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doctordoowop
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« Reply #270 on: July 20, 2017, 05:34:16 PM »

Robb-has all answers  as usual.  How much bigger is  international rink?   10  ft wider,20  longer?
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Robb_K
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« Reply #271 on: July 21, 2017, 02:31:49 AM »

Robb-has all answers  as usual.  How much bigger is  international rink?   10  ft wider,20  longer?

The NHL rink specified size is 200 feet by 85 feet.  The Olympic rinks are 15 feet wider. So they are 200 feet by 100 feet.  That larger width makes for a much greater use of the east-west game, cycling and passing the puck sideways to get openings in the slot, while the thin North American rinks are better for the straight ahead north-south game, taking the puck straight up the ice towards the goal, and driving to draw defencemen out, and create openings.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #272 on: July 21, 2017, 06:10:46 AM »

I much prefer the NHL north-south flow to the international east-west passing/cycling game, which slows the game down akin to a US college basketball "stall" game.  That's why so many Euro players, who don't like the physical game and are used to being open most of the time to have lots of time to make perfect tape-to-tape passes flourish in that game, but can't make it in the much faster-paced and harder hitting NHL game, in which there is little time and space to initiate an offensive play.  Reactions must occur instantly, and plays made with a hit being made on the instigator as he attempts to shoot or pass, or start a drive to the net.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 03:05:31 PM by Robb_K » Logged

JoeC
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« Reply #273 on: July 21, 2017, 07:54:33 AM »

Robb, If you're interested, take a look at the article on issues relating to Offsides in the June 2017 issue of Hockey News. I'd link it if I could but am sure a Google search would turn it up. It's long but think you might enjoy it. Puts forth info FAR more eloquently than I ever could.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #274 on: July 21, 2017, 10:12:50 AM »

Robb, If you're interested, take a look at the article on issues relating to Offsides in the June 2017 issue of Hockey News. I'd link it if I could but am sure a Google search would turn it up. It's long but think you might enjoy it. Puts forth info FAR more eloquently than I ever could.

Yes, I've read it.  We at Hockey's Future have gone over all the issues many times.
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JoeC
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« Reply #275 on: July 21, 2017, 12:57:27 PM »

Robb, different subject. Be interested in hearing your thoughts on net anchoring systems. I pretty much understand today's system, and all the problems with the magnetized net anchoring system that came before it.

How were nets anchored when Mark Howe suffered that horrific injury? Was it the same way they had been anchored forever, i.e., going back to the 50s, 60s and before?
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Robb_K
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« Reply #276 on: July 22, 2017, 02:35:24 AM »

Robb, different subject. Be interested in hearing your thoughts on net anchoring systems. I pretty much understand today's system, and all the problems with the magnetized net anchoring system that came before it.

How were nets anchored when Mark Howe suffered that horrific injury? Was it the same way they had been anchored forever, i.e., going back to the 50s, 60s and before?

NHL and all pro leagues in North America currently use The Marsh Peg System, which has extremely flexible, but strong plastic pegs (placed in holes) that hold the net in place.  When it is bumped lightly, it wobbles, but pops right back into position.  When it is slammed into by a sliding body or flying body, making contact at high speed, the pegs jump out of the holes, and the entire net moves in the direction away from the direction of impact.  This system has been used for the past 15+ years.  Before that, the net pole pegs were much more rigid, and didn't jump out as often, and the net poles didn't wobble (give) as much, so the poles were more stationary after impact, and so the impacts of human bodies against them were much harder.  That is why Mark Howe's career was shortened, along with many others.  

Back in the '50s and before, nets' poles were set in the holes, and didn't move much, at all, when hit.  So, crashing into them with a body part, usually resulted in serious injury.  In 1961, In a Bantam game, I was hit hard and slid headfirst into the post at full speed, and lost consciousness for some seconds.  I was helped off, but only missed a couple shifts.  I went back in without all the "cobwebs" cleared.  At that time, we wore no helmets, and there was no "concussion protocol".  Helmets became mandatory for all youth hockey in Canada in fall 1964 (my last year in Juniors).  I was very lucky to have no permanent damage from that 1961 event.  Or DID I?  I'm pretty flaky and forgetful.  But my forgetfulness started at 50, rather than at age 15 (when the accident occurred).  Cheesy
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 04:18:55 AM by Robb_K » Logged

JoeC
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« Reply #277 on: July 22, 2017, 07:36:38 AM »

Robb, thanks. Knew you'd had personal experience. Out of all the hazards (nets, sticks, fists, hard checks, etc), think skate blades are the most hazardous.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #278 on: July 22, 2017, 10:43:12 AM »

Robb, thanks. Knew you'd had personal experience. Out of all the hazards (nets, sticks, fists, hard checks, etc), think skate blades are the most hazardous.

Yes, absolutely!  Some players have almost lost their lives from bleeding to death before medical aid could arrive, by having an artery severed.  Luckily, I was never cut.  I only lost 2 teeth, had 8 shoulder dislocations ( 4 on each arm), and stretched ligaments and torn cartilage in my right knee, and the mild concussion from the head/pole collision, plus lots of hard hits to the body by big players at full speed and getting knocked to the ice or into the boards.  Knowing what the life expectancy of hockey skaters (non goalies) was at the beginning of the 1960s, and the relatively short career and relatively low NHL pay at that time, my Jewish parents would have had a caniption had I elected to NOT move with them to Chicago during my first Junior A season, but to remain in Winnipeg, living with my uncle and aunt, and decided to pursue a hockey career, rather than attending university and pursuing a higher post graduate degree (I ended up with 3 masters degrees, and became a scientist and economist for The UN) rather than getting a hockey scholarship to a school who didn't offer the course I would want, and not making The NHL anyway, and starving while languishing in the minors, or failing to make a pro career, and wasting 5-7 years, and being a cripple by middle age.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #279 on: July 22, 2017, 04:28:54 PM »

Who was the goalie  who almost bled to  death on the ice  a few yrs ago--after  neck was cut by a skate, I believe.

Forget who Ted Green  almost killed--hitting him over the head with his stick. 70s?
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Robb_K
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« Reply #280 on: July 22, 2017, 06:33:40 PM »

Who was the goalie  who almost bled to  death on the ice  a few yrs ago--after  neck was cut by a skate, I believe.

Forget who Ted Green  almost killed--hitting him over the head with his stick. 70s?

it was St. Louis' Wayne Maki who almost killed Boston's Ted Green by hitting him in the head with his stick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXoO2QkIlH8
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 06:36:17 PM by Robb_K » Logged

JoeC
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« Reply #281 on: July 22, 2017, 07:12:04 PM »

Clint Malarchuk's jugular vein and carotid artery were cut by a skate blade. When he was playing in goal with the Sabres.

Fans in the arena literally fainted, out cold from the sight of all the blood. Two fans had heart attacks in the stands. Mike Robitaille, the Buffalo radio/TV announcer, couldn't continue.

300 stitches. Back on the ice in 10 days. Who says hockey players aren't tough!
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Robb_K
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« Reply #282 on: July 23, 2017, 02:59:15 AM »

Clint Malarchuk's jugular vein and carotid artery were cut by a skate blade. When he was playing in goal with the Sabres.

Fans in the arena literally fainted, out cold from the sight of all the blood. Two fans had heart attacks in the stands. Mike Robitaille, the Buffalo radio/TV announcer, couldn't continue.

300 stitches. Back on the ice in 10 days. Who says hockey players aren't tough!
Ha! Ha! Yes!  Our teeth fall all over the ice like chicklets.  Good thing we have dental implants.  Otherwise I'd look like the only Jewish Hillbilly!  My coach was pissed when I had to miss a shift after my (probable) concussion from being knocked into the goalpost headfirst at full speed!  Shocked
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JoeC
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« Reply #283 on: July 23, 2017, 07:47:55 AM »

Oh, btw, Malarchuk skated off the ice (with the trainer stemming the spurting blood), on his own. He admitted later he thought he was gonna die (a reasonable assumption), but knew his mother was watching TV and he didn't want her to see him die on the ice.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #284 on: July 23, 2017, 08:34:03 AM »

Oh, btw, Malarchuk skated off the ice (with the trainer stemming the spurting blood), on his own. He admitted later he thought he was gonna die (a reasonable assumption), but knew his mother was watching TV and he didn't want her to see him die on the ice.

Yes.  I remember seeing the film clip of that.  It was a televised game, so the clip was shown.  It was gruesome.  I've been in lots of pileups where skates were flying by.  Just luck to never get cut.  A lot of us could have died at 16, 20, 35, 40 and 65.  Just the luck of the draw.  I've also skied all alone in the mountain back country in western Canada and Western USA, without filing an itinerary with the respective Forest service, and could have died easily by exposure, body heat loss or starvation, simply by breaking or spraining an ankle.  but, somehow, I've managed to survive into my 70s.  Of course, I haven't done any back-country skiing or hockey playing in more than 15 years.  I do miss both.  But, I don't have anyone with whom to go on such ski trips anymore, and I'd be much more susceptible to injury.  And, the recreational hockey leagues aren't usually for 60s and above.  The oldies are usually 40 and above, and always have one or two Gung Ho macho men, who think they are still 20, and want to play NHL style, knocking opponents into the boards.  So, THAT'S completely out.
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JoeC
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« Reply #285 on: July 23, 2017, 09:48:38 AM »

Malarchuk: another one of those Ukrainian surnames. The "chuk" ending seems particularly indigenous to Canada. Don't hear that name ending nearly as often in the USA. In this case, Clint was an Edmonton-raised kid.

Always feel for the guy who "causes" the serious injury too. I imagine careers have been set back on that account too. Even though accidental, it's gotta shake you up.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #286 on: July 23, 2017, 01:27:05 PM »

Thanx  guys.   Couldn't happen today  with  the  goalie  "monster mask. "  [Steve  Yeager  of Dodgers   waiting  in on deck circle almost killed by  a broken  bat.  After that he  asked for/  designed the  now universal  "neck protector."

Sorry  I reversed Green and  Maki.  But Green was a  dirty  SOB, no?  Maki had probably  taken enough from Green.

Believe  Chico  was  Wayne's brother.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #287 on: July 23, 2017, 01:39:47 PM »

Thanx  guys.   Couldn't happen today  with  the  goalie  "monster mask. "  [Steve  Yeager  of Dodgers   waiting  in on deck circle almost killed by  a broken  bat.  After that he  asked for/  designed the  now universal  "neck protector."

Sorry  I reversed Green and  Maki.  But Green was a  dirty  SOB, no?  Maki had probably  taken enough from Green.

Believe  Chico  was  Wayne's brother.
Yes, Chico was Wayne's older brother.  Both came up through The Black Hawks' chain.  Wayne was traded to St. Louis.  Ted Green was one of the dirtiest NHLers, ever.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #288 on: July 23, 2017, 04:26:08 PM »

Hate  to say it, but  Green probably  deserved  it.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #289 on: July 23, 2017, 04:59:33 PM »

Hate  to say it, but  Green probably  deserved  it.
No one "deserves" to get brain damage from being clobbered in the head with a hockey stick.  But you could make a case that Green shouldn't have been surprised that someone would do that to him some day.  I guess you've seen Green playing for The Bruins, then, eh?  Not for the squeamish.   
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JoeC
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« Reply #290 on: July 23, 2017, 06:44:51 PM »

In the late 1950s, there were only a handful of players of any note over 200 pounds. Most were stars/superstars -- so there seems to be correlation there. Namely, John Bucyk (the biggest at 215 lbs), Gordie Howe, Frank Mahovlich, Jean Beliveau, Moose Vasko and Dollard St. Laurent.

Average size back then was 5'11, 177.  Nowadays, 6'1, 201.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #291 on: July 24, 2017, 09:46:51 AM »

In the late 1950s, there were only a handful of players of any note over 200 pounds. Most were stars/superstars -- so there seems to be correlation there. Namely, John Bucyk (the biggest at 215 lbs), Gordie Howe, Frank Mahovlich, Jean Beliveau, Moose Vasko and Dollard St. Laurent.

Average size back then was 5'11, 177.  Nowadays, 6'1, 201.
No doubt that some of the largest, heaviest players dominated using their size.  But, they could only do that if they were also fast and smooth skaters.  Moose Vasko was big and tough.  But, the fast-skating midgets could skate around him.  Same for Dolly St. Laurent.  Lots of large defencemen were only effective if the opposing forwards were too near to them.  There was a lot of grabbing and using body leverage to impede offensive players.  The combination of size, strength, skill and skating prowess made the whole package.  We didn't have the modern weight training and resistance machines they have today.  Farm boys like Gordie Howe were strong because of lifting bales of hay and bags of potatoes and grain, and large metal milk containers in the off season (and we used free weights).  I was always tall and skinny.  I was 6ft 1.5 in, and ate as much as possible, and lifted weights as much as possible, and could only finally get up to about 177 lb at my pick, in first year of Junior A (at 16 and 17).  I had a hard time playing against 6ft 2 190lb checking forwards and 6 ft 4 in 200 lb defencemen, who were 19 or even 20 (overagers).  There were a lot of small, fast and agile skaters, with high skill levels.  I loved to watch the super-skilled stickhandlers take the puck all the way up ice, skating around 5 opponents and deking the goalie for a score.  That doesn't happen anymore.  A player trying such selfish moves would fail every time and be cut quickly.
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JoeC
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« Reply #292 on: July 24, 2017, 10:58:48 AM »

I liked watching the smaller guys do their thing. Guys like Camille Henry, Red Sullivan, Ted Lindsay, Stan Mikita, Kenny Wharram, Boom Boom Geoffrion, Henri Richard, and Dick Duff on through later guys like Yvan Cournoyer, Dennis Polonich, Gregg Sheppard, and Dave Keon.

Still many short players in the NHL but the difference is they all pack a lot more weight these days than the small guys of earlier times. By 1980, the training and weights had changed the landscape for players.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #293 on: July 25, 2017, 08:23:11 AM »

I liked watching the smaller guys do their thing. Guys like Camille Henry, Red Sullivan, Ted Lindsay, Stan Mikita, Kenny Wharram, Boom Boom Geoffrion, Henri Richard, and Dick Duff on through later guys like Yvan Cournoyer, Dennis Polonich, Gregg Sheppard, and Dave Keon.

Still many short players in the NHL but the difference is they all pack a lot more weight these days than the small guys of earlier times. By 1980, the training and weights had changed the landscape for players.

Yes, many of the small players (like Martin St. Louis, Robby Fabbri, Sam Gagner, et al) don't depend only on speed and skill anymore, but are also super strong for their size, and play a chippy hitting game like Stan Mikita did, and go to the tough areas and initiate contact, and bounce off checks like cannonballs.  It's really difficult to play down low and stay on the puck, and hold one's own in puck battles these days, unless one is very strong and fearless.  Unfortunately, smaller players playing that type of game can lead to more injuries than in the past.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #294 on: July 25, 2017, 10:35:04 PM »

Wasn't  Beliveau--remember 1st NHL er  to  be on SI cover,  about  6:3-4?
  Loved his smooth style  of  and clean  play.  As I've  said before  a consummate gentleman --and most intelligent hockey player i've  ever heard.
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JoeC
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« Reply #295 on: July 26, 2017, 08:41:55 AM »

Wasn't  Beliveau--remember 1st NHL er  to  be on SI cover,  about  6:3-4?
  Loved his smooth style  of  and clean  play.  As I've  said before  a consummate gentleman --and most intelligent hockey player i've  ever heard.


"Le Gros Bill" (Big Bill) was listed as 6'3, 205. Nickname came from a French Canadian folk song (Here Comes Big Bill).

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Robb_K
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« Reply #296 on: July 26, 2017, 09:58:20 AM »

Wasn't  Beliveau--remember 1st NHL er  to  be on SI cover,  about  6:3-4?
  Loved his smooth style  of  and clean  play.  As I've  said before  a consummate gentleman --and most intelligent hockey player i've  ever heard.


I remember him being very tall.  I always thought he was 6:04, as he seemed taller than the 6:03 guys.  Maybe he just looked taller because he stood straighter, because he was "a stand up guy"?   Grin   Maybe that saying (like so many others) came from a truism, that honest and courageous people stand up straighter than dishonest people and those trying to hide something?  It stands to reason.  Body language is very influential in humans' lives, as it is with other animals.  And it has been proven that humans and the other great apes share many body language gestures.
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JoeC
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« Reply #297 on: July 26, 2017, 12:02:30 PM »

They used to refer to his skating style as "elegant" -- probably had a lot to do with his standup posture and height.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #298 on: July 26, 2017, 08:14:19 PM »

dont  correct me  Robb-  Jean  won 10 Cups?

I truly believe  he could  have been  PM    or  whoever is #1  in Canada. 
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Robb_K
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« Reply #299 on: July 27, 2017, 03:03:44 AM »

dont  correct me  Robb-  Jean  won 10 Cups?

I truly believe  he could  have been  PM    or  whoever is #1  in Canada. 

He certainly was the most charismatic and well-spoken sports star to come out of Quebec.  He could easily have become PM of Quebec (given that Ronald Reagan, Donald Trump, Arnold Schwartzeneger, Jack Kemp and jesse Ventura could hold high government office). Beliveau would have been better than most of those guys.
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