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Robb_K
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« Reply #480 on: April 01, 2018, 07:50:58 PM »

Forbes Kennedy. 5'8, 150. Pound for pound, was anyone tougher? Four fights and a punched linesman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-s6uT16S8A
I don't think there was anyone tougher pound for pound.  Maybe Ted Lindsey.  There were a LOT of really small fireballs in The Old NHL.  Reg Fleming was also very small and light.

Yeah, I always forget how small Terrible Ted was. He played so big! Also, in that YT clip of Forbes Kennedy's last NHL shift, the only one who got the better of Forbes was Pieface McKenzie. Another little scrapper. Kennedy was banned after that brawl, no? I mean, 38 minutes in penalties assessed plus punching the linesman?

Kennedy had several multiple game suspensions during his career.  They used to call Johnny M., "Pie".  He had a "pie face", but nobody called him that.  In the '40s and '50s, 180 was a "big" player.  There were lots of 150-165 lb players.  6' was "tall".  There were lots of fireplug defencemen at 5-7 or 5-8 and 170 to 175 lb.  They were rotund, but surprisingly mobile (at least in those days terms).
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JoeC
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« Reply #481 on: April 01, 2018, 08:01:09 PM »

I remember at MSG, Ranger fans referred to him as "Pie Face." At least at one point in time. Maybe they called him that to get under his skin. He was one of the more hated Rangers' opponents, for some reason.

When we were mentioning Dolly St. Laurent in the Viet Nam thread, I was wondering about two things: (1) were pretty much all Montreal Canadiens players household names throughout Canada in their 1950s glory years (sort of in the way Yankees players were so well known in the USA, even those not named Mantle or Berra or Ford); and, (2) what were the ground rules in Original Six days for "Hockey Night In Canada." For example, did the Saturday night feature game have to include either the Leafs or Habs, or could it involve two US teams?

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Robb_K
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« Reply #482 on: April 01, 2018, 08:58:32 PM »

I was wondering about two things: (1) were pretty much all Montreal Canadiens players household names throughout Canada in their 1950s glory years (sort of in the way Yankees players were so well known in the USA, even those not named Mantle or Berra or Ford); and, (2) what were the ground rules in Original Six days for "Hockey Night In Canada." For example, did the Saturday night feature game have to include either the Leafs or Habs, or could it involve two US teams?

The Rangers fans could well have called McKenzie "Pie Face" to antagonise him.  Just about ALL Canadiens players were household names, because of Hockey Night In Canada, and because most Canadian families were either Canadiens or Leafs fans. So, even the women non-sports fans knew the names of ALL the regulars on those 2 teams.  My mother was a "hockey mom", but, she didn't really care that much about male team sports, unless she had a family member or family friend in the game. So, she cheered for her sons' and nephews' youth hockey teams, and Ab's teams.  But, she never even cared about Winnipeg's Junior, Senior and minor pro teams, otherwise.  Yet, she recognised the names of most Canadien and Leaf regulars from the '40s and '50s because of seeing adverts with them and hearing their names when we were listening to (and later watching) their games.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #483 on: April 01, 2018, 08:59:54 PM »

Wonder  if Dolly  had  his  best games  in  Madison SG?
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Robb_K
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« Reply #484 on: April 01, 2018, 09:17:57 PM »

Wonder  if Dolly  had  his  best games  in  Madison SG?
Why would he? 
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #485 on: April 01, 2018, 09:34:06 PM »

Robb--Dolly  swimmingly  fits with  Madison. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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JoeC
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« Reply #486 on: April 02, 2018, 07:56:08 AM »

Wonder  if Dolly  had  his  best games  in  Madison SG?
Why would he? 

From what I recall of Dolly, it would be hard for the casual fan (and I was one) to recognize a "best game" from St. Laurent. As I said, he was the antithesis of flashy, never really drew attention to himself. I certainly couldn't have made any judgment from game to game. Just seemed solid all the time.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #487 on: April 02, 2018, 10:33:49 AM »

When we were mentioning Dolly St. Laurent in the Viet Nam thread, I was wondering about two things: (1) were pretty much all Montreal Canadiens players household names throughout Canada in their 1950s glory years (sort of in the way Yankees players were so well known in the USA, even those not named Mantle or Berra or Ford); and, (2) what were the ground rules in Original Six days for "Hockey Night In Canada." For example, did the Saturday night feature game have to include either the Leafs or Habs, or could it involve two US teams?

Sorry.  I forgot to answer your question #2.  I'm sure that "Hockey Night in Canada" had a preference to have a Canadian NHL team's game broadcast on Saturday night, but not likely to have had a hard and fast rule (in other words, if it were not possible to broadcast such a game, they wouldn't cancel their broadcast.  However, I don't remember ever having a Saturday Night during those years, on which a HNIC broadcast had 2 US teams playing.  Saturday evening was the most common day/time for NHL games at that time, moreso in Canada than in USA, and The Canadiens and Leafs both would have scheduled their games coordinated with HNIC's schedule.

I would guess that Dolly St. Laurent's best games would have been scattered across the several NHL rinks, with his home rinks having the best chance for his best games, over the years, with also a factor related to playing against the weaker teams, which over his career, would have included Chicago and The Rangers during his early career, and The Rangers and Boston near its end.  But, it seems like a strange comment to make.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #488 on: April 02, 2018, 12:26:23 PM »

Foster Hewitt? Danny Gallivan? I was "introduced" to the "Hockey Night in Canada" bit by a friend whose parents came from Montreal. Didn't have much access to their voices in the US, but somehow an excerpt or two occasionally found a way to my ears.

Just found a YT video of portions of the Stanley Cup final game of 1933 between Rangers and Leafs. Ching Johnson, Bill & Bun Cook, etc. I remember seeing Johnson and one or both Cooks skate out at MSG in an old timers' event in the mid/late '60's. No center ice red line? Love the sweeping second hand on the game clock!   
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JoeC
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« Reply #489 on: April 02, 2018, 01:14:34 PM »

- Was HNIC the ONLY televised hockey in the 1950s in Canada??

- In the U.S., the only national coverage was a Saturday afternoon game from January through the end of the season. This started in 1956 and featured Bud Palmer and Brian McFarlane (before he went to HNIC). All of the broadcasts were from Detroit, Chi, Boston or NY. What I remember was Brian doing the between-period interviews, on the ice wearing skates.

- As for local TV coverage, selective Rangers Home games were on Channels 11. Win Elliott and Bud Palmer were the announcers. Only a few Rangers Away games were even on the radio.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #490 on: April 02, 2018, 01:44:32 PM »

Schaefer Circle Of Sports - Win Elliot and Bob Wolfe. WPIX-11 and WOR-9. Always, jovial, Win would describe goals by mimicking the move of the goaltender on the air. Always loved it when he did that.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #491 on: April 02, 2018, 02:16:23 PM »

- Was HNIC the ONLY televised hockey in the 1950s in Canada??
CBC's HNIC Saturday evening games were the only NHL games shown on Canadian TV from 1952-mid 1963.  Before 1957-58, the broadcasts joined the games during the early middle of The 2nd Period, so no one would stay home to watch the game on TV.  In 57-58 through 1961-62, HNIC TV broadcasts started in the early middle of The 1st Period. In 1962-63, TV broadcasts started just before the beginning.  Of course, we could hear the game from the start on CBC Radio.  CTV started their Wednesday evening broadcasts at the start of The 1963-64 season. Those single night of the week CBC and CTV broadcasts were the only regular national TV NHL hockey broadcasts until 1967-68.  There were CBC Broadcasts of The Memorial Cup(Canadian Major Juniors) and Allan Cup Canadian Senior Amateur) playoffs, and some local regular season broadcasts.  Our Winnipeg WHL (Pro) team didn't have TV broadcasts, but did have local radio broadcasts.  Throughout most of The 1960s, The Montreal Canadians and Toronto Maple Leafs had local TV broadcasts of some home games, and away games at the other Canadian NHL city.
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JoeC
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« Reply #492 on: April 02, 2018, 04:57:03 PM »

Schaefer Circle Of Sports - Win Elliot and Bob Wolff. WPIX-11 and WOR-9. Always, jovial, Win would describe goals by mimicking the move of the goaltender on the air. Always loved it when he did that.

Mike, I forget about Wolff. He was a great announcer. Just died fairly recently if the same guy I'm thinking of.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 05:04:56 PM by JoeC » Logged
JoeC
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« Reply #493 on: April 02, 2018, 05:00:49 PM »

- Was HNIC the ONLY televised hockey in the 1950s in Canada??
CBC's HNIC Saturday evening games were the only NHL games shown on Canadian TV from 1952-mid 1963.  Before 1957-58, the broadcasts joined the games during the early middle of The 2nd Period, so no one would stay home to watch the game on TV.  In 57-58 through 1961-62, HNIC TV broadcasts started in the early middle of The 1st Period. In 1962-63, TV broadcasts started just before the beginning.  Of course, we could hear the game from the start on CBC Radio.  CTV started their Wednesday evening broadcasts at the start of The 1963-64 season. Those single night of the week CBC and CTV broadcasts were the only regular national TV NHL hockey broadcasts until 1967-68.  There were CBC Broadcasts of The Memorial Cup(Canadian Major Juniors) and Allan Cup Canadian Senior Amateur) playoffs, and some local regular season broadcasts.  Our Winnipeg WHL (Pro) team didn't have TV broadcasts, but did have local radio broadcasts.  Throughout most of The 1960s, The Montreal Canadians and Toronto Maple Leafs had local TV broadcasts of some home games, and away games at the other Canadian NHL city.

Hockey broadcasts (TV and radio) in the US really were FAR behind the other three major sports. I still can't believe that less than half the NY Rangers games in the 1950s were even on the radio! Radio station was too cheap to send the broadcasters on the road.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #494 on: April 02, 2018, 05:26:23 PM »

I recall  listening to  many Ranger home games  on Sun nites--I recall the good PA  Garden announcer,  Pat  Doyle.

Home  games  on TV? I recall  only away games.


Win Elliot   also  helped out  the great Don Dunphy  on radio of Fri nite  fights. Don was prob the best  ever   fight announcer--it took a long time for  him to get to TV.
My father & I  turned down  the silly  Jimmy Powers on Fri nite fites to listen to  Dunphy.

Thinking about  PA  announcers--John F X  Condon  Knick home  PA  announcer  was best  IMO. But Philly's Dave Zinkoff  was  great also & funny.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #495 on: April 02, 2018, 05:56:10 PM »

Zinkoff would stretch out the names - G-G-G-O-O-O-U-K-K-I-S (Matt) and M-E-L-L-L-C-H-I-I-I-O-N-N-I (Bill) were two of my fav's of "ordinary" players. But for Luke Jackson, he'd just say Jackson really really fast. Fun to listen to.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #496 on: April 02, 2018, 08:04:48 PM »

Loved  the  way  he  introduced   Moses Malone  by  announcing  his HS.  His Wilt  stuff is amazing--but  Julius   ERRRRRRRVING  tops all.
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JoeC
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« Reply #497 on: April 07, 2018, 08:06:54 PM »

Looking through a 1954-55 NY Rangers game program. This stood out to me:

- Highest priced seat in MSG was $4.50; cheapest was 70 cents; game program 25 cents (Today, prices run from like $120-280 a game)

- Prior to the 54-55 season, slashing was not called if you swung your stick at someone and missed; Ted Lindsay was cited as the most notorious slasher in the NHL

- G Gump Worsley was only 5'7, 160; G Johnny Bower was 5'9, 170; C Bones Raleigh played at 5'11, 152; my favorites, Camille Henry, 5'10, 145 and Wally Hergesheimer, 5'8, 155; -- boy, were the players small!!

- RW Nick Mickoski was the NYRs fastest skater and had the hardest shot (I don't even remember him!)

- League had six referees -- Frank Udvari, Red Storey, Jerry Olinski, Ian Morrison, Bill Chadwick and Jack Mehlenbacher -- I recall the first two

- RW Andy Bathgate was sent back to Guelph this season for being "too raw"
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #498 on: April 07, 2018, 09:03:36 PM »

Chadwick was  Albert's  color   man on  Ranger radio  games  in  late  60s.  Albert did Knick games solo.  I forget--what  station?   WHN, Wor?
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JoeC
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« Reply #499 on: April 08, 2018, 08:09:48 AM »

Chadwick was  Albert's  color   man on  Ranger radio  games  in  late  60s.  Albert did Knick games solo.  I forget--what  station?   WHN, Wor?

Late 60s, I was no longer in NY. In the 50s, Rangers radio station was WMGM.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #500 on: April 08, 2018, 02:19:28 PM »

- G Gump Worsley was only 5'7, 160; G Johnny Bower was 5'9, 170; C Bones Raleigh played at 5'11, 152; my favorites, Camille Henry, 5'10, 145 and Wally Hergesheimer, 5'8, 155; -- boy, were the players small!!
- RW Nick Mickoski was the NYRs fastest skater and had the hardest shot (I don't even remember him!)
- League had six referees -- Frank Udvari, Red Storey, Jerry Olinski, Ian Morrison, Bill Chadwick and Jack Mehlenbacher -- I recall the first two
- RW Andy Bathgate was sent back to Guelph this season for being "too raw"

I remember all those players and referees.  Only Jerry Olinski and Jack Mehlenbacher DIDN'T make The Hockey Hall of Fame.
Andy Bathgate was a Winnipegger.  I remember him from Juniors.  He was one of my favourite players.
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JoeC
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« Reply #501 on: April 08, 2018, 06:03:59 PM »

- G Gump Worsley was only 5'7, 160; G Johnny Bower was 5'9, 170; C Bones Raleigh played at 5'11, 152; my favorites, Camille Henry, 5'10, 145 and Wally Hergesheimer, 5'8, 155; -- boy, were the players small!!
- RW Nick Mickoski was the NYRs fastest skater and had the hardest shot (I don't even remember him!)
- League had six referees -- Frank Udvari, Red Storey, Jerry Olinski, Ian Morrison, Bill Chadwick and Jack Mehlenbacher -- I recall the first two
- RW Andy Bathgate was sent back to Guelph this season for being "too raw"

I remember all those players and referees.  Only Jerry Olinski and Jack Mehlenbacher DIDN'T make The Hockey Hall of Fame.
Andy Bathgate was a Winnipegger.  I remember him from Juniors.  He was one of my favourite players.

Think Hergesheimer and Mickoski (the one player I did not recall) were from Winnipeg too? Others as well. You've explained to us before why the Rangers had more than their fair share of Manitobans. Territorial thing, right?  How about those admission prices, huh. 70 cents to sit in the nosebleed seats in New York City. What would that buy you in Manhattan today?
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JoeC
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« Reply #502 on: April 08, 2018, 06:38:43 PM »

Frank Udvari was the ref who got punched in this video, causing Rocket Richard to be suspended, and the Francophone fans to riot four days later in the Forum. Poor Red Storey got to ref the game when the riot occurred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4XPedB9mA
« Last Edit: April 08, 2018, 06:40:47 PM by JoeC » Logged
Robb_K
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« Reply #503 on: April 08, 2018, 11:37:00 PM »

Think Hergesheimer and Mickoski (the one player I did not recall) were from Winnipeg too? Others as well. You've explained to us before why the Rangers had more than their fair share of Manitobans. Territorial thing, right?  How about those admission prices, huh. 70 cents to sit in the nosebleed seats in New York City. What would that buy you in Manhattan today?
Hergesheimer,Mickoski and Bathgate were ALL from Manitoba. But they played for 3 different junior teams.  ALL 6 NHL teams sponsored Junior A teams, AAA teams, Junior B teams in each province (with the exception of Prince Edward Island, which didn't have enough population to support 6 Junior A teams). Only Toronto, Montreal and Boston had teams there, but all 6 had teams in New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland (although, not all were Junior A). ALL 6 sponsored Junior A teams in each of B. C., Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec.  In Quebec, and French Brunswick, Montreal sponsored many, many Junior teams. In Ontario, Toronto sponsored a lot more than others. But, in The Prairie Provinces, and B.C. , and The Maritimes, all 6 had roughly equal representation. It wasn't until 1956, that MY team, The Winnipeg Rangers started their affiliation with The NY Rangers. Before that, they were The Winnipeg Blackhawks. The Manitoba Junior Hockey League usually had at least 2 Winnipeg teams, and often 3. So 3 of the 6 NHL teams often had a team in Winnipeg.  Brandon, Flin Flon, St. Boniface and other towns had teams sponsored by other NHL teams.  When The MJHL had 12 teams, every NHL team had at least 1 farm team in it, but most had 2.  But, yes, Manitoba was a feeder to The Rangers.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #504 on: April 09, 2018, 01:02:17 AM »

Joe  wen Rangers  were  on  WMGM--Jin Gordon I think announced.  Marty Glickman  announced on radio  in the late50s early60s.  Not sure which station-.  Marv Albert may have been the only announcer to  both BB   & hockey--Ranger/Knicks  at MSG.  I'll have to Google  to find which station.  .-
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JoeC
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« Reply #505 on: April 09, 2018, 10:52:40 AM »

Anyone recall Marty Glickman doing High School football games on Saturday mornings on WPIX? Talk about jack of all trades. Nothing was beneath him. Loved New Dorp's Single Wing attack, with the fullback "spinners" and all that!
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #506 on: April 09, 2018, 02:24:18 PM »

never watched--but was that Glickman?  I  left  out  Knicks  he announced.  Then of course  Giants footballin the Tittle  yrs.
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JoeC
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« Reply #507 on: April 09, 2018, 04:32:02 PM »

never watched--but was that Glickman?  I  left  out  Knicks  he announced.  Then of course  Giants footballin the Tittle  yrs.

I can understand why you never watched. 11am on a Sat morning with two high schools? Yep, that WAS Marty doing the broadcast though. I know hecwas a teammate of Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Ran the 400 meters. Also was a football star at Syracuse. Son of Romanian Jewish immigrants. Star athlete at Madison HS in Brooklyn.

Other James Madison alums of note: Cal Abrams, Marvin Miller, Martin Landau, Carole King, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Cousin Brucie Morrow, Frank Torre, and Sonny Werblin.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #508 on: April 09, 2018, 07:23:07 PM »

never watched--but was that Glickman?  I  left  out  Knicks  he announced.  Then of course  Giants footballin the Tittle  yrs.

I can understand why you never watched. 11am on a Sat morning with two high schools? Yep, that WAS Marty doing the broadcast though. I know hecwas a teammate of Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Ran the 400 meters. Also was a football star at Syracuse. Son of Romanian Jewish immigrants. Star athlete at Madison HS in Brooklyn.

Other James Madison alums of note: Cal Abrams, Marvin Miller, Martin Landau, Carole King, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Cousin Brucie Morrow, Frank Torre, and Sonny Werblin.
Frank Torre, but NOT Joe Torre?  Did The Torres move? 
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JoeC
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« Reply #509 on: April 09, 2018, 08:02:02 PM »

never watched--but was that Glickman?  I  left  out  Knicks  he announced.  Then of course  Giants footballin the Tittle  yrs.

I can understand why you never watched. 11am on a Sat morning with two high schools? Yep, that WAS Marty doing the broadcast though. I know hecwas a teammate of Jesse Owens at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. Ran the 400 meters. Also was a football star at Syracuse. Son of Romanian Jewish immigrants. Star athlete at Madison HS in Brooklyn.

Other James Madison alums of note: Cal Abrams, Marvin Miller, Martin Landau, Carole King, Bernie Sanders, Chuck Schumer, Cousin Brucie Morrow, Frank Torre, and Sonny Werblin.
Frank Torre, but NOT Joe Torre?  Did The Torres move? 

Unlike older brother Frank, Joe Torre went to St. Francis Prep, a Catholic HS in Brooklyn. I suspect he went on athletic scholarship because I'm sure St. Francis cost more than the free public HS.
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