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 1 
 on: January 16, 2020, 09:27:47 AM 
Started by doctordoowop - Last post by JoeC
You're right, Robb.

I was of the opinion that Woodling was basically "through" when the Yanks traded him. But ... he actually had another four or five solid years in him, not to mention the leadership he brought! Hal Smith gave the O's two solid years behind the plate. Byrd may have been injured in '55? Only went 3-2 before a trade to the White Sox for the '56 season.

 2 
 on: January 15, 2020, 11:27:13 PM 
Started by doctordoowop - Last post by Robb_K
Anyone remember Don Larson starting out with The St. Louis Browns?  I followed them because my cousin was a Browns' farmhand in the late 1940s and beginning of the '50s.  Larson was 7-12 in his first full season with The Browns.  And then he had the bad luck year in their first year in Baltimore (54), where the batters, and especially the fielders didn't support him, and he had a dismal won/lost record of 3-21.  A pitcher seemingly that bad couldn't pitch a perfect game under pressure.  It shows you how much a pitching record depends upon the skill of the fielders behind him.
Of those 3 wins Don had for the Orioles in 1954, 2 of them were against the Yankees. Go figure! Don joked once that those 2 wins got the NYY's attention and played a role in their trading for him.

Speaking of that trade it was a massive deal in terms of players involved:

Harry Byrd, Jim McDonald, Willy Miranda, Hal Smith, Gus Triandos and Gene Woodling to the Baltimore Orioles. NY received Billy Hunter, Don Larsen and Bob Turley. The New York Yankees, a month later, sent Bill Miller, Kal Segrist, Don Leppert and Theodore Del Guercio to the Baltimore Orioles to complete the trade with the Os sending Mike Blyzka, Darrell Johnson, Jim Fridley and Dick Kryhoski to the New York Yankees

In reality, it was basically Triandos going to Baltimore for Turley and Larsen. Triandos hit 142 HR for the Orioles.

The '54 orioles had been The '53 St. Louis Browns, who had been depleted of decent ballplayers by ownership selling off all their players of almost any worth since Veek realised he could never earn money in St. Louis once The Cards were bought by Gussie Busch.  They had holes all over their lineup.  The trade wasn't essentially just Triandos for Larsen and Turley.  It was Larsen and Turley for several halfway decent players to help bring The Orioles an actual major league lineup.  In addition to Triandos, they got Harry Byrd, a halfway decent starting pitcher who had suffered from playing on a bad Philadelphia A's team, and .300 hitter, Gene Woodling, and another decent catcher, Hal Smith.  So, The Orioles didn't just give Larsen and Turley away/  They probably got some operating cash back as well.  The Orioles had a MUCH better record in '55 than they did in their horrible, Brownslike 104 loss '54 season.

 3 
 on: January 15, 2020, 12:46:45 PM 
Started by doctordoowop - Last post by JoeC
Larsen was far better than many pitchers. Overall I'd consider him to be about average - i.e. mediocre. He did manage to stay in MLB for 10+ years, a feat not all that many players are able to achieve. As to his perfect game, there is  certain amount of luck involved. While some great pitchers have perfect games or perhaps multiple no-hitters (e.g. Nolan Ryan), some no-no's and even perfect games have been tossed by hurlers who were marginal at best, even quite inferior to Larsen.

I have always remembered seeing that incredible 3-21 record on Larsen's baseball card for the first time back in '61. I also recall a wise pundit opining that anyone who is good enough to lose 20 games in a season isn't all that bad - implying that to get that many opportunities involves being quite a bit better than the many hurlers who don't stay in the show long enough to even contemplate acquiring a 20 loss season. Another baseball card memory was seeing Hal Griggs who had accumulated something like an 8-26 lifetime W-L record at one point.    
Larsen was average for that 16 team era. With full expansion, he'd likely look a lot better on paper and probably coulda pitched 15 years. I had the same reaction as you to seeing that 3-21 on his baseball card. Before expansion, you almost never saw 20 losses, or anything approaching that. Turley, on the other hand, could've been a great pitcher if he'd ever mastered control (especially in the first inning). He was very good, as it was, even with the walks.

 4 
 on: January 15, 2020, 12:37:11 PM 
Started by doctordoowop - Last post by bklynmike101
Larsen was far better than many pitchers. Overall I'd consider him to be about average - i.e. mediocre. He did manage to stay in MLB for 10+ years, a feat not all that many players are able to achieve. As to his perfect game, there is  certain amount of luck involved. While some great pitchers have perfect games or perhaps multiple no-hitters (e.g. Nolan Ryan), some no-no's and even perfect games have been tossed by hurlers who were marginal at best, even quite inferior to Larsen.

I have always remembered seeing that incredible 3-21 record on Larsen's baseball card for the first time back in '61. I also recall a wise pundit opining that anyone who is good enough to lose 20 games in a season isn't all that bad - implying that to get that many opportunities involves being quite a bit better than the many hurlers who don't stay in the show long enough to even contemplate acquiring a 20 loss season. Another baseball card memory was seeing Hal Griggs who had accumulated something like an 8-26 lifetime W-L record at one point.     

 5 
 on: January 14, 2020, 02:35:03 PM 
Started by doctordoowop - Last post by JoeC
Anyone remember Don Larson starting out with The St. Louis Browns?  I followed them because my cousin was a Browns' farmhand in the late 1940s and beginning of the '50s.  Larson was 7-12 in his first full season with The Browns.  And then he had the bad luck year in their first year in Baltimore (54), where the batters, and especially the fielders didn't support him, and he had a dismal won/lost record of 3-21.  A pitcher seemingly that bad couldn't pitch a perfect game under pressure.  It shows you how much a pitching record depends upon the skill of the fielders behind him.
Of those 3 wins Don had for the Orioles in 1954, 2 of them were against the Yankees. Go figure! Don joked once that those 2 wins got the NYY's attention and played a role in their trading for him.

Speaking of that trade it was a massive deal in terms of players involved:

Harry Byrd, Jim McDonald, Willy Miranda, Hal Smith, Gus Triandos and Gene Woodling to the Baltimore Orioles. NY received Billy Hunter, Don Larsen and Bob Turley. The New York Yankees, a month later, sent Bill Miller, Kal Segrist, Don Leppert and Theodore Del Guercio to the Baltimore Orioles to complete the trade with the Os sending Mike Blyzka, Darrell Johnson, Jim Fridley and Dick Kryhoski to the New York Yankees

In reality, it was basically Triandos going to Baltimore for Turley and Larsen. Triandos hit 142 HR for the Orioles.

 6 
 on: January 14, 2020, 01:11:21 PM 
Started by doctordoowop - Last post by Robb_K
Anyone remember Don Larson starting out with The St. Louis Browns?  I followed them because my cousin was a Browns' farmhand in the late 1940s and beginning of the '50s.  Larson was 7-12 in his first full season with The Browns.  And then he had the bad luck year in their first year in Baltimore (54), where the batters, and especially the fielders didn't support him, and he had a dismal won/lost record of 3-21.  A pitcher seemingly that bad couldn't pitch a perfect game under pressure.  It shows you how much a pitching record depends upon the skill of the fielders behind him.

 7 
 on: January 13, 2020, 05:51:16 PM 
Started by doctordoowop - Last post by JoeC
I think I remember QB Parilli with the Boston or New England Patriots in the early 60's, as a 35+ year old back-up who could still play well.

Imagine how many K's there'd be today if umpires used the larger 50's/60's strike zone! As it was, only HR sluggers - and only some of them - were "permitted" to whiff 100 x or more per year. Today, some part-time guys reach that amount - i.e. 100+ K's, 15-18 HR's, and a .217 batting average.
Yeah, you're right on Vito "Babe"Parilli playing for the Patriots. Earlier, think he was with the Packers in the 50s as a starter. Not nearly as many Walks back in the day as there are now. Ball was mostly "in play." Now, it's HR or strikeout.

 8 
 on: January 13, 2020, 12:21:47 PM 
Started by doctordoowop - Last post by bklynmike101
I think I remember QB Parilli with the Boston or New England Patriots in the early 60's, as a 35+ year old back-up who could still play well.

Imagine how many K's there'd be today if umpires used the larger 50's/60's strike zone! As it was, only HR sluggers - and only some of them - were "permitted" to whiff 100 x or more per year. Today, some part-time guys reach that amount - i.e. 100+ K's, 15-18 HR's, and a .217 batting average.

 9 
 on: January 13, 2020, 09:09:10 AM 
Started by doctordoowop - Last post by JoeC
Poor Dale Mitchell, rung up by the blue's excitement. Was it Babe Parilli?  
Babe Pinelli. Babe Parilli was the old QB. By today's standards, Pinelli's strike zone was outrageous. I think all the umps called the top of the shoulders down to the knees a strike. Probably had a lot to do with the shortness of the games back then. The umps were saying "You better swing" (unless your name is Ted Williams) and the pitchers didn't have to do all that "nibbling" at the corners that they do today.!

 10 
 on: January 13, 2020, 09:05:20 AM 
Started by JoeC - Last post by JoeC
Joe--Tower  was on noth side Sunset--on the curve going into West Hollywood.Not sure where  Spagos was.

Every where --the  circus.
Yeah, Tower was on the northwest corner of Sunset and Horn. Spago was on the northeast corner, iirc.

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