Nielson, Ted Nolan (Ojibway), Fred Sasakamoose (Cree), Jordan Tootoo (Inuit), Gino Odjick (Algonquin), Denis Lambert (Ojibway), Mike Peluso (Metis), Henry Boucha (Cree), Ted Hodgeson (Cree), Bobby Simpson (Mohawk), Sandy MCarthy (Mi'kmaq), Harry York (Cree), Chris Simon (Ojibway), Wayne King (Ojibway), Chad Denny (Mi'kmaq), Carey Price (Ulkatcho), Everett Sanipass (Mi'kmaq), Blair Atcheynum (Cree)

T.J. Oshie (Ojibway) (USA - Minnesota)

These are most of the full-blooded Native North Americans.  Lots more were partial, including Grant Fuhr, Shane Corson, Theo Fleury, Stu Grimson, Gerald Diduk, Bryan Trottier,


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 29, 2018, 04:36:37 PM
Robb, TY for both replies.

Saw an article naming "The Best Hockey Town In All Of Canada." Based on NHL players born/raised there, on a per capita population basis.

Winner is Fort William/Thunder Bay. "This place is special. Firstly, it has simply produced an astounding number of NHL players for a city whose population has remained at about 100,000 residents since the 60s. The region of Thunder Bay has regularly churned out at least one NHL player (often more) for every 15,000 residents, a remarkable feat. Today’s NHL features Thunder Bay family connections like the four Staal brothers, two Pyatt brothers and the Chorneys (current NHLer Taylor and father Marc); oldtimers like all-time great Alex Delvecchio and all-stars Gus Bodnar and Charlie Simmer, are just a few of Thunder Bay’s native sons that went on to don NHL sweaters."

Finishing second was Sudbury. "Secondly, the town most famous for its mines (though it should be for its hockey players). Forget about the huge number of players that this town has consistently churned out, certainly rivaling our champion Thunder Bay in this regard. There’s something in the water there (heavy metal, maybe?) that gives its native sons a certain unique quality. Whether it’s Eddie Shack (the “Nose”), Mike Foligno (the “Leap”), Ron Duguay (the “Hair”), or Todd Bertuzzi (let’s not go there), these guys have personality. Al Arbour wore glasses on the ice, for goodness sake. And we can’t talk about Sudbury without mentioning the heartache that the cities of Toronto and Vancouver have suffered under the helm of Sudbury-born Randy Carlyle and Mike Gillis. The NHL would not be the NHL without the Nickel City."

Also saw a 2016 article that said prospects born/raised in Quebec have alarmingly dwindled in the last several decades. Didn't really give a reason. Think they mentioned that only three players from Quebec were on the 2016 Canadian World Cup team --- Bergeron, Vlasic and Corey Crawford. Last Quebecer taken #1 in the draft was LeCavalier, back in 1998. Only 14 players from the QMJHL were taken in the draft in 2016.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on March 29, 2018, 05:30:18 PM
Just to see Barclay  center I went to  Hawks-Islanders game last  Sat nite.   Had seat rite behind Hawk bench.   It is a hoop arena-NY moving to new arena in Elmont soon.

Those guys are "HUGE". Islanders have a guy who must be 6-8.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 29, 2018, 06:02:48 PM
"The Best Hockey Town In All Of Canada." Based on NHL players born/raised there, on a per capita population basis.
Thunder Bay- produced an astounding number of NHL players for a city with about 100,000 residents since the 60s. The region of Thunder Bay has regularly churned out at least one NHL player for every 15,000 residents. Todays NHL features The Staal brothers, Pyatt brothers and the Chorneys; oldtimers like Alex Delvecchio, Gus Bodnar and Charlie Simmer.
Second was Sudbury "Secondly, the town most famous for its mines (though it should be for its hockey players). Eddie Shack, Mike Foligno, Ron Duguay, & Todd Bertuzzi, Al Arbour, Randy Carlyle & Mike Gillis.

As Al Arbour always said:  "There's nothing for a kid to do in Sudbury but play hockey!"  Kirkland Lake. North Bay and Timmins in Northern Ontario were other hockey hotbeds.  Mining towns were as good for young hockey players as the farms.  Thetford Mines in Quebec was a good one.  When I was young, Thunder Bay was just a bay.  The city was formed by two smaller cities joining together.  They were Fort William and Port Arthur.  But, yes, lots of hockey players came from both towns.  In Manitoba, farming towns like Brandon and Flin Flon churned out a lot of great players.  In Saskatchewan, Moosejaw, North Battleford, Estevan, Prince Albert, Swift Current, Humboldt, and Weyburn were where the players came from.  In Alberta, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, and Red Deer; and in Ontario, other than the aforementioned towns, they also came from Kenora, Sault Sainte Marie, Oshawa, Parry Sound, Kingston, Sarnia, Barrie, Peterborough, Owen Sound, St. Catherines, and Belleville, near The Great Lakes.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on March 30, 2018, 03:15:25 PM
Any First Nation (is that the correct name) people make names for themselves in the NHL?
Yes, "First Nation" is the Canadian equivalent to "Native American" for USA indigenous peoples.  There have been a fair amount of First Nation NHLers.

Walter Tkazcuk (Ojibway), Jonathan Cheechoo (Cree), George Armstrong (Ojibway), Reggie Leach (Ojibway). Jim Nielson, Ted Nolan (Ojibway), Fred Sasakamoose (Cree), Jordan Tootoo (Inuit), Gino Odjick (Algonquin), Denis Lambert (Ojibway), Mike Peluso (Metis), Henry Boucha (Cree), Ted Hodgeson (Cree), Bobby Simpson (Mohawk), Sandy MCarthy (Mi'kmaq), Harry York (Cree), Chris Simon (Ojibway), Wayne King (Ojibway), Chad Denny (Mi'kmaq), Carey Price (Ulkatcho), Everett Sanipass (Mi'kmaq), Blair Atcheynum (Cree)

T.J. Oshie (Ojibway) (USA - Minnesota)

These are most of the full-blooded Native North Americans.  Lots more were partial, including Grant Fuhr, Shane Corson, Theo Fleury, Stu Grimson, Gerald Diduk, Bryan Trottier,

Robb, fascinating. I had no idea that these guys, including a guy I loved, Tkazcuk, he of the Ukrainian surname, were "First Nation" people, let alone "full-blooded".

The thing about Hrkac that was most memorable to me was his incredibly blonde hair. In looking up his stats, it's easy to see that he was reasonably accomplished offensively, so that his up and down career could quite logically be explained by defensive deficiencies. Apparently he served a coach of one Concordia University in Wisconsin, compiling the unenviable record of  10-109-10! Ouch! :P 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 30, 2018, 03:53:44 PM
The Maritimes never had high-quality leagues or hockey traditions, followed Quebec, but lower quality.

Seems like Nova Scotia may not have had quantity, but of all the smaller provinces, really had some high quality players. Sidney Crosby, Lowell and Parker McDonald, Al McNeil, Al McInnis, Mike McPhee, Glenn Murray, Bobby Smith. You'd be right, though, in noting not many from the older era we focus on.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 30, 2018, 04:52:13 PM
Yes, "First Nation" is the Canadian equivalent to "Native American" for USA indigenous peoples.  There have been a fair amount of First Nation NHLers.
Walter Tkazcuk (Ojibway), Jonathan Cheechoo (Cree), George Armstrong (Ojibway), Reggie Leach (Ojibway). Jim Nielson, Ted Nolan (Ojibway), Fred Sasakamoose (Cree), Jordan Tootoo (Inuit), Gino Odjick (Algonquin), Denis Lambert (Ojibway), Mike Peluso (Metis), Henry Boucha (Cree), Ted Hodgeson (Cree), Bobby Simpson (Mohawk), Sandy MCarthy (Mi'kmaq), Harry York (Cree), Chris Simon (Ojibway), Wayne King (Ojibway), Chad Denny (Mi'kmaq), Carey Price (Ulkatcho), Everett Sanipass (Mi'kmaq), Blair Atcheynum (Cree)
T.J. Oshie (Ojibway) (USA - Minnesota)
Robb, fascinating. I had no idea that these guys, including a guy I loved, Tkazcuk, he of the Ukrainian surname, were "First Nation" people, let alone "full-blooded".

Looking again at a photo of Walt, I can see that my memories were exaggerated.  I think he must have been, at most, only half, but, probably is closer to one quarter Native Canadian. I remember people calling him "Chief".  So, I must have gotten him confused with George Armstrong or Jim Nielson, who WERE full-blooded, and were also called "Chief".  They used to call every player who had ANY Indian blood, "Chief", as a joke.  I forgot a couple: Canadien/Blue Jimmy Roberts, and Blue Jamie Rivers were 3/4 or more.  T.J. Oshie's father is a full-blood Ojibway, his mother was half Caucasian.  Yet, T.J. looks 100% Caucasian. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 31, 2018, 11:41:51 AM
The Maritimes never had high-quality leagues or hockey traditions, followed Quebec, but lower quality.
Seems like Nova Scotia may not have had quantity, but of all the smaller provinces, really had some high quality players. Sidney Crosby, Lowell and Parker McDonald, Al McNeil, Al McInnis, Mike McPhee, Glenn Murray, Bobby Smith. You'd be right, though, in noting not many from the older era we focus on.

The calibre of Junior A hockey opportunities has increased tremendously for Nova Scotia and New Brunswick since the start of the 1980s, when they got a couple teams each in The Quebec Major Junior Hockey League.  That has opened up a higher level of training for many of hose provinces' best midget and AAA players.  Before that, a handful of individual high-achieving players had to find guest homes in Quebec, and play for QMJHL teams there. That situation still exists for Canadian boys who live far away from cities with teams in the higher level Midget and Junior leagues.  That's what I would have done when my parents moved to USA.  I would have had to stay with my uncle and aunt in West Kildonan, Manitoba, if I had wanted to play for The Winnipeg Rangers (the team that owned my rights).  There was no decently high level Junior league in The Chicago Metro Area in 1963.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on March 31, 2018, 01:55:31 PM
The Maritimes never had high-quality leagues or hockey traditions, followed Quebec, but lower quality.
Seems like Nova Scotia may not have had quantity, but of all the smaller provinces, really had some high quality players. Sidney Crosby, Lowell and Parker McDonald, Al McNeil, Al McInnis, Mike McPhee, Glenn Murray, Bobby Smith. You'd be right, though, in noting not many from the older era we focus on.

The calibre of Junior A hockey opportunities has increased tremendously for Nova Scotia and New Brunswick since the start of the 1980s, when they got a couple teams each in The Quebec Major Junior Hockey League.  That has opened up a higher level of training for many of hose provinces' best midget and AAA players.  Before that, a handful of individual high-achieving players had to find guest homes in Quebec, and play for QMJHL teams there. That situation still exists for Canadian boys who live far away from cities with teams in the higher level Midget and Junior leagues.  That's what I would have done when my parents moved to USA.  I would have had to stay with my uncle and aunt in West Kildonan, Manitoba, if I had wanted to play for The Winnipeg Rangers (the team that owned my rights).  There was no decently high level Junior league in The Chicago Metro Area in 1963.

And one Gerard Gallant hailed from "lonely" PEI, population 12 ::), that I had the pleasure of vacationing in 1 1/2 years back (great place for a vacation). Of course, Gallant is currently enjoying unexpected success with Vegas in the NHL.   


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on March 31, 2018, 03:21:18 PM
Mike, I envy your vacation there. Forbes Kennedy was raised there too.

Only place I've ever been on the Canadian Atlantic Coast was Gander, Newfoundland. Back in 1954, before commercial jet aircraft, to fly from Germany to New York, you had to make two stops for refueling and food. The propeller aircraft stopped first in Shannon, Ireland then made the transatlantic crossing to Gander, where you ate dinner at the airport cafeteria while the plane was taking on the fuel needed to get to NYC.

That was at least a 12 hour trip, in a very hot plane. People were throwing up on all legs of the trip, especially on landings. I was spared from that, though a little nauseous. All they had to eat in Newfoundland was Cod, and I hate it to this day. Highlight, from my window seat, was seeing icebergs in the North Atlantic in June. The propeller drone was also loud as hell. Why I rarely complain about lengthy air travel these days.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 31, 2018, 03:27:46 PM
Mike, I envy your vacation there. Forbes Kennedy was raised there too.
Only place I've ever been on the Canadian Atlantic Coast was Gander, Newfoundland. Back in 1954, before commercial jet aircraft, to fly from Germany to New York, you had to make two stops for refueling and food. The propeller aircraft stopped first in Shannon, Ireland then made the transatlantic crossing to Gander, where you ate dinner at the airport cafeteria while the plane was taking on the fuel needed to get to NYC.
That was at least a 12 hour trip, in a very hot plane. People were throwing up on all legs of the trip, especially on landings. I was spared from that, though a little nauseous. All they had to eat in Newfoundland was Cod, and I hate it to this day. Highlight, from my window seat, was seeing icebergs in the North Atlantic in June. The propeller drone was also loud as hell. Why I rarely complain about lengthy air travel these days.
I've stopped at Gander many times.  I pass over Newfoundland, a bit of Labrador, southern Greenland and Iceland (and assorted icebergs) 2 to 4 times each year.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on March 31, 2018, 03:37:04 PM
The best NHL players from P.E.I. have been:
Brad Richards, Rick Vaive, Errol Thompson, Bob MacMillan and Billy MacMillan, Al MacAdam, Gerard Gallant, Forbes Kennedy, Kevin Devine, Bobby Whitlock, Dave Cameron and goalie, Gary Simmons.  None have been big stars.  All have been fairly recent, other than Forbes Kennedy.  The Maritime leagues were notary high quality competition, nor coaching quality.  Individuals had to migrate to Quebec to get high-level training.  Charlottetown had a team in The QMJHL for awhile.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on April 01, 2018, 12:38:59 AM
Robb,

Meant to thank you for the info on McNiese - quite interesting. I had no idea what that stamping meant and found very little info on Google. However, I did see an  EBay ad for a mid-60's era stick from one of the prominent Canadians - maybe Beliveau - for which the seller noted a McNiese stamping - something like "McNiese - West Montreal, Canada" as I recall.

Loved seeing your list of PEI native hockey player names, many of which I recognize and had not heard or thought about in years. Rick Vaive was a high goal scorer - 40-50+ per year in his prime, a pretty decent sized star for a while.  Gary Simmons, a goalie, and anything but a star at the NHL level, played for the short-lived California Golden Seals, who then became the Cleveland Barons for an even shorter time, before joining the ranks of the defunct. At a NY Rangers game vs. the aforementioned Barons, I came the closest I ever came to losing my head as a result of a wayward puck (best seats I ever had for a hockey game).  ;D  Ducked just in time.   

Joe,

We wanted to get to Newfoundland, but fell short, spending most of our limited time and budget in PEI with a day trip down to Nova Scotia. I have seen icebergs from the air a few times flying the polar route. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 01, 2018, 01:48:36 AM
Robb--i heard  that you can recite  every  leader  in points, rebounds, and  assists   in the NBA  from 1950 to  2017.  For good measure you can give the ethnicity and birthplace of every  leader. Is that true? ;D ;D ;D ;D



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 01, 2018, 06:50:57 PM
Forbes Kennedy. 5'8, 150. Pound for pound, was anyone tougher? Four fights and a punched linesman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-s6uT16S8A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-s6uT16S8A)


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 01, 2018, 06:51:56 PM
Robb--i heard  that you can recite  every  leader  in points, rebounds, and  assists   in the NBA  from 1950 to  2017.  For good measure you can give the ethnicity and birthplace of every  leader. Is that true? ;D ;D ;D ;D
I admit that I AM a "Rain Man" type, complete with photographic memory, when it comes to sports statistics (Hockey(1890s-1972), Baseball(1890s-1966) and record information (1940s-1970), based on having the mild form of Asbergers' Syndrome (autism) - serious "collectors' syndrome".  But, I know very little about pro basketball, and nothing about US college basketball, just as I know virtually nothing about US college football, boxing, soccer, etc., having been raised in Canada, and not following those sports after moving to USA.  I did follow The NFL some after moving to Chicago, as I was a Winnipeg Blue Bomber fan of The CFL, and our greatest coach, Minnesotan, Bud Grant, coached The Vikings starting fairly early.  We got to see US TV, being so close to the border, so I was a Vikings fan (our closest NFL team) from 1961, when they started.  
I knew about Oscar Robertson, Bob Cousey, Bill Russell, George Mikan, Elgin Baylor, as great players.  But very little else.  I don't know ANY NBA records.  But, I used to know virtually ALL the stats for hockey, and just about all baseball stats that were on the baseball cards from 1948-1965.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 01, 2018, 06:55:23 PM
Forbes Kennedy. 5'8, 150. Pound for pound, was anyone tougher? Four fights and a punched linesman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-s6uT16S8A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-s6uT16S8A)
I don't think there was anyone tougher pound for pound.  Maybe Ted Lindsey.  There were a LOT of really small fireballs in The Old NHL.  Reg Fleming was also very small and light.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 01, 2018, 07:35:20 PM
Forbes Kennedy. 5'8, 150. Pound for pound, was anyone tougher? Four fights and a punched linesman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-s6uT16S8A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-s6uT16S8A)
I don't think there was anyone tougher pound for pound.  Maybe Ted Lindsey.  There were a LOT of really small fireballs in The Old NHL.  Reg Fleming was also very small and light.

Yeah, I always forget how small Terrible Ted was. He played so big! Also, in that YT clip of Forbes Kennedy's last NHL shift, the only one who got the better of Forbes was Pieface McKenzie. Another little scrapper. Kennedy was banned after that brawl, no? I mean, 38 minutes in penalties assessed plus punching the linesman?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 01, 2018, 07:49:24 PM
Just to see Barclay  center I went to  Hawks-Islanders game last  Sat nite.   Had seat rite behind Hawk bench.   It is a hoop arena-NY moving to new arena in Elmont soon.

Those guys are "HUGE". Islanders have a guy who must be 6-8.

What did you think of the place, Doc? Never been there. All I know it's built on the site where O'Malley wanted to relocate the Dodgers to from Ebbets Field. Or, at least that's what he said. Robt Moses nixed the plan and offered Flushing Meadows instead. Bye bye Dodgers.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 01, 2018, 07:50:58 PM
Forbes Kennedy. 5'8, 150. Pound for pound, was anyone tougher? Four fights and a punched linesman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-s6uT16S8A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-s6uT16S8A)
I don't think there was anyone tougher pound for pound.  Maybe Ted Lindsey.  There were a LOT of really small fireballs in The Old NHL.  Reg Fleming was also very small and light.

Yeah, I always forget how small Terrible Ted was. He played so big! Also, in that YT clip of Forbes Kennedy's last NHL shift, the only one who got the better of Forbes was Pieface McKenzie. Another little scrapper. Kennedy was banned after that brawl, no? I mean, 38 minutes in penalties assessed plus punching the linesman?

Kennedy had several multiple game suspensions during his career.  They used to call Johnny M., "Pie".  He had a "pie face", but nobody called him that.  In the '40s and '50s, 180 was a "big" player.  There were lots of 150-165 lb players.  6' was "tall".  There were lots of fireplug defencemen at 5-7 or 5-8 and 170 to 175 lb.  They were rotund, but surprisingly mobile (at least in those days terms).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 01, 2018, 08:01:09 PM
I remember at MSG, Ranger fans referred to him as "Pie Face." At least at one point in time. Maybe they called him that to get under his skin. He was one of the more hated Rangers' opponents, for some reason.

When we were mentioning Dolly St. Laurent in the Viet Nam thread, I was wondering about two things: (1) were pretty much all Montreal Canadiens players household names throughout Canada in their 1950s glory years (sort of in the way Yankees players were so well known in the USA, even those not named Mantle or Berra or Ford); and, (2) what were the ground rules in Original Six days for "Hockey Night In Canada." For example, did the Saturday night feature game have to include either the Leafs or Habs, or could it involve two US teams?



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 01, 2018, 08:58:32 PM
I was wondering about two things: (1) were pretty much all Montreal Canadiens players household names throughout Canada in their 1950s glory years (sort of in the way Yankees players were so well known in the USA, even those not named Mantle or Berra or Ford); and, (2) what were the ground rules in Original Six days for "Hockey Night In Canada." For example, did the Saturday night feature game have to include either the Leafs or Habs, or could it involve two US teams?

The Rangers fans could well have called McKenzie "Pie Face" to antagonise him.  Just about ALL Canadiens players were household names, because of Hockey Night In Canada, and because most Canadian families were either Canadiens or Leafs fans. So, even the women non-sports fans knew the names of ALL the regulars on those 2 teams.  My mother was a "hockey mom", but, she didn't really care that much about male team sports, unless she had a family member or family friend in the game. So, she cheered for her sons' and nephews' youth hockey teams, and Ab's teams.  But, she never even cared about Winnipeg's Junior, Senior and minor pro teams, otherwise.  Yet, she recognised the names of most Canadien and Leaf regulars from the '40s and '50s because of seeing adverts with them and hearing their names when we were listening to (and later watching) their games.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 01, 2018, 08:59:54 PM
Wonder  if Dolly  had  his  best games  in  Madison SG?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 01, 2018, 09:17:57 PM
Wonder  if Dolly  had  his  best games  in  Madison SG?
Why would he? 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 01, 2018, 09:34:06 PM
Robb--Dolly  swimmingly  fits with  Madison. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 02, 2018, 07:56:08 AM
Wonder  if Dolly  had  his  best games  in  Madison SG?
Why would he? 

From what I recall of Dolly, it would be hard for the casual fan (and I was one) to recognize a "best game" from St. Laurent. As I said, he was the antithesis of flashy, never really drew attention to himself. I certainly couldn't have made any judgment from game to game. Just seemed solid all the time.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 02, 2018, 10:33:49 AM
When we were mentioning Dolly St. Laurent in the Viet Nam thread, I was wondering about two things: (1) were pretty much all Montreal Canadiens players household names throughout Canada in their 1950s glory years (sort of in the way Yankees players were so well known in the USA, even those not named Mantle or Berra or Ford); and, (2) what were the ground rules in Original Six days for "Hockey Night In Canada." For example, did the Saturday night feature game have to include either the Leafs or Habs, or could it involve two US teams?

Sorry.  I forgot to answer your question #2.  I'm sure that "Hockey Night in Canada" had a preference to have a Canadian NHL team's game broadcast on Saturday night, but not likely to have had a hard and fast rule (in other words, if it were not possible to broadcast such a game, they wouldn't cancel their broadcast.  However, I don't remember ever having a Saturday Night during those years, on which a HNIC broadcast had 2 US teams playing.  Saturday evening was the most common day/time for NHL games at that time, moreso in Canada than in USA, and The Canadiens and Leafs both would have scheduled their games coordinated with HNIC's schedule.

I would guess that Dolly St. Laurent's best games would have been scattered across the several NHL rinks, with his home rinks having the best chance for his best games, over the years, with also a factor related to playing against the weaker teams, which over his career, would have included Chicago and The Rangers during his early career, and The Rangers and Boston near its end.  But, it seems like a strange comment to make.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on April 02, 2018, 12:26:23 PM
Foster Hewitt? Danny Gallivan? I was "introduced" to the "Hockey Night in Canada" bit by a friend whose parents came from Montreal. Didn't have much access to their voices in the US, but somehow an excerpt or two occasionally found a way to my ears.

Just found a YT video of portions of the Stanley Cup final game of 1933 between Rangers and Leafs. Ching Johnson, Bill & Bun Cook, etc. I remember seeing Johnson and one or both Cooks skate out at MSG in an old timers' event in the mid/late '60's. No center ice red line? Love the sweeping second hand on the game clock!   


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 02, 2018, 01:14:34 PM
- Was HNIC the ONLY televised hockey in the 1950s in Canada??

- In the U.S., the only national coverage was a Saturday afternoon game from January through the end of the season. This started in 1956 and featured Bud Palmer and Brian McFarlane (before he went to HNIC). All of the broadcasts were from Detroit, Chi, Boston or NY. What I remember was Brian doing the between-period interviews, on the ice wearing skates.

- As for local TV coverage, selective Rangers Home games were on Channels 11. Win Elliott and Bud Palmer were the announcers. Only a few Rangers Away games were even on the radio.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on April 02, 2018, 01:44:32 PM
Schaefer Circle Of Sports - Win Elliot and Bob Wolfe. WPIX-11 and WOR-9. Always, jovial, Win would describe goals by mimicking the move of the goaltender on the air. Always loved it when he did that.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 02, 2018, 02:16:23 PM
- Was HNIC the ONLY televised hockey in the 1950s in Canada??
CBC's HNIC Saturday evening games were the only NHL games shown on Canadian TV from 1952-mid 1963.  Before 1957-58, the broadcasts joined the games during the early middle of The 2nd Period, so no one would stay home to watch the game on TV.  In 57-58 through 1961-62, HNIC TV broadcasts started in the early middle of The 1st Period. In 1962-63, TV broadcasts started just before the beginning.  Of course, we could hear the game from the start on CBC Radio.  CTV started their Wednesday evening broadcasts at the start of The 1963-64 season. Those single night of the week CBC and CTV broadcasts were the only regular national TV NHL hockey broadcasts until 1967-68.  There were CBC Broadcasts of The Memorial Cup(Canadian Major Juniors) and Allan Cup Canadian Senior Amateur) playoffs, and some local regular season broadcasts.  Our Winnipeg WHL (Pro) team didn't have TV broadcasts, but did have local radio broadcasts.  Throughout most of The 1960s, The Montreal Canadians and Toronto Maple Leafs had local TV broadcasts of some home games, and away games at the other Canadian NHL city.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 02, 2018, 04:57:03 PM
Schaefer Circle Of Sports - Win Elliot and Bob Wolff. WPIX-11 and WOR-9. Always, jovial, Win would describe goals by mimicking the move of the goaltender on the air. Always loved it when he did that.

Mike, I forget about Wolff. He was a great announcer. Just died fairly recently if the same guy I'm thinking of.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 02, 2018, 05:00:49 PM
- Was HNIC the ONLY televised hockey in the 1950s in Canada??
CBC's HNIC Saturday evening games were the only NHL games shown on Canadian TV from 1952-mid 1963.  Before 1957-58, the broadcasts joined the games during the early middle of The 2nd Period, so no one would stay home to watch the game on TV.  In 57-58 through 1961-62, HNIC TV broadcasts started in the early middle of The 1st Period. In 1962-63, TV broadcasts started just before the beginning.  Of course, we could hear the game from the start on CBC Radio.  CTV started their Wednesday evening broadcasts at the start of The 1963-64 season. Those single night of the week CBC and CTV broadcasts were the only regular national TV NHL hockey broadcasts until 1967-68.  There were CBC Broadcasts of The Memorial Cup(Canadian Major Juniors) and Allan Cup Canadian Senior Amateur) playoffs, and some local regular season broadcasts.  Our Winnipeg WHL (Pro) team didn't have TV broadcasts, but did have local radio broadcasts.  Throughout most of The 1960s, The Montreal Canadians and Toronto Maple Leafs had local TV broadcasts of some home games, and away games at the other Canadian NHL city.

Hockey broadcasts (TV and radio) in the US really were FAR behind the other three major sports. I still can't believe that less than half the NY Rangers games in the 1950s were even on the radio! Radio station was too cheap to send the broadcasters on the road.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 02, 2018, 05:26:23 PM
I recall  listening to  many Ranger home games  on Sun nites--I recall the good PA  Garden announcer,  Pat  Doyle.

Home  games  on TV? I recall  only away games.


Win Elliot   also  helped out  the great Don Dunphy  on radio of Fri nite  fights. Don was prob the best  ever   fight announcer--it took a long time for  him to get to TV.
My father & I  turned down  the silly  Jimmy Powers on Fri nite fites to listen to  Dunphy.

Thinking about  PA  announcers--John F X  Condon  Knick home  PA  announcer  was best  IMO. But Philly's Dave Zinkoff  was  great also & funny.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on April 02, 2018, 05:56:10 PM
Zinkoff would stretch out the names - G-G-G-O-O-O-U-K-K-I-S (Matt) and M-E-L-L-L-C-H-I-I-I-O-N-N-I (Bill) were two of my fav's of "ordinary" players. But for Luke Jackson, he'd just say Jackson really really fast. Fun to listen to.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 02, 2018, 08:04:48 PM
Loved  the  way  he  introduced   Moses Malone  by  announcing  his HS.  His Wilt  stuff is amazing--but  Julius   ERRRRRRRVING  tops all.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 07, 2018, 08:06:54 PM
Looking through a 1954-55 NY Rangers game program. This stood out to me:

- Highest priced seat in MSG was $4.50; cheapest was 70 cents; game program 25 cents (Today, prices run from like $120-280 a game)

- Prior to the 54-55 season, slashing was not called if you swung your stick at someone and missed; Ted Lindsay was cited as the most notorious slasher in the NHL

- G Gump Worsley was only 5'7, 160; G Johnny Bower was 5'9, 170; C Bones Raleigh played at 5'11, 152; my favorites, Camille Henry, 5'10, 145 and Wally Hergesheimer, 5'8, 155; -- boy, were the players small!!

- RW Nick Mickoski was the NYRs fastest skater and had the hardest shot (I don't even remember him!)

- League had six referees -- Frank Udvari, Red Storey, Jerry Olinski, Ian Morrison, Bill Chadwick and Jack Mehlenbacher -- I recall the first two

- RW Andy Bathgate was sent back to Guelph this season for being "too raw"


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 07, 2018, 09:03:36 PM
Chadwick was  Albert's  color   man on  Ranger radio  games  in  late  60s.  Albert did Knick games solo.  I forget--what  station?   WHN, Wor?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 08, 2018, 08:09:48 AM
Chadwick was  Albert's  color   man on  Ranger radio  games  in  late  60s.  Albert did Knick games solo.  I forget--what  station?   WHN, Wor?

Late 60s, I was no longer in NY. In the 50s, Rangers radio station was WMGM.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 08, 2018, 02:19:28 PM
- G Gump Worsley was only 5'7, 160; G Johnny Bower was 5'9, 170; C Bones Raleigh played at 5'11, 152; my favorites, Camille Henry, 5'10, 145 and Wally Hergesheimer, 5'8, 155; -- boy, were the players small!!
- RW Nick Mickoski was the NYRs fastest skater and had the hardest shot (I don't even remember him!)
- League had six referees -- Frank Udvari, Red Storey, Jerry Olinski, Ian Morrison, Bill Chadwick and Jack Mehlenbacher -- I recall the first two
- RW Andy Bathgate was sent back to Guelph this season for being "too raw"

I remember all those players and referees.  Only Jerry Olinski and Jack Mehlenbacher DIDN'T make The Hockey Hall of Fame.
Andy Bathgate was a Winnipegger.  I remember him from Juniors.  He was one of my favourite players.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 08, 2018, 06:03:59 PM
- G Gump Worsley was only 5'7, 160; G Johnny Bower was 5'9, 170; C Bones Raleigh played at 5'11, 152; my favorites, Camille Henry, 5'10, 145 and Wally Hergesheimer, 5'8, 155; -- boy, were the players small!!
- RW Nick Mickoski was the NYRs fastest skater and had the hardest shot (I don't even remember him!)
- League had six referees -- Frank Udvari, Red Storey, Jerry Olinski, Ian Morrison, Bill Chadwick and Jack Mehlenbacher -- I recall the first two
- RW Andy Bathgate was sent back to Guelph this season for being "too raw"

I remember all those players and referees.  Only Jerry Olinski and Jack Mehlenbacher DIDN'T make The Hockey Hall of Fame.
Andy Bathgate was a Winnipegger.  I remember him from Juniors.  He was one of my favourite players.

Think Hergesheimer and Mickoski (the one player I did not recall) were from Winnipeg too? Others as well. You've explained to us before why the Rangers had more than their fair share of Manitobans. Territorial thing, right?  How about those admission prices, huh. 70 cents to sit in the nosebleed seats in New York City. What would that buy you in Manhattan today?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 08, 2018, 06:38:43 PM
Frank Udvari was the ref who got punched in this video, causing Rocket Richard to be suspended, and the Francophone fans to riot four days later in the Forum. Poor Red Storey got to ref the game when the riot occurred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4XPedB9mA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4XPedB9mA)


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 08, 2018, 11:37:00 PM
Think Hergesheimer and Mickoski (the one player I did not recall) were from Winnipeg too? Others as well. You've explained to us before why the Rangers had more than their fair share of Manitobans. Territorial thing, right?  How about those admission prices, huh. 70 cents to sit in the nosebleed seats in New York City. What would that buy you in Manhattan today?
Hergesheimer,Mickoski and Bathgate were ALL from Manitoba. But they played for 3 different junior teams.  ALL 6 NHL teams sponsored Junior A teams, AAA teams, Junior B teams in each province (with the exception of Prince Edward Island, which didn't have enough population to support 6 Junior A teams). Only Toronto, Montreal and Boston had teams there, but all 6 had teams in New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland (although, not all were Junior A). ALL 6 sponsored Junior A teams in each of B. C., Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec.  In Quebec, and French Brunswick, Montreal sponsored many, many Junior teams. In Ontario, Toronto sponsored a lot more than others. But, in The Prairie Provinces, and B.C. , and The Maritimes, all 6 had roughly equal representation. It wasn't until 1956, that MY team, The Winnipeg Rangers started their affiliation with The NY Rangers. Before that, they were The Winnipeg Blackhawks. The Manitoba Junior Hockey League usually had at least 2 Winnipeg teams, and often 3. So 3 of the 6 NHL teams often had a team in Winnipeg.  Brandon, Flin Flon, St. Boniface and other towns had teams sponsored by other NHL teams.  When The MJHL had 12 teams, every NHL team had at least 1 farm team in it, but most had 2.  But, yes, Manitoba was a feeder to The Rangers.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 09, 2018, 01:02:17 AM
Joe  wen Rangers  were  on  WMGM--Jin Gordon I think announced.  Marty Glickman  announced on radio  in the late50s early60s.  Not sure which station-.  Marv Albert may have been the only announcer to  both BB   & hockey--Ranger/Knicks  at MSG.  I'll have to Google  to find which station.  .-


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 09, 2018, 10:52:40 AM
Anyone recall Marty Glickman doing High School football games on Saturday mornings on WPIX? Talk about jack of all trades. Nothing was beneath him. Loved New Dorp's Single Wing attack, with the fullback "spinners" and all that!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 09, 2018, 02:24:18 PM
never watched--but was that Glickman?  I  left  out  Knicks  he announced.  Then of course  Giants footballin the Tittle  yrs.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 09, 2018, 04:32:02 PM
never watched--but was that Glickman?  I  left  out  Knicks  he announced.  Then of course  Giants footballin the Tittle  yrs.

I can understand why you never watched. 11am on a Sat morning with two high schools? Yep, that WAS Marty doing the broadcast though. I know hecwas a teammate of Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Ran the 400 meters. Also was a football star at Syracuse. Son of Romanian Jewish immigrants. Star athlete at Madison HS in Brooklyn.

Other James Madison alums of note: Cal Abrams, Marvin Miller, Martin Landau, Carole King, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Cousin Brucie Morrow, Frank Torre, and Sonny Werblin.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 09, 2018, 07:23:07 PM
never watched--but was that Glickman?  I  left  out  Knicks  he announced.  Then of course  Giants footballin the Tittle  yrs.

I can understand why you never watched. 11am on a Sat morning with two high schools? Yep, that WAS Marty doing the broadcast though. I know hecwas a teammate of Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Ran the 400 meters. Also was a football star at Syracuse. Son of Romanian Jewish immigrants. Star athlete at Madison HS in Brooklyn.

Other James Madison alums of note: Cal Abrams, Marvin Miller, Martin Landau, Carole King, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Cousin Brucie Morrow, Frank Torre, and Sonny Werblin.
Frank Torre, but NOT Joe Torre?  Did The Torres move? 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 09, 2018, 08:02:02 PM
never watched--but was that Glickman?  I  left  out  Knicks  he announced.  Then of course  Giants footballin the Tittle  yrs.

I can understand why you never watched. 11am on a Sat morning with two high schools? Yep, that WAS Marty doing the broadcast though. I know hecwas a teammate of Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Ran the 400 meters. Also was a football star at Syracuse. Son of Romanian Jewish immigrants. Star athlete at Madison HS in Brooklyn.

Other James Madison alums of note: Cal Abrams, Marvin Miller, Martin Landau, Carole King, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Cousin Brucie Morrow, Frank Torre, and Sonny Werblin.
Frank Torre, but NOT Joe Torre?  Did The Torres move? 

Unlike older brother Frank, Joe Torre went to St. Francis Prep, a Catholic HS in Brooklyn. I suspect he went on athletic scholarship because I'm sure St. Francis cost more than the free public HS.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 09, 2018, 10:05:01 PM
never watched--but was that Glickman?  I  left  out  Knicks  he announced.  Then of course  Giants footballin the Tittle  yrs.

I can understand why you never watched. 11am on a Sat morning with two high schools? Yep, that WAS Marty doing the broadcast though. I know hecwas a teammate of Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Ran the 400 meters. Also was a football star at Syracuse. Son of Romanian Jewish immigrants. Star athlete at Madison HS in Brooklyn.

Other James Madison alums of note: Cal Abrams, Marvin Miller, Martin Landau, Carole King, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Cousin Brucie Morrow, Frank Torre, and Sonny Werblin.
Frank Torre, but NOT Joe Torre?  Did The Torres move? 

Unlike older brother Frank, Joe Torre went to St. Francis Prep, a Catholic HS in Brooklyn. I suspect he went on athletic scholarship because I'm sure St. Francis cost more than the free public HS.

Makes sense.  But, I'd have guessed both were good enough athletes to get scholarships.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 09, 2018, 10:15:03 PM
Joe  my pop told me  that Brundage replaced Marty with a Christian  to appease Hitler.  Brundage was a anti semite--well known.

Loved  Jesse  & the Brown bomber  giving  the FU  to Adolph.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 09, 2018, 10:22:48 PM
Just cheated &  per Wikipedia--Rangers/ Knicks  were on  WNBC & then WNEw.  Briefly WHN-WMGM  earlier


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 10, 2018, 07:42:53 AM
Joe  my pop told me  that Brundage replaced Marty with a Christian  to appease Hitler.  Brundage was a anti semite--well known.

Loved  Jesse  & the Brown bomber  giving  the FU  to Adolph.
Replaced Marty and another Jewish sprinter with two black guys (more acceptable to Hitler).


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 10, 2018, 07:50:10 AM
never watched--but was that Glickman?  I  left  out  Knicks  he announced.  Then of course  Giants footballin the Tittle  yrs.

I can understand why you never watched. 11am on a Sat morning with two high schools? Yep, that WAS Marty doing the broadcast though. I know hecwas a teammate of Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Ran the 400 meters. Also was a football star at Syracuse. Son of Romanian Jewish immigrants. Star athlete at Madison HS in Brooklyn.

Other James Madison alums of note: Cal Abrams, Marvin Miller, Martin Landau, Carole King, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Cousin Brucie Morrow, Frank Torre, and Sonny Werblin.
Frank Torre, but NOT Joe Torre?  Did The Torres move? 

Unlike older brother Frank, Joe Torre went to St. Francis Prep, a Catholic HS in Brooklyn. I suspect he went on athletic scholarship because I'm sure St. Francis cost more than the free public HS.

Makes sense.  But, I'd have guessed both were good enough athletes to get scholarships.

I'm sure they were. In fact, wasn't Frank initially thought to be the better player of the two when signed out of HS? I think he was. Believe the parents got divorced somewhere in there between Frank and Joe's high school days. Maybe that had something to do with Joe going to the Catholic school. Father was abusive I believe; Frank and his mom took the brunt of that until Frank got big enough to stand up to the old man.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Gino on April 10, 2018, 07:52:07 AM
Another Madison alum - Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.  Bernie Sanders was in my class - '59.  Knew Joe Torre back in the day - drove like a wild man.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 10, 2018, 08:16:35 AM
Who does everyone like to win this year's Stanley Cup? Odds makers favorites -- Hockey News:

Nashville Predators  7/2
Tampa Bay Lightning  6/1
Boston Bruins  25/4
Vegas Golden Knights  7/1
Pittsburgh Penguins  17/2
Winnipeg Jets  10/1
Toronto Maple Leafs  14/1
Washington Capitals  16/1
San Jose Sharks  22/1
Anaheim Ducks  25/1
Los Angeles Kings  25/1
Colorado Avalanche  28/1
Columbus Blue Jackets  28/1
Minnesota Wild  28/1
Philadelphia Flyers  33/1
New Jersey Devils  40/1


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 10, 2018, 07:58:53 PM
Who does everyone like to win this year's Stanley Cup? Odds makers favorites -- Hockey News:

Nashville Predators  7/2
Tampa Bay Lightning  6/1
Boston Bruins  25/4
Vegas Golden Knights  7/1
Pittsburgh Penguins  17/2
Winnipeg Jets  10/1
Toronto Maple Leafs  14/1
Washington Capitals  16/1
San Jose Sharks  22/1
Anaheim Ducks  25/1
Los Angeles Kings  25/1
Colorado Avalanche  28/1
Columbus Blue Jackets  28/1
Minnesota Wild  28/1
Philadelphia Flyers  33/1
New Jersey Devils  40/1
I want my home town team, Winnipeg, to win.  But, I think Nashville is the team to beat.  I don't think Las Vegas will win even one series.  I am surprised they are rated so high.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 10, 2018, 08:17:41 PM
Rooting (probably in vain again) for my home town (since 1966) Washington Capitals.

Really like to watch Winnipeg young guys skate and score but fear goaltending needed to win Cup is just not there.

Think the smart money is on the Predators.

First Round Upsets: Kings over Vegas and Flyers over Penguins


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on April 10, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Vegas--opponents  will  get  party and get drunk  the nite  before   games there.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 20, 2018, 11:51:34 AM
How many goaltenders were good enough to have possibly played other positions at the NHL level? Only one I've heard mentioned was Ron Hextall who was thought by some scouts to be skilled enough to have made it as a defenseman.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: jp05 on April 20, 2018, 08:01:38 PM
Hockey's back! The hockey season really begins with the playoffs. The 82 game regular season is almost all dull, dump and chase games. The playoffs brings back full speed shifts, aggressive play and games that are exciting and fun to watch.

Robb, I usually check the hockey thread but rarely comment. Still my favorite sport, followed by NFL football then baseball. Don't lose heart!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 20, 2018, 08:23:20 PM
jp, agree! Can't beat playoff hockey!! Penguins really flying!

My adopted Washington Caps (known for their many playoff choke jobs) lose the first two at home to go down 0-2, then win two road games at Columbus to tie the series. 3 of the 4 games go OT.

Robb, you've lamented the diminishing role of Canada in the modern day NHL. Here's another sad piece of comparative "evidence' of that -- Of the Caps current 27 man roster, only 7 players were born in Canada and only one of those seven (backup G Braden Holtby) is a major contributor. Lotta Americans, Russians, Slavs and Scandinavians. The original Caps expansion team roster in 1974-75 saw 38 players skate for them -- 36 were from Canada. Just unbelievable how things have changed!



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on April 21, 2018, 10:56:25 AM
Robb, you've lamented the diminishing role of Canada in the modern day NHL. Here's another sad piece of comparative "evidence' of that -- Of the Caps current 27 man roster, only 7 players were born in Canada and only one of those seven (backup G Braden Holtby) is a major contributor. Lotta Americans, Russians, Slavs and Scandinavians. The original Caps expansion team roster in 1974-75 saw 38 players skate for them -- 36 were from Canada. Just unbelievable how things have changed!

Back when I was young, and playing, Canadians made up 99% of The NHL, and a handful of Americans made up the rest.  Now, only about 55% of NHL players are Canadians, and even the #1 choice in The Entry Draft has come from not only USA, but even from a southern desert city, where it has never snowed during the time Humans have been on Earth!  Still, The Caps are unusually low on Canadians.  Most teams are 50 to 60 % Canadian-born.  In addition to that, many of the best European and US NHL players played Major Junior Hockey in Canada, as preparation for The NHL.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on April 21, 2018, 12:18:02 PM
Robb, I miscounted on the Caps roster. There are 9 Canadians (still light at 33%). The rest break down as 5 Americans, 4 Scandinavians, 4 Russians, 3 Slavs, 1 German, 1 Australian. Still, more Canadians than any other national group.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on April 21, 2018, 01:51:25 PM
In the regular season, I still have trouble getting past the *&^%> shootout format now used to avoid ties or prolonged O/T. Thankfully, once the playoffs started, we're back to real hockey and the possibility of great exciting to the death "proper" overtime sessions. Love it.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 07, 2018, 10:38:33 AM
Robb--now that Tampa Bay has  a good  chance  to   play Vegas  in Stanley  Cup-- things could be  worse--Yadier Molina is out a  month because of  testicular  hematomas. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 07, 2018, 11:37:59 AM
Boy, a number of us continue to be wrong on Vegas. Especially me, picking the Kings (who were swept).

So, it looks like Winnipeg or Nashville vs VGK in the West and Caps or Penguins vs Lightning in the East.

Lightning look very impressive to me. McDonagh really tightened up their defense and they certainly can score goals. Vasilevskiy an underrated goalie.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 08, 2018, 07:33:31 AM
How 'bout those Caps! Finally broke through against their nemesis. Without Backstrom and Wilson. Still don't like their chances against Stamkos & Company.

Nice Game 7 coming up between Jets-Predators to round out last four teams standing.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 10, 2018, 11:18:39 PM
How 'bout those Caps! Finally broke through against their nemesis. Without Backstrom and Wilson. Still don't like their chances against Stamkos & Company.

Nice Game 7 coming up between Jets-Predators to round out last four teams standing.

And how about those Jets, beating The Preds!  There is some justice in The World.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on May 11, 2018, 12:50:51 AM
Congratulations Rob - At least one "real" hockey city (and from the right side of the border to boot  ;)) is still in it.  The Vegas story is incredible though.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 11, 2018, 04:47:22 PM
Is this Backstom related to  older Ralph Backstrom from Mtl?  Maybe father?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 11, 2018, 07:07:07 PM
Is this Backstom related to  older Ralph Backstrom from Mtl?  Maybe father?
Ralph was definitely neither Nicklas' father nor grandfather.  They are not likely to be closer than 5th cousins.  Ralph was born in Kirkland Lake, Ontario.  His grandfather had immigrated to Canada from Sweden during the mid 1800s.  Backstrom is an extremely common name in Swedish, meaning "stream/creek in the background, or behind, or behind or on the other side of the stream.  It is like Smith, Jones, Miller, Taylor in English.  People all over the country had that name, with no relation to others in other parts of the country.  They were the farmer's family who lived on the other side of the stream from a village.  Nicklas' family comes from Gavle, a few hundred kilometres north of Stockholm, while Ralph's comes from several hundred kilometres south and west of there.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 13, 2018, 03:54:56 AM
The Jets beat The Golden Knights in game 1, 4-2.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 13, 2018, 11:35:32 AM
Thanx Robb--but I guess  Ranger Walt Tkachuk  (not sure of spelling)  is related to current player.  As  I post this--there is tremendous #  of   MLB &  NBA  sons playing now-- even   some 3  generations--Boones,  Hairstons etc.

Doesn't seem many  in NHL.  Right?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 13, 2018, 01:31:26 PM
Thanx Robb--but I guess  Ranger Walt Tkachuk  (not sure of spelling)  is related to current player.  As  I post this--there is tremendous #  of   MLB &  NBA  sons playing now-- even   some 3  generations--Boones,  Hairstons etc. Doesn't seem many  in NHL.  Right?
Not at all. There are many, many (hundreds) - probably much more than in MLB (at the very least much more on a % basis of all players who were Severin each league) - including fathers & sons, grandfathers, brothers, cousins, and grandfathers that have been and are in The NHL.  It would take me the rest of my life just to name them all.  Just the last 3 years' rookie crop has many. Keith Tkachuck's, Dave Lowrey's sons, Moe Mantha's grandson, to name just a few.  So many retirees become hockey coaches at various levels, and their kids naturally have an advantage in coming up in the sport.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 13, 2018, 05:04:12 PM
The Jets beat The Golden Knights in game 1, 4-2.

Watched that one. VERY impressive. Played stifling defense. Forced a lot of "east-west" passes by Vegas. Had them on their heels. Man, Hellebuyck is a big goaltender, tall and wide.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 13, 2018, 08:12:43 PM
Thanx  Robb. Is  east west goal to goal  or side to  side?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 14, 2018, 12:54:10 AM
Thanx  Robb. Is  east west goal to goal  or side to  side?

North-South is goal crease to goal crease.  East-West is sideways, parallel to the Red Line, Blue Lines, and goal lines.  The International game, which has a 100 ft. rink width, as opposed to The NHL's 85 ft. width, has more of an east-west offence puck-carrying and passing game, due to the wider playing area.  The NHL has more of a north-south game, - get the puck up ice quickly before the defence can set up.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 14, 2018, 07:48:51 AM
Anyone see my Caps decisively beat the Lightning last night, 6-2? So far, TB shows me nothing on defense. Caps can carry the puck end to end with total ease. Vasilevskiy looks weak in goal. Caps 7-1 on the road, only 3-3 at home though.

Lars Eller is playing so well that the Caps aren't missing Niklas Backstrom. Just kidding. Backstrom is truly one of the league's elite playmakers. No one has more patience with the puck. Youngest Swede to ever play for their National Team (age 18).

Robb, Eller is from Denmark. Not near the playmaker Backstrom is but ... more physical. What's the deal with the Jets' Dane, Ehlers? Why not playing? Not too many Danes to really leave a strong mark on the NHL. Frans Nielsen. Who else?



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 14, 2018, 06:37:04 PM
Backstrom is 1 of the league's elite playmakers. No one has more patience with the puck. Youngest Swede to ever play for National Team(18). Eller is from Denmark. Not near the playmaker Backstrom is-but more physical. Not too many Danes to really leave a strong mark on the NHL. Frans Nielsen. Who else?

There is good reason for Sweden producing a lot more NHL players than Denmark. Sweden has a large area of its country north of 60 degrees north. It also has a continental climate, with winds coming from The Arctic, Finland and Russia for much of the year. Denmark, & Norway, by contrast, enjoy warmer winds from The Atlantic Ocean Gulf Stream. Denmark is mostly further south than most of Sweden, made up of islands and peninsulas surrounded by seawater, much warmer than land in winter. So, like most of Canada, Sweden has frozen ponds for 4-7 months per year, on which kids can play for free, and hone their skills. So, Sweden has had a tradition of Bandy and Hockey playing for over 300 years, while they are not traditional games in Denmark, because it has very few lakes which freeze over for more than 2 months.  Therefore, there of few great coaches there, and few ice rinks (no outdoor rinks). Denmark's ice hockey programme is only about 40 years old, and has few excellent coaches. Traditionally, Danish players need to play during their mid and late teen years in Sweden(Swedish Elite Late and Alsvenskan), to play on a high enough level to prepare for The NHL. I know all these except Popiel, as I live part time in Herning, where The Danish National team trains, and am friendly with some workers in their training complex. My 2nd best friend in Denmark went to school with a few of their fathers. Ehlers has been plagued by nagging small injuries throughout the playoffs. The following Danish players have made The NHL:
                               Born  P    Games   G     A     Pts  
1   Frans Nielsen   1984   F   764   152   271   423      
2   Mikkel Boedker   1989   F   618   109   179   288      
3   Jannik Hansen   1986   F   626   109   147   256      
4   Lars Eller      1989 F   604   103   116   219      
5   Nikolaj Ehlers   1996   F   236   69   93   162      
6   Peter Regin   1986   F   243   23   44   67      
7   Oliver Bjorkstrand 1995F   120   21   40   61   
8   Poul Popiel             1943D   225   13   41   54      
9   Philip Larsen    1984D   151   9   28   37      
10   Frederik Andersen1989G   257   0   7   7      
11   Nicklas Jensen   1993   F   31   3   3   6      
12   Oliver Lauridsen   1989   D   16   2   1   3   




Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 14, 2018, 11:04:27 PM
Robb-no disrespect-but was all that  of he top  of your head.  Amazing..


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 14, 2018, 11:50:12 PM
Robb-no disrespect-but was all that  of he top  of your head.  Amazing..
Everything but the statistics (Which, I, of course, looked up), and I forgot Peter Regin (but, of course, knew of him, and remember him).  Goalie, Fredrik Andersen, Lars Eller, Mikkel Boedker, Hansen, Ehlers, Bjoerkstrand, Jensen, Larsen, Hansen, Lauridsen are all good, young players, trained in Sweden.  But, of course, Sweden has many, many times more skaters, and so, many, many more chances to produce NHL stars.  Eller's father is Denmark's national team's coach.  I pay a lot of attention to The Swedish Elite League and The Alsvenskan, as well as International Hockey tournaments and national teams. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 16, 2018, 08:12:15 PM
Anyone catch the "Intro" to the VGK-Winnipeg game tonight? Lights darkened, some guy with a sword representing the Jets skates out, then the Vegas Golden Knight mascot. They proceed to fight with the Knight vanquishing the poor Jet. Then, a huge light show in the rafters!! Don't know if a hockey games or Vegas floor show is about to break out.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 17, 2018, 01:19:53 AM
Anyone catch the "Intro" to the VGK-Winnipeg game tonight? Lights darkened, some guy with a sword representing the Jets skates out, then the Vegas Golden Knight mascot. They proceed to fight with the Knight vanquishing the poor Jet. Then, a huge light show in the rafters!! Don't know if a hockey games or Vegas floor show is about to break out.

I didn't see that, but I saw the unfortunate Winnipeg loss.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 17, 2018, 09:04:07 AM
Yeah, thought the Jets were gonna come back in the 3rd period. They had the best of it the last half of the game but ...

How does a player like Marchessault go completely undrafted? I mean, he had a very good career in the QMJHL with the Remparts. I know he's small but he actually won the award for the best defensive player in the QMJHL one year. I mean, there's over 200 players selected and he wasn't worth even a 7th round pick!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 17, 2018, 02:32:18 PM
Yeah, thought the Jets were gonna come back in the 3rd period. They had the best of it the last half of the game but ...

How does a player like Marchessault go completely undrafted? I mean, he had a very good career in the QMJHL with the Remparts. I know he's small but he actually won the award for the best defensive player in the QMJHL one year. I mean, there's over 200 players selected and he wasn't worth even a 7th round pick!

Yes.  He should have been drafted in the 3rd or 4th Round.  He is small, but has good skill. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 17, 2018, 05:10:43 PM
Yeah, thought the Jets were gonna come back in the 3rd period. They had the best of it the last half of the game but ...

How does a player like Marchessault go completely undrafted? I mean, he had a very good career in the QMJHL with the Remparts. I know he's small but he actually won the award for the best defensive player in the QMJHL one year. I mean, there's over 200 players selected and he wasn't worth even a 7th round pick!

Yes.  He should have been drafted in the 3rd or 4th Round.  He is small, but has good skill. 

All GMs make mistakes, in all sports. Over time, though, how many undersized but quick, skilled players from Quebec have panned out?

Just a few other undrafted players looking back over time (I obviously looked this up): Goalies - Eddie Belfour, Glenn Healy, CuJo, Chico Resch   Skaters - Martin St-Louis, Dino Ciccarelli, Geoff Courtnall, Tim Kerr, Joe Mullen, Adam Oates



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 17, 2018, 05:23:25 PM
Postgame show--Milbury  called Vegas  Las  Vegas--it may be the  only  team  that  has  an abbreviated official  location.  Ie,  Vegas NOT Las Vegas.

I didn't   look it up. ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 21, 2018, 11:01:01 AM
I'm so happy for those long-suffering Vegas fans!


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 21, 2018, 02:05:55 PM
Robb's worst nitemare--Vegas v Tampa?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 21, 2018, 06:57:17 PM
Robb's worst nitemare--Vegas v Tampa?

It could be worse. Cairo vs. Calcutta!   :'(


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 21, 2018, 07:23:00 PM
Prior to the expansion draft, the Caps had to choose from Lars Eller, Tom Wilson, or Nate Schmidt to expose to the draft. Killed me to lose the former Minnesota Golden Gopher Schmidt but I understood protecting the other two given that the Caps have more depth coming up on defense. The way Schmidt has played for Vegas, though, I'm really having second thoughts.

I couldn't stand George McPhee when he was the Caps GM for many years but gotta give him his due with Vegas. He's another of those former Guelph players who made it to the league with the NY Rangers.

Caps-Lightning - GAME 7 Weds nite in Tampa. Whichever team goes to Cup finals, just have a feeling it's Vegas's year.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 22, 2018, 11:24:32 PM
Read in LA  Times  the  silly  comment --Vegas  is   1st  expansion  team to  go  to Stanley  Cup in 1st year since the Blues in 1967. Technically true,but  the history was omitted.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: bklynmike101 on May 23, 2018, 11:21:26 AM
DDW,

I caught that too. I'm always both amused and peeved when I see a silly, misleading "fact" (usually sports) in a normally reliable publication. I saw a piece somewhere - perhaps in that same LAT article and perhaps not - stating Knights appearance in finals was first by an NHL expansion team since both the '66-67 Blues and '17-18 Toronto St. Pats. (aka Arena's). Really?  Captain Obvious would know that there has to be a first finalist in a league's (or division's) 1st year of operations - no?

Clearly, Knights are the '"first" (with any significance).

I'm not a Knights fan per se, nor a Las Vegas person, but what the team has done, new draft rules and all, is still remarkable. 


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: doctordoowop on May 23, 2018, 11:18:06 PM
mike--biggest  reason  for Vegas success is   the  "hard"  salary cap --no?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 24, 2018, 08:09:31 AM
In opening odds, Vegas GK given 65 percent chance over Capitals to win Stanley Cup. Same odds TB Lightning were given to win Game 7 last night.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 24, 2018, 12:24:49 PM
Robb, last week Caps fans and local media calling for Barry Trotz to be fired. Of course, now he is the toast of Washington, DC. Story told in today's paper about his growing up in Dauphin, Manitoba. Are you familiar with the place? Trotz played his Junior hockey for the Dauphin Kings.

Apparently, he never played a minute in the NHL. Played a couple seasons in the WHL for the Regina Pats.



Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 24, 2018, 07:43:20 PM
Robb, last week Caps fans and local media calling for Barry Trotz to be fired. Of course, now he is the toast of Washington, DC. Story told in today's paper about his growing up in Dauphin, Manitoba. Are you familiar with the place? Trotz played his Junior hockey for the Dauphin Kings.

Apparently, he never played a minute in the NHL. Played a couple seasons in the WHL for the Regina Pats.

Of course, I'm familiar with Dauphin.  Its a town northwest of Winnipeg, which was almost half Ukrainian.  Several very good hockey players came from there.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 24, 2018, 08:41:46 PM
Robb, last week Caps fans and local media calling for Barry Trotz to be fired. Of course, now he is the toast of Washington, DC. Story told in today's paper about his growing up in Dauphin, Manitoba. Are you familiar with the place? Trotz played his Junior hockey for the Dauphin Kings.

Apparently, he never played a minute in the NHL. Played a couple seasons in the WHL for the Regina Pats.

Of course, I'm familiar with Dauphin.  Its a town northwest of Winnipeg, which was almost half Ukrainian.  Several very good hockey players came from there.

Apparently, some curlers too. Figured you'd be familiar with Dauphin (although I knew Manitoba covers a lot of land with some remote places up north). Would you say most of the province's population lives within 100 miles or so of Winnipeg?


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: Robb_K on May 24, 2018, 09:58:08 PM
Robb, last week Caps fans and local media calling for Barry Trotz to be fired. Of course, now he is the toast of Washington, DC. Story told in today's paper about his growing up in Dauphin, Manitoba. Are you familiar with the place? Trotz played his Junior hockey for the Dauphin Kings.

Apparently, he never played a minute in the NHL. Played a couple seasons in the WHL for the Regina Pats.

Of course, I'm familiar with Dauphin.  Its a town northwest of Winnipeg, which was almost half Ukrainian.  Several very good hockey players came from there.

Apparently, some curlers too. Figured you'd be familiar with Dauphin (although I knew Manitoba covers a lot of land with some remote places up north). Would you say most of the province's population lives within 100 miles or so of Winnipeg?

Yes.  The North has only a few small towns.


Title: Re: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)
Post by: JoeC on May 25, 2018, 08:15:41 AM
Looked at a map. Manitoba sure has a lot of lakes! Big ones too!

Saw a "ranking" of NHL players from Manitoba. Ranking was offensively-oriented but Top 3 players were :

1, Bobby Clarke
2. Andy Bathgate
3. Butch Goring

I'd forgotten that Bobby Clarke was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes as a very young teenager.