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Author Topic: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)  (Read 53560 times)
bklynmike101
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« Reply #390 on: December 30, 2017, 03:12:42 PM »

Johnny Bower, one of my favorites, was reportedly 93 when he passed.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #391 on: December 30, 2017, 08:56:31 PM »

Mike--prob so.  I  dont  usually  read obits,except in the Sports  mag Grin Grin Grin
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Robb_K
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« Reply #392 on: December 30, 2017, 10:34:03 PM »

As rough as the 50s game was, when I think of "enforcers", the only players that come to mind are the Red Wings and Canadiens top lines (those guys were rough as well as great), then guys like Lou Fontinato, Al Arbour, Eddie Shack, Moose Vasko, Fern Flaman, Jack Evans, Forbes  Kennedy, Leo Boivin, Carl Brewer, and Tom Johnson. Who am I missing? Oh, forgot Doug Mohns.

Back during the 1950s there weren't that many "enforcers", because many of the regular skilled players were tough, and could fight their own fights (Gordie Howe, Rocket Richard, Ted Lindsay, Tim Horton, Tom Johnson, Black Jack Stewart, Butch Bouchard, etc.) - The only real "enforcers" back then who weren't tremendously valuable to their teams in other ways, were Lou Fontinato, Forbes Kennedy and Reggie Fleming.  The "Goon"enforcer, only good at fighting, didn't come in until the late '60s and ran all the way through about 2005.  Nowadays, when defencemen can no longer grab and hold players, or flatten them from behind without getting a penalty, there are only a couple "Goons" left.  Most teams can't afford to waste a roster position on someone who can't skate, score or defend.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 10:41:41 PM by Robb_K » Logged

doctordoowop
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« Reply #393 on: December 31, 2017, 03:21:14 AM »

Tim  Horton--what happened -killed  in car accident?    Must have been bright. Turned a good, not great,  NHL  career  into millions  with his  restaurant chain.

Sort of like  Celtic (briefly)  Togo  Palazzi-  with his chain of  sandwich shops.
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JoeC
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« Reply #394 on: December 31, 2017, 09:39:29 AM »

I saw Leapin' Lou play dozens of games at the old MSG. He considered himself an enforcer (the 200+ PIM, when that was unheard of) but I think he took far more incoming than he gave out. Ended up paralyzed for a month. Here's a clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczNJVH1UDA&t=1s

Robb, am I wrong in thinking there seemed to be an inordinate number of NHL players from Guelph, the city not necessarily the team? Lou's hometown.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 09:46:38 AM by JoeC » Logged
bklynmike101
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« Reply #395 on: December 31, 2017, 02:58:03 PM »

Tim  Horton--what happened -killed  in car accident?    Must have been bright. Turned a good, not great,  NHL  career  into millions  with his  restaurant chain.

Sort of like  Celtic (briefly)  Togo  Palazzi-  with his chain of  sandwich shops.

Yes, Tim was killed while driving drunk. Hockey players back in the day were notorious for their alcohol consumption - e.g. Sawchuck-Stewart fight. The fast food chain may be worth much, but I don't think Tim saw too much of the bounty.  Wiki claims his widow ended up with a grand total of $1MM - no more. While not exactly chump change, not "millions" either.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #396 on: December 31, 2017, 03:35:55 PM »

I saw Leapin' Lou play dozens of games at the old MSG. He considered himself an enforcer (the 200+ PIM, when that was unheard of) but I think he took far more incoming than he gave out. Ended up paralyzed for a month. Here's a clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczNJVH1UDA&t=1s

Robb, am I wrong in thinking there seemed to be an inordinate number of NHL players from Guelph, the city not necessarily the team? Lou's hometown.
No.  Not wrong.  Guelph had a few public rinks plus one of the best Junior A teams, The Guelph Biltmores.  Many of the great NHL players and coaches came out of Guelph.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #397 on: December 31, 2017, 03:49:37 PM »

Well  would  have been  millions   if  he  didn't drink.

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bklynmike101
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« Reply #398 on: January 01, 2018, 12:46:06 PM »

DDW,

This is true.
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JoeC
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« Reply #399 on: February 02, 2018, 02:49:16 PM »

Las Vegas Golden Knights were 500-1 to win Stanley Cup in pre-season. Now, odds are down to 8-1. How can an inaugural team be this good?

I recall when my adopted Capitals came into the league in 1974-75 as an expansion team. They went 8-67-5, with only one road win (their opener). They lost four games by 10 or more goals! 15 players with -40 or worse (one was -82). Didn't have a winning season until their 9th year in existence. 
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #400 on: February 02, 2018, 04:16:18 PM »

Road  teams in Vegas  get no  sleep. Grin Grin Grin

Seriously  how do  home/road records compare?

Think teams cant protect as many as  they   once could.
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JoeC
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« Reply #401 on: February 02, 2018, 05:23:23 PM »

That must be the case, Doctor (not being able to protect as many players). Still, Vegas GKs are amazing! In the Capitals, KC Scouts, Califiornia Golden Seals days, the NHL raped the new teams financially, then ensured they'd never contend for a decade or more.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 08:25:33 PM by JoeC » Logged
doctordoowop
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« Reply #402 on: February 02, 2018, 08:08:30 PM »

I  had to  check Joe-I was right--their  home  record is  about .900,road is about  .600.The NHL guys do  party.Even their  chauffeurs--recall  Red Wings?
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JoeC
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« Reply #403 on: February 02, 2018, 08:29:35 PM »

Anyone have any thoughts about the NHL's likely expansion into three more cities -- Seattle, Houston, and a return to Quebec City?
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #404 on: February 02, 2018, 11:06:01 PM »

Seattle--prob w/arena  -why Sonics  left. Too  close to  Vancouver?

Houston-sure-supported  Aeros.

QCity--not sure-why did  Nordiques  leave.Too close to   Montreal?   

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JoeC
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« Reply #405 on: February 03, 2018, 08:29:20 AM »

Doctor, from what I've read, Houston is the #1 city for NHL expansion. You'd think Seattle, if serious, is large enough to build new arena. Think QC lost Nordiques because the market was just too small?

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Robb_K
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« Reply #406 on: February 03, 2018, 12:44:50 PM »

Doctor, from what I've read, Houston is the #1 city for NHL expansion. You'd think Seattle, if serious, is large enough to build new arena. Think QC lost Nordiques because the market was just too small?
Quebec lost The Nordiques mostly because The Canadian Dollar collapsed vs. The US Dollar.  The Winnipeg Jets also lost their franchise then, for the same reason.  The new Jets are doing fine now.  So, I believe that Quebec will return to The NHL.  They ARE a very small market, but I believe they can support an NHL team - just as Hamilton can, and Saskatoon, Regina and probably Halifax can (despite having small population bases), because such a high % of their metro populations would be ardent fans.  The Toronto and Montreal metro areas could each likely support 4 NHL teams.

I think Seattle will get the next expansion team, by 2020.

Las Vegas got a much better deal, player acquisition-wise, getting 3 1st Round of the Junior Draft, plus having had the existing teams allowed to protect significantly less players than in all previous expansion drafts.  The bad part for Las Vegas haters (like me), who don't want desert teams and tropical city teams in The NHL, is that The Golden Knights will likely have success for many years to come, as they have traded off excess current NHL ready talent, they outbid other teams to procure and signed as free agents, for relatively high future draft choices.  They own more young talented future NHL prospects than any other NHL team.  This whole expansion to Las Vegas is disgusting. 
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Robb_K
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« Reply #407 on: February 03, 2018, 12:53:01 PM »

Seattle--prob w/arena  -why Sonics  left. Too  close to  Vancouver?
Houston-sure-supported  Aeros.
QCity--not sure-why did  Nordiques  leave.Too close to   Montreal?   

Seattle will be an excellent market for an NHL team, as a natural rival to Vancouver.  They used to have a rival league to The NHL, with a Seattle team, who played annually against The NHL, for The Stanley Cup.  Seattle has had a team in Canada's Major Junior, Western Hockey League for over half a century, so that city is used to a high level of hockey.  Their Western Hockey League (pro league on AHL level from 1950s through 2000s) has always drawn well.  They should be very successful, and are already slated to be the next NHL franchise, playing in a refurbished Key Arena, temporarily, until a new arena is built.
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JoeC
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« Reply #408 on: February 03, 2018, 12:55:05 PM »

Doctor, from what I've read, Houston is the #1 city for NHL expansion. You'd think Seattle, if serious, is large enough to build new arena. Think QC lost Nordiques because the market was just too small?
Quebec lost The Nordiques mostly because The Canadian Dollar collapsed vs. The US Dollar.  The Winnipeg Jets also lost their franchise then, for the same reason.  The new Jets are doing fine now.  So, I believe that Quebec will return to The NHL.  They ARE a very small market, but I believe they can support an NHL team - just as Hamilton can, and Saskatoon, Regina and probably Halifax can (despite having small population bases), because such a high % of their metro populations would be ardent fans.  The Toronto and Montreal metro areas could each likely support 4 NHL teams.

I think Seattle will get the next expansion team, by 2020.

Las Vegas got a much better deal, player acquisition-wise, getting 3 1st Round of the Junior Draft, plus having had the existing teams allowed to protect significantly less players than in all previous expansion drafts.  The bad part for Las Vegas haters (like me), who don't want desert teams and tropical city teams in The NHL, is that The Golden Knights will likely have success for many years to come, as they have traded off excess current NHL ready talent, they outbid other teams to procure and signed as free agents, for relatively high future draft choices.  They own more young talented future NHL prospects than any other NHL team.  This whole expansion to Las Vegas is disgusting. 

Robb, About Vegas, I agree with you. Bet most of the tourists (be interesting to know what % of the crowd they make up), don't know even the most basic things about the game. Just an "event" to them. Sorta cheapens the product. I know the Caps hated having to give up D Nate Schmidt (former Minnesota Golden Gopher), a rising star.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #409 on: February 03, 2018, 01:21:18 PM »

Robb-I assume u  don't  like  Miami, Tampa, Phoenix, or San Jose?  I don't either.

If GB  can support  Packers agree about  Quebac.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #410 on: February 03, 2018, 02:37:37 PM »

Notwithstanding the draft rule changes in their favor, I still think what Vegas has done on the ice is nothing short of amazing. Has to be the best performance of a 1st year expansion team in any of the major sports ever - certainly within my lifetime.  Slightly better than my beloved '62 Mets. 
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Robb_K
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« Reply #411 on: February 03, 2018, 07:36:09 PM »

Notwithstanding the draft rule changes in their favor, I still think what Vegas has done on the ice is nothing short of amazing. Has to be the best performance of a 1st year expansion team in any of the major sports ever - certainly within my lifetime.  Slightly better than my beloved '62 Mets. 

Probably so, given that the 1901 American League (Baseball), and The Cleveland Browns(former AAC), and AFL and ABA and WHA teams were all "rogue leagues", all had the ability to sign any talents they wanted, by not following the existing major league rules.  However, I think that The 1967 St. Louis Blues, are right up there with them, as they were really the only NHL expansion team given no breaks at all in acquiring talent (they got the shaft, and no chance to draft Juniors -as all Junior talent was owned by the 6 original teams).  But their success was watered down a bit by them not having to play an Original 6 Eastern Division team until The Stanley Cup final.  But, The Blues were better than Toronto and Detroit in 1967-71, and held their own against The Rangers at that time.  They were for real.  They lost 4 straight to The Canadiens in the '68 Finals, but 2 of the 4 games went to OT, and the other two were 1-goal games.  The Golden Knights have yet to play a playoff game.  And the "serious hockey has only started for the last 2 games since The All Star Break.  So, we will see.  But, with their games won already, they will certainly make the playoffs (which is already a great achievement).
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #412 on: February 03, 2018, 08:27:10 PM »

mike--Press--"Why was  Hobie  Landrith  your # 1 pick?"


Casey--"W/O  a catcher u get a lot of  passed  balls." Grin
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JoeC
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« Reply #413 on: February 03, 2018, 08:41:26 PM »

Robb-I assume u  don't  like  Miami, Tampa, Phoenix, or San Jose?  I don't either.

If GB  can support  Packers agree about  Quebac.

Anyone think Green Bay would have a snowball's chance of landing an NFL franchise these days? They lucked out. Do they still play a game or two in Milwaukee every year? I don't recall one recently though I may just have missed it. More likely they're playing in England these days I guess.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #414 on: February 03, 2018, 09:37:54 PM »

Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.
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JoeC
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« Reply #415 on: February 03, 2018, 09:48:45 PM »

Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.

I looked it up and the Packers played 2-4 games a year in Milwaukee from 1953-1994. More games than I thought! Wonder what the temperature difference between the two cities was for the Ice Bowl (New Year's Eve of '67?)? Regardless, I'm sure that was never an option.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #416 on: February 04, 2018, 01:28:47 AM »

Notwithstanding the draft rule changes in their favor, I still think what Vegas has done on the ice is nothing short of amazing. Has to be the best performance of a 1st year expansion team in any of the major sports ever - certainly within my lifetime.  Slightly better than my beloved '62 Mets. 

Probably so, given that the 1901 American League (Baseball), and The Cleveland Browns(former AAC), and AFL and ABA and WHA teams were all "rogue leagues", all had the ability to sign any talents they wanted, by not following the existing major league rules.  However, I think that The 1967 St. Louis Blues, are right up there with them, as they were really the only NHL expansion team given no breaks at all in acquiring talent (they got the shaft, and no chance to draft Juniors -as all Junior talent was owned by the 6 original teams).  But their success was watered down a bit by them not having to play an Original 6 Eastern Division team until The Stanley Cup final.  But, The Blues were better than Toronto and Detroit in 1967-71, and held their own against The Rangers at that time.  They were for real.  They lost 4 straight to The Canadiens in the '68 Finals, but 2 of the 4 games went to OT, and the other two were 1-goal games.  The Golden Knights have yet to play a playoff game.  And the "serious hockey has only started for the last 2 games since The All Star Break.  So, we will see.  But, with their games won already, they will certainly make the playoffs (which is already a great achievement).

Robb, I believe I have some vague recollection of the "original" expansion SL Blues. Al Arbour perhaps? Plus Red Berenson, the Plager's, Glenn Hall in net?
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Robb_K
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« Reply #417 on: February 04, 2018, 03:36:29 AM »

Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.

I looked it up and the Packers played 2-4 games a year in Milwaukee from 1953-1994. More games than I thought! Wonder what the temperature difference between the two cities was for the Ice Bowl (New Year's Eve of '67?)? Regardless, I'm sure that was never an option.
Maybe 2-4 degrees, at most.  In winter, the only difference between them would be if the cold front was between them, and that might only last a few hours.
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JoeC
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« Reply #418 on: February 04, 2018, 09:58:06 AM »

Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.

I looked it up and the Packers played 2-4 games a year in Milwaukee from 1953-1994. More games than I thought! Wonder what the temperature difference between the two cities was for the Ice Bowl (New Year's Eve of '67?)? Regardless, I'm sure that was never an option.
Maybe 2-4 degrees, at most.  In winter, the only difference between them would be if the cold front was between them, and that might only last a few hours.

Makes sense. Both on the Lake.

Weather-related: Do all the Great Lakes produce bands of "Lake Effect" snow to the cities surrounding them? Or, just Lake Erie? Here in the East that's the one we always hear about (with Buffalo and its southern suburbs). I know Chicago normally gets a ton of snow but ... same meteorologic conditions, or no?
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Robb_K
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« Reply #419 on: February 04, 2018, 12:08:51 PM »

Weather-related: Do all the Great Lakes produce bands of "Lake Effect" snow to the cities surrounding them? Or, just Lake Erie? Here in the East that's the one we always hear about (with Buffalo and its southern suburbs). I know Chicago normally gets a ton of snow but ... same meteorologic conditions, or no?
Yes, ALL 5 Great lakes produce lake effect snowstorms.  The difference between Buffalo, Erie, Cleveland and Chicago, Milwaukee, Green Bay and Duluth, is that the former group's cities lie to the east of the lakes, and the latter's to the west.  So, the lake effect snows come from different directions.  All storms track west to east, arriving on the Northern Hemisphere Jet Stream.  These storms move, generally, from west towards the east, but arrive spinning in a circular cyclonic motion.  When the colder air, passes over the warmer water, it picks up moisture from the lakes, which are warmer than the land.  When it then flows over the colder land, it drops that moisture, which turned into snow by having mixed above with the colder air from the incoming cold front, and the colder air over the colder land.  That evaporated water, turned colder, becomes ice crystals, which aggregate and become heavier, and fall as snow.  A LOT more snow falls near the lake than inland, because of the water in the warmer air.  The cities WEST of the lakes get their snow on the westward movement of the cyclonic circular movement, on the northern swing of that motion (e.g off Lake Michigan, and in Detroit and Toledo, from Lake Erie, The Detroit River, and lake St. Clair.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 12:10:38 PM by Robb_K » Logged

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