Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)

[doctordoowop]

Watched  Yanks.  Judge  had  8 ks  in double header.  But that Glyber Torres  who  Cashman stole from Cubs is great.

Judge  has  like  a Gordie  Howe game--BB, HR  & 2Ks.

An aside --Cavs lose in 5. &  James  to LA.  Great  ind stats,  but  crazy chasing ringsis very bad  for legacy.  W est,Magic, Bird,  MJ  etc  sayed  with losers  untilthey won.   

[Robb_K]

Caps won 6-2.  Ovechkin is one win away from finally winning The Cup.  l'll be glad to see T.J. Oshie (an Ojibway) win it all.  But a lot more glad that VGK won't win (if that happens).

[JoeC]

Caps won 6-2.  Ovechkin is one win away from finally winning The Cup.  l'll be glad to see T.J. Oshie (an Ojibway) win it all.  But a lot more glad that VGK won't win (if that happens).

I'm nervously celebrating. If any team is likely to lose three in a row (two would be at Vegas), it's the Caps.

How many posts did VGK hit tonight, three?? Plus, Holtby still gives up far too many rebounds. What got him replaced by Grubauer in the regular season.  On the plus side, Caps have gotta be in Fleury's head. For years in Pittsburgh, he stonewalled the Caps. Different story now --- 16 goals in 4 games. Vegas defense seems to panic a bit when they get behind.

Love Oshie and Wilson. Especially TJ. The kind of players the Caps lacked in the past. BTW, Oshie and Niskanen rode the public Metro to Game 3 and created a mob scene. No limos for them. Truly "men of the people." Two Minnesotans. Lotta good players (like TJ, the Christians, etc) from Warroad.

[bklynmike101]

LA Times reports Oshie needed to 'borrow" 35 cents to exit the metro 

[bklynmike101]

The Blues were much better than all the other expansion teams, and behaved much more like "The Original 6" than like the other expansion teams. They had superior goaltending from GlennHall(still in his prime-at least their first 2 years). They had an excellent defence, better than at least 3 of "The Original 6", with Doug Harvey, Al Arbour, Barclay and Bob Plager, Noel Picard, and Jean-Guy Talbot. They had better offence than all the other expansion teams, with legitimate stars in Dickie Moore and Red Berenson, and decent support in goal-scorer, Gary Sabourin, set-up man, Frank St. Marseille, and support from Don McKenney, Gerry Melnyk and Jimmy Roberts. They dominated Detroit and Toronto, and were able to play respectably vs. The other 4 Original teams. They looked respectable against The Habs in The Finals, despite losing all 4 games (technically being "swept".  But they played very well in all 4 games, and were in them all till the end, losing all by only 1 goal, and taking 2 of the 4 to OT.  The Blues' bruising defence and Hall's phenomenal goaltending stifled The Habs' superior offence. The Blues got even better, adding Jacques Plante, Phil Goyette and Ab McDonald in Year 2.  They got NO help from the junior draft in Year1. Vegas got 3 1st Rounders, plus were able to get Fleury and several good skaters in The Expansion draft, because only 1 goalie, 3 defensemen and 4 forwards could be protected. 1967 Expansion left few players of ANY value exposed.

Robb, I remember that particular Blues team well. For reasons unknown, I've always been partial to "old" players in all sports. Those original Blues consisted of many NHL "oldie castoffs", even a few dredged back up from the AHL. Plante-Hall-Harvey-Arbour-Picard-Talbot, and of course Dickie Moore are some of the examples I can recall. A bunch of upstart pensioners winning the "expansion" division.

[JoeC]

Mike, you musta loved the early 70s Redskins when George Allen brought in all his old LA Rams players (like Myron Pottios, Jack Pardee, Maxie Baughan, Diron Talbert, etc)  -- all of whom were in their 30s, several mid to late 30s. But ... he turned a very bad organization around quickly! The "Over The Hill Gang."

The St. Louis Blues did it right, from the get-go and were rewarded. When the Caps and Kansas City Scouts joined the NHL 5 or so years later, the Scouts took older guys, the Caps all youth. Didn't work out for either new franchise. They were both dreadful, for years

Trivia question: Where did the Scouts relocate to? I don't know the answer as I type the question.

[Robb_K]

Mike, you musta loved the early 70s Redskins when George Allen brought in all his old LA Rams players (like Myron Pottios, Jack Pardee, Maxie Baughan, Diron Talbert, etc)  -- all of whom were in their 30s, several mid to late 30s. But ... he turned a very bad organization around quickly! The "Over The Hill Gang."

The St. Louis Blues did it right, from the get-go and were rewarded. When the Caps and Kansas City Scouts joined the NHL 5 or so years later, the Scouts took older guys, the Caps all youth. Didn't work out for either new franchise. They were both dreadful, for years

Trivia question: Where did the Scouts relocate to? I don't know the answer as I type the question.

They became The New Jersey Devils.

[JoeC]

Mike, you musta loved the early 70s Redskins when George Allen brought in all his old LA Rams players (like Myron Pottios, Jack Pardee, Maxie Baughan, Diron Talbert, etc)  -- all of whom were in their 30s, several mid to late 30s. But ... he turned a very bad organization around quickly! The "Over The Hill Gang."

The St. Louis Blues did it right, from the get-go and were rewarded. When the Caps and Kansas City Scouts joined the NHL 5 or so years later, the Scouts took older guys, the Caps all youth. Didn't work out for either new franchise. They were both dreadful, for years

Trivia question: Where did the Scouts relocate to? I don't know the answer as I type the question.

They became The New Jersey Devils.

How about that. I would've guessed the Colorado Avalanche or some West Coast franchise.

Do you recall the GM that was in charge of building the KC franchise? In the case of the Caps, it was long-time Bruin great Milt Schmidt, of Kraut Line fame. He chose 20 year old Greg Joly as the Caps #1 pick (the #1 pick in the entire 1974 draft). A total bust from the Regina Pats -- an offensive defenseman, whose offense in the NHL never materialized. Clue on the Scouts GM question: another HoF player. Seems like many GMs back in the day were HoFers. A lot more than today.

[Robb_K]

Mike, you musta loved the early 70s Redskins when George Allen brought in all his old LA Rams players (like Myron Pottios, Jack Pardee, Maxie Baughan, Diron Talbert, etc)  -- all of whom were in their 30s, several mid to late 30s. But ... he turned a very bad organization around quickly! The "Over The Hill Gang."

The St. Louis Blues did it right, from the get-go and were rewarded. When the Caps and Kansas City Scouts joined the NHL 5 or so years later, the Scouts took older guys, the Caps all youth. Didn't work out for either new franchise. They were both dreadful, for years

Trivia question: Where did the Scouts relocate to? I don't know the answer as I type the question.

They became The New Jersey Devils.

How about that. I would've guessed the Colorado Avalanche or some West Coast franchise.

Do you recall the GM that was in charge of building the KC franchise? In the case of the Caps, it was long-time Bruin great Milt Schmidt, of Kraut Line fame. He chose 20 year old Greg Joly as the Caps #1 pick (the #1 pick in the entire 1974 draft). A total bust from the Regina Pats -- an offensive defenseman, whose offense in the NHL never materialized. Clue on the Scouts GM question: another HoF player. Seems like many GMs back in the day were HoFers. A lot more than today.

The Scouts' first GM was Sid Abel, who, later became GM of The Blues.  Sorry, I forgot to mention that The Scouts moved to Colorado for a few years before moving to New Jersey.  The were called The Colorado Rockies.  So, you remembered correctly that they moved to Denver.  The Avalanche were relocated there from Quebec, when The Canadian Dollar was at its weakest, and Winnipeg also moved to Phoenix.  New Jets were relocated from Atlanta (Thrashers), who never got any followers.

[JoeC]

So, Robb, with Milt Schmidt and Sid Abel as the GMs of the expansion teams, you had the Kraut Line vs the Production Line. Both centered their respective lines, didn't they? I never saw either play as they both retired around the time I saw my first hockey at the old Madison Square Garden in the mid-50s.

When Milt was the Caps first GM, he was always wanting to talk about his beloved Bruins and the hard times he experienced growing up in Kitchener. Always had a big smile and was a good choice, not so much in evaluating or developing talent on the Caps, but in being sort of the "ambassador" that "introduced" the game to the people of Washington. Maybe why the Caps survived when the Scouts did not was that many in  in DC had come from places like NY, Boston, Chicago and Detroit.

[Robb_K]

So, Robb, with Milt Schmidt and Sid Abel as the GMs of the expansion teams, you had the Kraut Line vs the Production Line. Both centered their respective lines, didn't they? I never saw either play as they both retired around the time I saw my first hockey at the old Madison Square Garden in the mid-50s.

When Milt was the Caps first GM, he was always wanting to talk about his beloved Bruins and the hard times he experienced growing up in Kitchener. Always had a big smile and was a good choice, not so much in evaluating or developing talent on the Caps, but in being sort of the "ambassador" that "introduced" the game to the people of Washington. Maybe why the Caps survived when the Scouts did not was that many in  in DC had come from places like NY, Boston, Chicago and Detroit.

Yes, both played centre.  I saw them both play at the tail end of their careers.  Kansas City is just not (and will never be) a hockey town.  The people there are just not interested in that game.  It is a baseball and football town.  They've had a terrific arena there for several years now, but no serious efforts to get an NHL. team there.  They couldn't even support an AHL team.  They could have Wayne Gretzky be the owner and GM there, and not succeed.  Washington probably has enough people working in Federal jobs who originated in hockey country.

[JoeC]

So, Robb, with Milt Schmidt and Sid Abel as the GMs of the expansion teams, you had the Kraut Line vs the Production Line. Both centered their respective lines, didn't they? I never saw either play as they both retired around the time I saw my first hockey at the old Madison Square Garden in the mid-50s.

When Milt was the Caps first GM, he was always wanting to talk about his beloved Bruins and the hard times he experienced growing up in Kitchener. Always had a big smile and was a good choice, not so much in evaluating or developing talent on the Caps, but in being sort of the "ambassador" that "introduced" the game to the people of Washington. Maybe why the Caps survived when the Scouts did not was that many in  in DC had come from places like NY, Boston, Chicago and Detroit.

Yes, both played centre.  I saw them both play at the tail end of their careers.  Kansas City is just not (and will never be) a hockey town.  The people there are just not interested in that game.  It is a baseball and football town.  They've had a terrific arena there for several years now, but no serious efforts to get an NHL. team there.  They couldn't even support an AHL team.  They could have Wayne Gretzky be the owner and GM there, and not succeed.  Washington probably has enough people working in Federal jobs who originated in hockey country.

At least enough to help. In the first 20 years, the crowd - such as it was - always seemed to be 50-50. With the Flyers, it was often 80-20 Philly fans (short drive). Think the Caps even placed ads in the Philly papers advertising upcoming games. Flyers were at their peak back then and tix in Philly were hard to come by. Their money was green too.

[JoeC]

Well, looks like Vegas ran out of gas. Caps too big and physical for the GK.

I love how all the questions to the Caps players are about "What's different about THIS particular team (from the Caps teams who were eliminated in past seasons")? True answer is that several of those Caps teams from the past were better, maybe ALOT better talent-wise but ... the past opponents on the way to the Stanley Cup were FAR more formidable. 

[doctordoowop]

Robb--hockey  teams  move  around almost as much  as players.   

In  BB--Braves to   Milwaukee, Browns  to  Baltimore,  A's to Oakland,   Wash to  Minn.   (& Texas).   Very  little  compared to  hockey.  Am I missing  any?

Oh--Dodgers &  Giants!

[bklynmike101]

Montreal Expos to Washington Nationals. Boston-Milwaukee-Atlanta Braves. A's from Philly to KC to Oakland. Then there were the very early days......

My fav's - NBA - the saga of the Rochester Royals. They've been nearly  everywhere (and may not be done!)

[Robb_K]

Robb--hockey  teams  move  around almost as much  as players.   

In  BB--Braves to   Milwaukee, Browns  to  Baltimore,  A's to K.C. then Oakland,   Wash to  Minn.   (& Texas). Very  little  compared to  hockey.  Am I missing  any?

NHL-
Hamilton Bulldogs-Pittsburgh Pirates to Philadelphia Quakers
New York Americans to Brooklyn Americans
Ottawa Senators to St. Louis Eagles
Oakland Seals to Cleveland Barons (Barons folded into Minnesota North Stars - then to Dallas Stars
Atlanta Flames to Calgary
Winnipeg Jets to Phoenix Road Runners
Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg Jets
Kansas City Scouts to Colorado Rockies to New Jersey Devils
Hartford Whalers to Carolina Hurricanes
Quebec Nordiques to Colorado Avalanche

[JoeC]

Montreal Expos to Washington Nationals. Boston-Milwaukee-Atlanta Braves. A's from Philly to KC to Oakland. Then there were the very early days......

My fav's - NBA - the saga of the Rochester Royals. They've been nearly  everywhere (and may not be done!)

Hard to believe now that Rochester, Syracuse, and Fort Wayne had long-time NBA franchises. Three in NY State alone! And, until 1960, none further west than St. Louis. I recall the Royals arena sat like 4500 people at most and the lighting for televised games from there made it look like they were playing in a coal mine.

[Robb_K]

Montreal Expos to Washington Nationals. Boston-Milwaukee-Atlanta Braves. A's from Philly to KC to Oakland. Then there were the very early days......

My fav's - NBA - the saga of the Rochester Royals. They've been nearly  everywhere (and may not be done!)

Hard to believe now that Rochester, Syracuse, and Fort Wayne had long-time NBA franchises. Three in NY State alone! And, until 1960, none further west than St. Louis. I recall the Royals arena sat like 4500 people at most and the lighting for televised games from there made it look like they were playing in a coal mine.

The NBA was like a minor league sport until The 1960s.  Not many people were interested.   Basketball was a college sport.  The NHL was probably more popular in USA during The 1950s than The NBA, even though it only had 4 US based teams, to The NBA's 8. 

[doctordoowop]

thanx  Mike-forgot  Atlanta,  Oakland &   Montreal  to Wash.   My point was --- many much more recent hockey changes.   

Rochester, to Cincinnati,  to  2 home  cities as  the Kings at the same  time--KC-Omaha?.  Then to Sacramento.

Joe-remember when the circus   [and many more]  put the  Knicks  into  the 69th Regiment  Armory?

Robb--proof  of college BB bigger than pro--Jack Molinas  point shaving  in  the 50s.  Think  he did it again after he got out of prison.  There have been  a few more college betting scandals.

I knew  Molinas--fascinating  guy--murdered by Mafia in Hollywood  around 1980.  I'll  discuss  him  on another post

[JoeC]

I do recall the circus thing with the Knicks (and NY was a "hotbed" of interest compared to many of the other NBA cities of the time). The influx in the late 50s/early 60s of Wilt, Russell, Robertson, and Baylor really began to turn things around for the league. The "old" stars were great but not box office gold, guys like Cousy, Lovellette, Pettit, Sharman, Schayes, etc. To this day, I still far prefer college hoops to the NBA.

[bklynmike101]

Robb--hockey  teams  move  around almost as much  as players.   

In  BB--Braves to   Milwaukee, Browns  to  Baltimore,  A's to K.C. then Oakland,   Wash to  Minn.   (& Texas). Very  little  compared to  hockey.  Am I missing  any?

NHL-
Hamilton Bulldogs-Pittsburgh Pirates to Philadelphia Quakers
New York Americans to Brooklyn Americans
Ottawa Senators to St. Louis Eagles
Oakland Seals to Cleveland Barons (Barons folded into Minnesota North Stars - then to Dallas Stars
Atlanta Flames to Calgary
Winnipeg Jets to Phoenix Road Runners
Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg Jets
Kansas City Scouts to Colorado Rockies to New Jersey Devils
Hartford Whalers to Carolina Hurricanes
Quebec Nordiques to Colorado Avalanche

Phoenix ROADRUNNERS??? Might thou be biased against our local (LA) COYOTE population? 

[bklynmike101]

I do recall the circus thing with the Knicks (and NY was a "hotbed" of interest compared to many of the other NBA cities of the time). The influx in the late 50s/early 60s of Wilt, Russell, Robertson, and Baylor really began to turn things around for the league. The "old" stars were great but not box office gold, guys like Cousy, Lovellette, Pettit, Sharman, Schayes, etc. To this day, I still far prefer college hoops to the NBA.

And weekend events at the old MSG would consist of 1-2 H.S. prelim's followed by an NBA doubleheader! All for one single low admission price  of maybe $2.00 - early 60's.

[Robb_K]

Robb--hockey  teams  move  around almost as much  as players.   

NHL-
Winnipeg Jets to Phoenix Road Runners

Phoenix ROADRUNNERS??? Might thou be biased against our local (LA) COYOTE population? 

Sorry!     The Roadrunners were the old Western Hockey League team that played against The San Francisco Seals, Los Angeles Blades, Seattle Totems, Vancouver Canucks, Edmonton Eskimos, etc.

[JoeC]

I do recall the circus thing with the Knicks (and NY was a "hotbed" of interest compared to many of the other NBA cities of the time). The influx in the late 50s/early 60s of Wilt, Russell, Robertson, and Baylor really began to turn things around for the league. The "old" stars were great but not box office gold, guys like Cousy, Lovellette, Pettit, Sharman, Schayes, etc. To this day, I still far prefer college hoops to the NBA.

And weekend events at the old MSG would consist of 1-2 H.S. prelim's followed by an NBA doubleheader! All for one single low admission price  of maybe $2.00 - early 60's.

Another phenomenom with the NBA was the doubleheaders. 4 different NBA teams playing two back to back games. I know that was going on as late as 1966-67. Got an old program from the Baltimore Civic Center from the Fall of 1966. First game @6:30pm was Knicks-Pistons, second game @9pm was home team Bullets vs. Royals. Tix were still a hard sell I guess.

[doctordoowop]

North Stars to  dallas  too.

Joe-don't like  college--the one & out rule ruins it.  Besides  being  illegal
       
A  friend of mine grew up  in Boston--Russell's  Celtics  drew  only wellin playoffs.

[JoeC]

College hoops has its problems to be sure but so does the NBA. Each season starts with only 3-4 teams with any remote chance off winning the championship. And, with Golden State it looks like you could have the same franchise winning 5 or more titles in a row. No suspense to the season whatsoever.