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Author Topic: Baseball Threaad (especially from the time of our youth)  (Read 66792 times)
bklynmike101
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« Reply #420 on: December 14, 2017, 07:58:21 PM »

I'd like to contribute to this thread by deviating from the others by telling a baseball story that I consider a brain dead moment of my life. In the early fifties my next door neighbor was moving and he gave me a baseball scrapbook he was filling since sometimes in the thirties. He knew I was a young Yankee and Mickey Mantle fan and thought I would appreciate the book. I read the book many times until the mid 70:s. In it was approx 150 autographs of Yankees such as Joe DiMaggio, Charlie Keller, Phil Rizzuto, Red Ruffing etc and ticket stubs from he Lou Gehrig retirement game including his autograph. In the late 70,s I met a married couple that sold early doowop at flee markets and they offered me original release of the album, unsealed, "Rock, Rock, Rock" for the book. Not knowing or caring if my book was worth more than that, I took it. To this day I wonder if I was taken?HuhHuh

Ouch!
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JoeC
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« Reply #421 on: December 14, 2017, 07:59:15 PM »

Joe, I wouldn't get too down on yourself. Doctor commented for it to bring big bucks, it needed to be in good shape. My experience (and I've sold a boatload of sports memorabilia) is to get top value it needed to be in not just good, but excellent/mint shape. To be in that shape the guy who gave the scrapbook to you, and you, as owners, would've had to take extraordinary preservation steps.

Yellowed, dog-eared or faded pages, any small tears or rips, drop the value like a rock. It woulda also been rare not to find damage from silverfish on the pages of a book from the 30s (even in the mid-50s). The type of buyers of highly collectible stuff who are willing to pay top dollar basically want pristine material, pretty much looking like it did the day it was published.

I can't tell you the number of people with "old" memorabilia who think the value is x, are so badly disappointed when they learn it is y. I imagination it's the same in record collecting, Slim's search for Stormy Weather notwithstanding.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 08:02:50 PM by JoeC » Logged
Doowopjoe3
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« Reply #422 on: December 15, 2017, 09:15:52 AM »

Thanx Joe C, I feel a little less dumber today knowing the scrapbook was not in any pristine condition.
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JoeC
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« Reply #423 on: December 15, 2017, 11:42:07 AM »

Thanx Joe C, I feel a little less dumber today knowing the scrapbook was not in any pristine condition.

Good to hear.

Another thing you avoided that I'm finding out right now is that once MANY decades go by, the number of people with interest in old stuff really decreases dramatically. They literally die out!

Even a star of Mickey Mantle's caliber means a lot more to me than to a 30 year old who was born long after he retired. As much of a draw as a HoF athlete's memorabilia might be, its human nature to be more connected to those you actually grew up with, and saw play!
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #424 on: December 15, 2017, 12:32:58 PM »

Yet prices for memorabilia from the likes of Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson et al continue to spiral upwards. For example, Jackie's game-worn uniform from 1947 just auctioned at a bit over $2M.  A 1961 Fleer card of Jerry West (In "PSA 8" conditon) just went for something like $75K.

Condition, on the other hand, is of quintessential importance in value determination. A "mint" specimen easily goes for 10X (or much more) compared to an "excellent" specimen. However, there is still quite a market for items in far less than mint condition.  An "ordinary" but legitimate scorecard from Maris' 61st HR game, for example, hammers down a price of $1,000-1500, on average. Mantle's famed '52 rookie card goes for $20-50K in "good/very good" vs as much as $500K-800K in "mint". But it still "goes". And frequently.
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JoeC
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« Reply #425 on: December 15, 2017, 01:37:10 PM »

Don't disagree Mike.

Some memorabilia is timeless and retains, or even increases in, value. Only two points I'd make are: (1) there are very few pieces in true Mint or Excellent graded condition (why they are so valuable); and (2) when people quote a price, you still have to find a buyer willing to pay it. Sometimes that is easier said than done (to quote The Essex). 'Investors" only want the top quality stuff. The folks who will buy average or poor quality out of emotional connection to their youth are the ones becoming scarcer.

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Robb_K
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« Reply #426 on: December 15, 2017, 01:53:41 PM »

When we first moved to Chicago, my father worked as a truck driver for Olson Rug Co., to build up some extra money to help him buy a grocery store.  He picked up the old carpet rolls and padding from customers' house, and took them to the recycle centre.  My cousin and I used to accompany him on his route on Saturdays.  One day, we found an old (late 1920s or beginning of 1930s) New York Yankee's uniform rolled up in a roll of carpeting.  In another one, on another day, we found a set of bean-bag style coasters(?) or tiny pillows(?) with the images of Major League Baseball players and their names sewn into the fabric.  They were from the 1906 season.  The likenesses were not as realistic as photographs, but were extremely detailed and looked as much like the real players as the photgraph-based paintings of players on the painted picture baseball cards from the late 1940s.  There were 100 in that series (Best 100 ML players of the day) (Ty Cobb,Hans Wagner, Chief Bender, Jesse Burkett, Willie Keeler, Frank Chance, John McGraw (manager), were all there).  We took them home.  But they had already been in wet conditions, and  mold developed on them, and they omitted a foul odour, eventually.  So, we had to throw them away.  What a shame.  They were a fantastic set to have if one was a big fan of old-time baseball.

Have any of you baseball fans heard of that set?  I'm curious as to their use.  They were too rounded like little pillows, to be drink coasters.  But, they were too small to be pillows for people.  They could have been pillows for hamsters, or Chihuahuas, I suppose.   Grin
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #427 on: December 15, 2017, 10:16:52 PM »

Joe  C  is rite- excellent -but I gave my price w/caveat--good  shape.  

That pristine   PHOTO  of Jackie &  Rachel  next to  the  ROY  car  from about  47-48--?--just  sold for for  $$2.5.  Sick-- but only takes 2 who want it.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #428 on: December 16, 2017, 02:32:35 PM »

Don't disagree Mike.

Some memorabilia is timeless and retains, or even increases in, value. Only two points I'd make are: (1) there are very few pieces in true Mint or Excellent graded condition (why they are so valuable); and (2) when people quote a price, you still have to find a buyer willing to pay it. Sometimes that is easier said than done (to quote The Essex). 'Investors" only want the top quality stuff. The folks who will buy average or poor quality out of emotional connection to their youth are the ones becoming scarcer.



Joe,

I guess that means I'm becoming scarcer. Sad but true. I've always (foolishly) preferred my Valmy Thomas and Bob Oldis cards over my Mantle & Mays cards.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #429 on: December 16, 2017, 05:42:01 PM »

Don't disagree Mike.

Some memorabilia is timeless and retains, or even increases in, value. Only two points I'd make are: (1) there are very few pieces in true Mint or Excellent graded condition (why they are so valuable); and (2) when people quote a price, you still have to find a buyer willing to pay it. Sometimes that is easier said than done (to quote The Essex). 'Investors" only want the top quality stuff. The folks who will buy average or poor quality out of emotional connection to their youth are the ones becoming scarcer.



Joe,

I guess that means I'm becoming scarcer. Sad but true. I've always (foolishly) preferred my Valmy Thomas and Bob Oldis cards over my Mantle & Mays cards.

Yes, sadly, after our generation dies off, only a few handsful of history buffs will be bidding on our records and Baseball memorobelia. 
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JoeC
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« Reply #430 on: December 16, 2017, 06:44:58 PM »

Don't disagree Mike.

Some memorabilia is timeless and retains, or even increases in, value. Only two points I'd make are: (1) there are very few pieces in true Mint or Excellent graded condition (why they are so valuable); and (2) when people quote a price, you still have to find a buyer willing to pay it. Sometimes that is easier said than done (to quote The Essex). 'Investors" only want the top quality stuff. The folks who will buy average or poor quality out of emotional connection to their youth are the ones becoming scarcer.



Joe,

I guess that means I'm becoming scarcer. Sad but true. I've always (foolishly) preferred my Valmy Thomas and Bob Oldis cards over my Mantle & Mays cards.

I'm with you, Mike. I loved baseball in the glory days of the 50s with only 16 teams, no free agency and a World Series that was over by mid-October. Also, a time when contact hitting (le.g., Nellie Fox) was appreciated. Can't stand all the K's today, especially from non-power hitters.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #431 on: December 16, 2017, 07:36:47 PM »

Some memorabilia is timeless and even increases in, value. Only 2 points I'd make are: (1) there are very few pieces in true Mint or Excellent graded condition (why they are so valuable); and (2) when people quote a price, you still have to find a buyer willing to pay it. Sometimes that is easier said than done (to quote The Essex). 'Investors" only want the top quality stuff. The folks who will buy average or poor quality out of emotional connection to their youth are the ones becoming scarcer.

Joe,
I guess that means I'm becoming scarcer. Sad but true. I've always (foolishly) preferred my Valmy Thomas and Bob Oldis cards over my Mantle & Mays cards.
I'm with you, Mike. I loved baseball in the glory days of the 50s with only 16 teams, no free agency and a World Series that was over by mid-October. Also, a time when contact hitting (le.g., Nellie Fox) was appreciated. Can't stand all the K's today, especially from non-power hitters.
I agree.  I hate all the strikeouts and swinging for the fences.  I, too, like contact hitting and lusty batting averages.  I remember when Ted Williams hit .388.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #432 on: December 16, 2017, 10:20:27 PM »

Wen  did  u last  see a squeeze  play,   or better yet  steal  of home?

PItching with 2 days rest  as Koufax  did  in 65, and Gibson in 67-68?
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JoeC
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« Reply #433 on: December 17, 2017, 09:21:10 AM »

Squeeze play??? I'd settle these days for players (not just talking NL pitchers) being able to get a sacrifice bunt down. A lost art.

Back in the mid-50s when I was fortunate enough to see many Yankees' home games, Mickey Mantle struck out a lot -- at least for that era. The Yankee Stadium crowd, despite his being the great player he was, used to get on him pretty good with boos. (Of course, they's love him again when he homered later in the game.) Nowadays, the big stars no longer hear many boos for striking out. It's accepted in a game when a team may strikeout 10 or 12 times. If you're a pitcher now, and don't average at least a strikeout per inning pitched, you're a junk baller.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #434 on: December 17, 2017, 10:42:43 AM »

Agree with all 'youse' guys. The magic number for a "heavy hitter" with high strikeouts was 100k's/season in the days of Mantle/Colavito/Killebrew et al. Now, most every full-time player whiffs 100+ times/season. Worse still, after the strikeout, they calmly go back tot he bench as though it's all just routine. It's one thing if a guy hitting 30-40 HRs and batting .275 (or more) whiffs 100 times. But it's absurd when a guy with 10 HRs batting .235 strikes our 125-150 times as though it was nothing. Locally, Luis Valbuena and (last year) Danny Espinosa come to mind. And in bunt situations, move the runner over situations, etc., they still go for the fences (with meager results).

Nellie Fox was a scrapper. Very few around these days (if any) 
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #435 on: December 17, 2017, 12:02:33 PM »

A typical Judge game--HR,  BB, &  K. Grin Grin Grin Grin

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JoeC
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« Reply #436 on: December 17, 2017, 06:01:45 PM »

Fox, choking way up on that heavy bat of his, stuck out a little more than 200 times in over 10,500 plate appearances. If one of the NYY aces of the 1950s pitched a 3 or 4 hitter against the ChiSox, you also didn't need to look at the box score to know that Fox had two of the hits.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #437 on: December 17, 2017, 10:01:07 PM »

Fox, choking way up on that heavy bat of his, stuck out a little more than 200 times in over 10,500 plate appearances. If one of the NYY aces of the 1950s pitched a 3 or 4 hitter against the ChiSox, you also didn't need to look at the box score to know that Fox had two of the hits.

I'll bet you all didn't know that Fox was discovered by Connie Mack's  crew, and first played for the Philadelphia Athletics, before The White Sox.  In 1949,The A's traded Fox to Chicago straight up, for catcher, Joe Tipton.  Unbelievably, no cash was involved.  It wasn't like Mack's sell-off of decent players to raise operating cash.  The A's were relatively competitive from 1947-49, and even had been a pennant contender in 1948. It was a trade they'd regret.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #438 on: December 17, 2017, 11:41:32 PM »

Baseball is stat crazy--but  can anyone  compare  with  JoeD's 379  HRs  career &  369  K's.(I think the numbers  are right)   Just incredible. 

BTW  Joe--LA is up to something big.  That crazy salary  dump to  Atl  &  I guarantee u  Darvish is gone.  Has there ever been  a bigger choke in WS?   Now some are claiming he was tipping his pitches.


See the  medical  leak that  Ohtani  has torn elbow ligament?
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JoeC
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« Reply #439 on: December 18, 2017, 09:25:04 AM »

Baseball is stat crazy--but  can anyone  compare  with  JoeD's 379  HRs  career &  369  K's.(I think the numbers  are right)   Just incredible. 

BTW  Joe--LA is up to something big.  That crazy salary  dump to  Atl  &  I guarantee u  Darvish is gone.  Has there ever been  a bigger choke in WS?   Now some are claiming he was tipping his pitches.


See the  medical  leak that  Ohtani  has torn elbow ligament?

Amazing record by Joe D. He must've had supernatural eye-hand coordination.

On Darvish, I read that "tipping" article. Supposedly, about how he held the ball just before hiding it in his glove. If  he rotated it in his hand, it was one pitch; if he didn't, another.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #440 on: December 18, 2017, 10:36:13 PM »

Just an excuse---Bet u my ball autographed by Babe, McGwire  &  Bonds  that  he leaves.. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

I  dont have the ball  but thats how  sure I am.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #441 on: December 18, 2017, 10:53:39 PM »

Baseball is stat crazy--but  can anyone  compare  with  JoeD's 379  HRs  career &  369  K's.(I think the numbers  are right)   Just incredible. 

BTW  Joe--LA is up to something big.  That crazy salary  dump to  Atl  &  I guarantee u  Darvish is gone.  Has there ever been  a bigger choke in WS?   Now some are claiming he was tipping his pitches.


See the  medical  leak that  Ohtani  has torn elbow ligament?

Amazing record by Joe D. He must've had supernatural eye-hand coordination.


On Darvish, I read that "tipping" article. Supposedly, about how he held the ball just before hiding it in his glove. If  he rotated it in his hand, it was one pitch; if he didn't, another.

I saw Dimaggio play during his last season (Mickey's first).  He had great coordination, and also a very good eye at the plate, and a fast swing.  But no one's eyes were as good as "The Splendid Splinter".  Amazing that a lot of this thread is completely foreign to me, as I stopped following baseball closely in 1967, and altogether after 1969, other than Hank Aaron's run at Ruth's 714.  So, I'm useless when discussing just about anything in baseball from the past 50 years.  I'm good with 1876-1966, and, especially 1893-1960.   Cheesy
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doowopbob
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« Reply #442 on: December 19, 2017, 02:44:45 AM »

Dodgers choked big time against 1966 Orioles.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #443 on: December 19, 2017, 03:37:10 AM »

Dodgers choked big time against 1966 Orioles.
I enjoyed that.  I grew up hating The Brooklyn Dodgers because I was a Cub fan.  So, naturally, I hated them after they moved to L.A.
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JoeC
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« Reply #444 on: December 19, 2017, 09:29:02 AM »

Dodgers choked big time against 1966 Orioles.

That sweep may have only been surpassed in terms of surprising people by the 1954 NY Giants sweep of that great Indians team.
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JoeC
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« Reply #445 on: December 19, 2017, 09:33:36 AM »

Baseball is stat crazy--but  can anyone  compare  with  JoeD's 379  HRs  career &  369  K's.(I think the numbers  are right)   Just incredible.  

BTW  Joe--LA is up to something big.  That crazy salary  dump to  Atl  &  I guarantee u  Darvish is gone.  Has there ever been  a bigger choke in WS?   Now some are claiming he was tipping his pitches.


See the  medical  leak that  Ohtani  has torn elbow ligament?

Amazing record by Joe D. He must've had supernatural eye-hand coordination.


On Darvish, I read that "tipping" article. Supposedly, about how he held the ball just before hiding it in his glove. If  he rotated it in his hand, it was one pitch; if he didn't, another.

I saw Dimaggio play during his last season (Mickey's first).  He had great coordination, and also a very good eye at the plate, and a fast swing.  But no one's eyes were as good as "The Splendid Splinter".  Amazing that a lot of this thread is completely foreign to me, as I stopped following baseball closely in 1967, and altogether after 1969, other than Hank Aaron's run at Ruth's 714.  So, I'm useless when discussing just about anything in baseball from the past 50 years.  I'm good with 1876-1966, and, especially 1893-1960.   Cheesy

I'm most comfortable myself with the seasons and players from 1949-1961. Was 6-18 yrs old during that time frame. Once I went off to college and followed that with a job, the focus was not nearly as sharp.

Envious you got to see Joe D play; even at the end for him.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #446 on: December 19, 2017, 12:01:57 PM »

I saw Joe D hit one off the wall in an old timers game in the early '60's. Does that count?  Grin

OK, I'll go back to studying my Luis Arroyo baseball cards now. Undecided
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #447 on: December 19, 2017, 12:24:16 PM »

Loved his lick  wen  Gionfriddo  made  that catch.
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doowopbob
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« Reply #448 on: December 19, 2017, 04:07:41 PM »

Luis Arroyo, a forgotten relief pitcher from the old days.
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JoeC
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« Reply #449 on: December 19, 2017, 05:30:55 PM »

Luis Arroyo, a forgotten relief pitcher from the old days.

I recall Arroyo when he came up in the mid 50s to the Cardinals to join their starting rotation with Harvey Haddix, Larry Jackson and a couple other long-forgotten guys. He was pushing 30 years old then, as a rookie. Short and stocky little lefty. First Puerto Rican to wear the pinstripes. BTW, he lived to 100.
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