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Author Topic: Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)  (Read 70721 times)
Robb_K
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« Reply #420 on: February 04, 2018, 12:28:33 PM »

Robb, I believe I have some vague recollection of the "original" expansion SL Blues. Al Arbour perhaps? Plus Red Berenson, the Plager's, Glenn Hall in net?
The 1967-71 Blues had Glenn Hall and Jacques Plante in net, Al Arbour, Noel Picard, Barclay and Bob Plager, Jean-Guy Talbot, Doug Harvey and jimmy Roberts on defence, and forwards: Red Berenson, Phil Goyette, Dickie Moore, Camille Henry, Gary Sabourin, Terry Gray, Ab McDonald (my Winnipeg neighbour), Don McKenney, Frank St. Marseille, Tim Ecclestone, Terry Crisp, Larry Keenan and Bill McCreary.

They were competitive instantly.  They led their all-time series against both Detroit and Toronto until Detroit started winning big in the 1980s, based on heavily scouting and drafting European players.  Hall and Plante gave them impregnable goaltending, they had a very strong, tough and smothering defence, and Berenson and Goyette were all stars in The NHL's Top 10 in scoring, and St. Marseille, Sabourin, McDonald, Henry and others gave them enough supporting goal scoring.  They were the most successful expansion team until The Vegas Golden Knights.  I became a Blackhawks fan during the early 1950s because there was no NHL team in Winnipeg, and my neighbour and son of our family friends, Ab McDonald, was a farmhand of The Blackhawks.  I was their fan also for the 10 years he played left wing for them.  I became a Blues fan when he was traded to St. Louis.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #421 on: February 04, 2018, 01:51:27 PM »

Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.

I looked it up and the Packers played 2-4 games a year in Milwaukee from 1953-1994. More games than I thought! Wonder what the temperature difference between the two cities was for the Ice Bowl (New Year's Eve of '67?)? Regardless, I'm sure that was never an option.
Maybe 2-4 degrees, at most.  In winter, the only difference between them would be if the cold front was between them, and that might only last a few hours.

All I can add is I spent 9 months, including the dead of winter, commuting weekly to Milwaukee in '96. There was a 2 week period in which the temperature did not break zero, day or night. The day it hit -16F in the morning, I took a walk outside to "experience" it. The next day, I was gone (per work schedule) and it reached -26F. Sorry I missed it - Winnipeg-like perhaps?
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #422 on: February 04, 2018, 01:54:34 PM »

Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.

I looked it up and the Packers played 2-4 games a year in Milwaukee from 1953-1994. More games than I thought! Wonder what the temperature difference between the two cities was for the Ice Bowl (New Year's Eve of '67?)? Regardless, I'm sure that was never an option.
Maybe 2-4 degrees, at most.  In winter, the only difference between them would be if the cold front was between them, and that might only last a few hours.

Makes sense. Both on the Lake.

Weather-related: Do all the Great Lakes produce bands of "Lake Effect" snow to the cities surrounding them? Or, just Lake Erie? Here in the East that's the one we always hear about (with Buffalo and its southern suburbs). I know Chicago normally gets a ton of snow but ... same meteorologic conditions, or no?

I can tell you from personal experience (Rochester, NY) that Lake Ontario definitely produces "lake effect" snow (and lots of it in the 70's).
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #423 on: February 04, 2018, 02:00:54 PM »

Robb, I believe I have some vague recollection of the "original" expansion SL Blues. Al Arbour perhaps? Plus Red Berenson, the Plager's, Glenn Hall in net?
The 1967-71 Blues had Glenn Hall and Jacques Plante in net, Al Arbour, Noel Picard, Barclay and Bob Plager, Jean-Guy Talbot, Doug Harvey on defence, and forwards: Red Berenson, Phil Goyette, Dickie Moore, Camille Henry, Gary Sabourin, Terry Gray, Ab McDonald (my Winnipeg neighbour), Don McKenney, Frank St. Marseille, Tim Ecclestone, Terry Crisp, Larry Keenan.

They were competitive instantly.  They led their all-time series against both Detroit and Toronto until Detroit started winning big in the 1980s, based on heavily scouting and drafting European players.  Hall and Plante gave them impregnable goaltending, they had a very strong, tough and smothering defence, and Berenson and Goyette were all stars in The NHL's Top 10 in scoring, and St. Marseille, Sabourin, McDonald, Henry and others gave them enough supporting goal scoring.  They were the most successful expansion team until The Vegas Golden Knights.  I became a Blackhawks fan during the early 1950s because there was no NHL team in Winnipeg, and my neighbour and son of our family friends, Ab McDonald was a farmhand of The Blackhawks.  I became a Blues fan when he was traded to The Blues.

I looked up the roster. They assembled a bunch of veterans, old-timers, and castoffs that still had a lot left in the tank. Imagine a goaltending tandem of Hall and Plante! Hard to beat that then or now. I remember your telling us about your relationship to Ab McDonald, whom I remember - very cool. My personal best "closeness" to a real hockey player was frequenting a dry cleaner who claimed to have "grown up with" Gordie Howe" in Saskatchewan  Grin
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Robb_K
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« Reply #424 on: February 04, 2018, 02:48:13 PM »

Joe--they played a  couple/yr  in County  Stadium.  Where would  they play?  Miller Field? 

Not in Milwaukee for decades, IMO.
They played in County Stadium.  I don't remember them ever playing in Miller Field.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #425 on: February 04, 2018, 02:51:13 PM »

Tim  Horton--what happened -killed  in car accident?    Must have been bright. Turned a good, not great,  NHL  career  into millions  with his  restaurant chain.

Sort of like  Celtic (briefly)  Togo  Palazzi-  with his chain of  sandwich shops.

I would say that he had a great NHL career.  He was one of the Top 5 defencemen of his time.  He is in The Hockey Hall of Fame.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #426 on: February 04, 2018, 02:58:36 PM »

All I can add is I spent 9 months, including the dead of winter, commuting weekly to Milwaukee in '96. There was a 2 week period in which the temperature did not break zero, day or night. The day it hit -16F in the morning, I took a walk outside to "experience" it. The next day, I was gone (per work schedule) and it reached -26F. Sorry I missed it - Winnipeg-like perhaps?
If it was -16F in Milwaukee, then it would likely be -30+ in Winnipeg.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #427 on: February 04, 2018, 04:05:38 PM »

Sorry-Horton  in HOF?  Based  on play,or for  other reasons? --- Tragic death, business acumen.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #428 on: February 04, 2018, 05:20:55 PM »

Sorry-Horton  in HOF?  Based  on play,or for  other reasons? --- Tragic death, business acumen.
He was elected in 1977, based solely on his playing career - one of the best defencemen of his time.  Nothing to do with his business or death.
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JoeC
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« Reply #429 on: February 04, 2018, 05:59:25 PM »

One of my all-time favorites -- Terrible Ted Lindsay. Think he's still alive, well into his 90s. He did the NYR TV play by play in the late 60s -- "That's layin' the lumber on 'em" was his catchphrase. Only 5'8 but would cheap shot/battle anyone. Of course he had Howe to protect him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq55H79lK9g
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Robb_K
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« Reply #430 on: February 04, 2018, 07:46:18 PM »

One of my all-time favorites -- Terrible Ted Lindsay. Think he's still alive, well into his 90s. He did the NYR TV play by play in the late 60s -- "That's layin' the lumber on 'em" was his catchphrase. Only 5'8 but would cheap shot/battle anyone. Of course he had Howe to protect him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq55H79lK9g

I saw Lindsay play, while he was still at the tail end of his prime, and still a very effective player.  Ted Lindsay was the toughest man, pound for pound, that I've ever seen.  I'm not just talking about hockey, but also my experience seeing street gangs in action.  Lindsay was "a little ball of hate".  He didn't need Howe to protect him.  He could even hold his own with bigger players.
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JoeC
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« Reply #431 on: February 04, 2018, 08:46:32 PM »

I saw him play in person once. In the 56-57 season against the NYR in the old MSG. He scored 30 goals that season (back when that was really an accomplishment). I should have phrased that better about Howe. You're right, he didn't NEED Howe, although I think any line mate of Gordie's would be more than happy he was out there with him.

I remember how the Rangers (and I am sure all opponents) hated Ted because he was so physical (they were constantly calling him a cheap shot artist). That line of Howe and Lindsay, centered Delvecchio was probably the most potent scoring machine I've seen.

Am I wrong in remembering that Alex D was NOT a very physical player? Sort of like Gretzky wasn't. Who was the most physical Center you've seen? I might go with Bobby Clarke.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #432 on: February 04, 2018, 09:01:02 PM »

I saw him play in person once. In the 56-57 season against the NYR in the old MSG. He scored 30 goals that season (back when that was really an accomplishment). I should have phrased that better about Howe. You're right, he didn't NEED Howe, although I think any line mate of Gordie's would be more than happy he was out there with him.

I remember how the Rangers (and I am sure all opponents) hated Ted because he was so physical (they were constantly calling him a cheap shot artist). That line of Howe and Lindsay, centered Delvecchio was probably the most potent scoring machine I've seen.

Am I wrong in remembering that Alex D was NOT a very physical player? Sort of like Gretzky wasn't. Who was the most physical Center you've seen? I might go with Bobby Clarke.
Yes, Delvecchio wasn't very physical.  Neither was Sid Abel, before him.  But, both could dish the puck very well.  

Yes, Bobby Clarke was a very physical centre.  Phil Esposito was physical.  Easy for him with that huge body.  Stan Mikita, Eric Lindros, Peter Forsberg and Mark Messier were also very physical centers.
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JoeC
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« Reply #433 on: February 04, 2018, 11:02:29 PM »

Yes, Delvecchio wasn't very physical.  Neither was Sid Abel, before him.  But, both could dish the puck very well.  

Yes, Bobby Clarke was a very physical centre.  Phil Esposito was physical.  Easy for him with that huge body.  Stan Mikita, Eric Lindros, Peter Forsberg and Mark Messier were also very physical centers.

Jibes with my memory! IMO, Norm Ullman played an all-round tougher game in centering those wingers than Abel or Delvecchio, 
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JoeC
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« Reply #434 on: February 06, 2018, 08:06:27 PM »

When growing up, I'm thinking the boards around the ice surface had nothing on them -- no advertising at all. Is that right? If so, around when did that change to what we have today?

Also, no names on backs of jerseys, just the number. Was that true of all teams or did it vary?
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #435 on: February 06, 2018, 08:44:59 PM »

Joe-correct  boards no ads.Not sure  wen changed.   Or wen  #  appeared on jerseys.

Now  ALL  MLB  has  names  on back except NY,& Boston Home.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #436 on: February 06, 2018, 10:53:37 PM »

When growing up, I'm thinking the boards around the ice surface had nothing on them -- no advertising at all. Is that right? If so, around when did that change to what we have today?

Also, no names on backs of jerseys, just the number. Was that true of all teams or did it vary?
The boards had no advertising until the late 1970s orb beginning of the 1980s.  Players on ALL NHL teams had only numbers and no names.  Do they have names now???  I don't remember EVER seeing names on NHL Jerseys.
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JoeC
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« Reply #437 on: February 07, 2018, 12:07:58 PM »

Well, here's a partial answer from a Leafs blog:

"Back in 1977, NHL Presdent John Ziegler mandated that all teams had to wear names on the rear of their road sweaters. It made broadcasters' jobs easier because they could more easily identify the visiting players, especially if there had been trades or demotions to minor-league clubs. The NHL allowed for some time for teams to get names on the rear of their uniforms, but Ballard held firm: no names will appear on the backs of the Maple Leafs.

It took a letter from the league threatening Ballard with fines in February 1978 for him to finally agree to have names appear on Leafs road uniforms. The only problem? Ballard added the names in the same colour blue as the uniform! Ballard's reasoning for this move was that he was going to lose a pile of money in program sales if people didn't need to buy them to identify the players!"

So, questions that remain are do all teams wear sweaters with names, home and road, today?
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Robb_K
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« Reply #438 on: February 07, 2018, 09:41:06 PM »

"Back in 1977, NHL Presdent John Ziegler mandated that all teams had to wear names on the rear of their road sweaters.
It took a letter from the league threatening Ballard with fines in February 1978 for him to finally agree to have names appear on Leafs road uniforms.
So, questions that remain are do all teams wear sweaters with names, home and road, today?

Apparently, because I saw most of my live games before 1977, I still see, in my head, uniforms with no names.  While watching games on TV and streaming them on my computers, I see the bigger numbers much more clearly than the smaller names above.  Watching game highlights, teams seem to have names on both home and road uniforms.
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JoeC
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« Reply #439 on: February 07, 2018, 10:07:45 PM »

Robb, thanks. I switched on the Hockey Channel and saw the same thing.

This Harold Ballard was apparently a wild man. Once threatened to take a fireman's axe to the cables for TV lighting that he claimed was distracting his players. This, during a Hockey Night in Canada broadcast no less. Other similar incidents too. But ... didn't stop him from getting into the Hockey HoF.

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JoeC
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« Reply #440 on: February 23, 2018, 07:28:13 PM »

Germany 4, Canada 3 in the Olympic semi's Huh?
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #441 on: February 23, 2018, 08:35:53 PM »

Long live Gary Bettman.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #442 on: February 24, 2018, 07:19:39 PM »

Germany 4, Canada 3 in the Olympic semi's Huh?
Sad.  Germany's best players weren't good enough to make The NHL.  But they had practiced together a LOT more than the hastily-put-together Canadian and US teams.  So, they are capable of upsetting them.  I liked it better when The World's best players could participate in The Olympics.   Embarrassed
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JoeC
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« Reply #443 on: February 24, 2018, 07:34:57 PM »

Germany 4, Canada 3 in the Olympic semi's Huh?
Sad.  Germany's best players weren't good enough to make The NHL.  But they had practiced together a LOT more than the hastily-put-together Canadian and US teams.  So, they are capable of upsetting them.  I liked it better when The World's best players could participate in The Olympics.   Embarrassed

I think we all preferred that Robb. Think the Caps #2 goalie Philip Grubauer is an ex-German national team player.
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JoeC
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« Reply #444 on: March 28, 2018, 08:42:54 AM »

Hockey history trivia questions (with a clue for most questions):

1. First NHL player to score 100 points in a season?
Clue: 1969

2. Why do Red Wings fans throw octopi onto the ice?
Clue: Original Six

3. Player with fastest slap shot on record?
Clue: 118 mph

4. Why are pucks frozen before game use?

5. Team with most future HoF players on it? The team, and the year.
Clue: Original Six

6. First million dollar contract in NHL history?
Clue: 1971

7. First goalie to score a goal in both regular season and playoff game?
Clue: 1987-88 and 1988-89

8. Defenseman with most total points in a season's playoff rounds?



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Robb_K
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« Reply #445 on: March 28, 2018, 04:02:07 PM »

Hockey history trivia questions (with a clue for most questions):

1. First NHL player to score 100 points in a season?
Clue: 1969

2. Why do Red Wings fans throw octopi onto the ice?
Clue: Original Six

3. Player with fastest slap shot on record?
Clue: 118 mph

4. Why are pucks frozen before game use?

5. Team with most future HoF players on it? The team, and the year.
Clue: Original Six

6. First million dollar contract in NHL history?
Clue: 1971

7. First goalie to score a goal in both regular season and playoff game?
Clue: 1987-88 and 1988-89

8. Defenseman with most total points in a season's playoff rounds?

1. Phil Esposito, Bruins 1968-69.  Orr followed him, the next year with 120.

2. Because 2 Detroit fishmonger brothers did it first in 1952 playoffs, to signify the 8 games The Wings would need to win The Stanley Cup.  They swept Toronto, and then beat Montreal 4-2, ro win The Cup.  It became a tradition of the fans, after seeing it take a LONG time to have it removed and clean the ice.  Roll Eyes

3. I remember it being a Washington Cap player who was the best for many years.  His slapper was ALWAYS  over 103-104 (and those were his weak shots).  But, I can't remember a lot of things from post Expansion times.  I always wante The Blues' Al MacInnis to break the record.

4. Pucks used to be 100% rubber, and they bounced like crazy before they started freezing them.  It was to stop the bouncing, and make them slide better.

5. I don't know this for sure, but I'd guess that it was The 1959-60 Montreal Canadiens.

6. Another post Expansion question, I can't answer.  I know that Bobby Hull's WHA contract was the first pro hockey $1 Million contract.  But, as to who was the first NHL player to get that amount in a single year, I have no idea.  Was it Gretzky?

7. I remember that Ron Hextall was the first to aim for a goal and score in The NHL.  I'd guess that he was first to score in regular season AND the playoffs.

8.  I know someone passed Bobby Orr's best.  I would guess it was an Edmonton Oiler.  Was it Paul Coffey?
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JoeC
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« Reply #446 on: March 28, 2018, 04:50:44 PM »

Robb, Quiz covered up through at least 2013.

#3. Bobby Hull -- supposedly slap shot was clocked at 118 mph

#5. 1956 Canadiens, so you had right team, wrong year. 12 players.

#6. Misleading question in terms of wording. They were looking at first million dollar contract TOTAL (not for a season). Answer was Bobby Orr (5 yrs @ $200K per year). Signed in 1971.
Wonder if it was guaranteed money?? Wonder who got first $1M contract for one season. Didn't Sanderson sign a big contract back in early 70s?

Everything else, you were right on the money.

They don't name the 12 Canadien future HoFers on the '56 team. Here's my shot at it! Beliveau, Harvey, Geoffrion, Plante, Moore, H. Richard, M. Richard, Bouchard, Johnson, Olmstead. That's only 10. I guess they would count Toe Blake, the coach, for #11. #12 could be an owner or someone like that or, more likely, I'm just forgetting a player who made the HoF.

Only other interesting notes from that article were (1) Andy Bathgate says he invented the curved stick before Mikita; (2) last goalie to play in a game without a mask was Pittsburgh goalie Andy  Brown (1974); and there was a goalie in 1930 who played at least one game with a leather mask. Ouch!

BTW, how DO they clean octopi from the ice surface. Scrape them off? Then put down a new layer of ice over what's left?





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Robb_K
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« Reply #447 on: March 28, 2018, 07:33:40 PM »

#3. Bobby Hull -- supposedly slap shot was clocked at 118 mph. #5. 1956 Canadiens. #6. Bobby Orr (5 yrs @ $200K per year). Signed in 1971.  Wonder who got first $1M contract for one season. Didn't Sanderson sign a big contract back in early 70s?

Andy Bathgate says he invented the curved stick before Mikita; (2) last goalie to play in a game without a mask was Pittsburgh goalie Andy  Brown (1974); and there was a goalie in 1930 who played at least one game with a leather mask. Ouch!

BTW, how DO they clean octopi from the ice surface. Scrape them off? Then put down a new layer of ice over what's left?

Funny, if ANYBODY should have known that Bobby Hull had the hardest shot it was I.  I visited Chicago in all the winters before 1963, and watched ALL Hawks' games during his prime '63-'72.  I missed that because I thought more recent players, playing with the later composite sticks that were more flexible, and could whip the puck, would have made the puck move at greater speeds.  I'd be shocked to find out that no recent player made them move at higher velocity than Hull.

I don't remember Bathgate using a curved stick before Mikita.  But, if he really did, I glad.  Being a fellow Winnipegger, he was one of my heroes growing up.  

They had to scrape the octopi and its oily residue off the ice.  Then scrape it further, to get down to clean ice.  Then the pushed new ice over it and smoothed it out with a scraper.  It took a few minutes.  That's why the fans liked it, because they actually affected the game that way.

As to the 1955-56 Canadiens, only 10 HOFers were players (the 10 you listed) - Kenny Mosdell, Dolly St. Laurent, Donnie Marshall and Claude Provost were the only others even remotely possible, and none of them are in The HOF.  I'm guessing that Coach, Toe Blake, and team President, Frank Selke are the other two (though that's a bit of cheating on the question asker's part.

I'm so old that I played exclusively through Juniors with one piece solid wood sticks with straight blades, wearing no helmet.
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JoeC
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« Reply #448 on: March 28, 2018, 08:07:21 PM »

Robb,

You're right. Think many of those questions needed a disclaimer or two. As for the Canadiens, I think you are right that Selke must be the 12th. Blake made the HoF as a Player too, didn't he? But well before 1956. Also, I wasn't sure about Henri Richard (that he played as early as 1955-56).

I played high school hockey in New York (1958-59). As you say, no helmets. Can't recall what brand of hockey skates I had. I do remember I had a Northland stick. Do they even make those anymore?

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Robb_K
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« Reply #449 on: March 28, 2018, 08:27:34 PM »

Robb,

You're right. Think many of those questions needed a disclaimer or two. As for the Canadiens, I think you are right that Selke must be the 12th. Blake made the HoF as a Player too, didn't he? But well before 1956. Also, I wasn't sure about Henri Richard (that he played as early as 1955-56).

I played high school hockey in New York (1958-59). As you say, no helmets. Can't recall what brand of hockey skates I had. I do remember I had a Northland stick. Do they even make those anymore?
Yes, they still make Northlands.  That's a US firm in Minnesota.  I used mostly Sher-wood and Victoriaville sticks, but had a couple Northlands as well.  And even tried a CCM in later, recreational games, as an adult.  I didn't like the composite sticks, because they break if you just sneeze on them.  Also, I don't like playing with a curved stick because its harder to control the puck on the backhand, and shoot backhanders.  That's after thousands of days playing with a straight blade.  We had our backyard rink (over 2 backyards (ours and my father's brother's house, next door).  We had a very big rink for a private one, with real metal pipe goals, and we had a push ice scraper.  So, o ur ice was pretty even.  We laid it down each October, and usually played through most of April (sometimes to its end (back in pre Global Warming times).  We usually had 5.5 months of night freezes.  My uncle was a peewee coach.   So, I played from age 5 through first year of Juniors (15).  So that was 11 years of about half the year's worth of days of league and school games, practises, or pick-up games on our home rink.  That's about 1900 days of playing with straight wood sticks, plus maybe another 150 as an adult in pick up games, vs. maybe 35-40 recreational games with a slightly curved composite.  Old habits die hard.  

It seems that no one else here is very interested in hockey, anymore.  Or else they are busy with more important things.  Let's hope they're busy with pleasant things, like new lovelives, round The World trips, and the like, and not pressure from work or litigation, or being audited.
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