Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)

[doctordoowop]

Robb-thanx about  Emery.    I  know   u dont get into  it,  but  mixed  ancestry, like Grant Fuhr.

[JoeC]

Just saw where Ab McDonald died. I recall him as a pretty big guy (for the late 50s when he came up) who as touted as Bert Olmstead's replacement in Montreal..  First four years in the league (starting in '58), he was on the Stanley Cup winner (3x with the Habs, and in '61 with Chicago).

[Robb_K]

Just saw where Ab McDonald died. I recall him as a pretty big guy (for the late 50s when he came up) who as touted as Bert Olmstead's replacement in Montreal..  First four years in the league (starting in '58), he was on the Stanley Cup winner (3x with the Habs, and in '61 with Chicago).

Sorry to hear that.  Yes, my sister told me he passed on.

[JoeC]

Just saw where Ab McDonald died. I recall him as a pretty big guy (for the late 50s when he came up) who as touted as Bert Olmstead's replacement in Montreal..  First four years in the league (starting in '58), he was on the Stanley Cup winner (3x with the Habs, and in '61 with Chicago).

Sorry to hear that.  Yes, my sister told me he passed on.

Another native son of Winnipeg. Think I read somewhere he was the first Captain of both the Penguins and Jets? Could that be right, time-wise?

[Robb_K]

Just saw where Ab McDonald died. I recall him as a pretty big guy (for the late 50s when he came up) who as touted as Bert Olmstead's replacement in Montreal..  First four years in the league (starting in '58), he was on the Stanley Cup winner (3x with the Habs, and in '61 with Chicago).

Sorry to hear that.  Yes, my sister told me he passed on.

Another native son of Winnipeg. Think I read somewhere he was the first Captain of both the Penguins and Jets? Could that be right, time-wise?

Yes, he played on The Penguins in their first year, and for The Jets in their first WHA season.

[Robb_K]

Which were the original expansion teams in The NHL, and when did they come into the league?

[JoeC]

Which were the original expansion teams in The NHL, and when did they come into the league?

I don't recall what year in the late 60s it happened, or who the teams were but ... I believe there were 6 new teams brought into the league in one fell swoop, and they were all in the same Division (with the Original Six in the other Division). I remember as far back as the early 60s, the NHL was afraid the WHL would expand into California and create an opposing "major" league. So, I'm pretty sure a couple original expansion teams had to be in California -- Oakland and LA?

[Robb_K]

Which were the original expansion teams in The NHL, and when did they come into the league?

I don't recall what year in the late 60s it happened, or who the teams were but ... I believe there were 6 new teams brought into the league in one fell swoop, and they were all in the same Division (with the Original Six in the other Division). I remember as far back as the early 60s, the NHL was afraid the WHL would expand into California and create an opposing "major" league. So, I'm pretty sure a couple original expansion teams had to be in California -- Oakland and LA?

There was an expansion BEFORE that one that you describe which occurred in 1967, bringing in St. Louis Blues, L.A., Kings, Oakland Seals, Minnesota North Stars, Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia.  The NHL calls their 6 remaining teams in 1966 "The Original Six".  But that is a misnomer, as there was an expansion before that, as well as individual single teams added in some years.  But, this question only involves the addition of 3 teams during one year, all of which came from the same source.

[doctordoowop]

Esp  in LA   for  J K Cooke.    But after  1st yr--"There are  500,000  Canadians  in SCal--they left Canada b/c  they all hate hockey."

[Robb_K]

Esp  in LA   for  J K Cooke.    But after  1st yr--"There are  500,000  Canadians  in SCal--they left Canada b/c  they all hate hockey."

I remember when Cooke said that.  Funniest thing he ever said.   

[doctordoowop]

Named  his  arena  Forum--after Montreal.

Still  there  --nice music  venue.

[Robb_K]

Named  his  arena  Forum--after Montreal.

Still  there  --nice music  venue.

Yes, he told me so, himself.  And he wasn't even from there! A former door-to-door encyclopedia salesman.  Who'd have guessed?

[JoeC]

Which were the original expansion teams in The NHL, and when did they come into the league?

I don't recall what year in the late 60s it happened, or who the teams were but ... I believe there were 6 new teams brought into the league in one fell swoop, and they were all in the same Division (with the Original Six in the other Division). I remember as far back as the early 60s, the NHL was afraid the WHL would expand into California and create an opposing "major" league. So, I'm pretty sure a couple original expansion teams had to be in California -- Oakland and LA?

There was an expansion BEFORE that one that you describe which occurred in 1967, bringing in St. Louis Blues, L.A., Kings, Oakland Seals, Minnesota North Stars, Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia.  The NHL calls their 6 remaining teams in 1966 "The Original Six".  But that is a misnomer, as there was an expansion before that, as well as individual single teams added in some years.  But, this question only involves the addition of 3 teams during one year, all of which came from the same source.

If the earlier expansion was pre-WW II, you got me. No idea. How did Canadiens "take" the 1967 expansion in that ALL six new teams were in the US. I'm thinking that couldn't have gone over well.

[Robb_K]

Which were the original expansion teams in The NHL, and when did they come into the league?

I don't recall what year in the late 60s it happened, or who the teams were but ... I believe there were 6 new teams brought into the league in one fell swoop, and they were all in the same Division (with the Original Six in the other Division). I remember as far back as the early 60s, the NHL was afraid the WHL would expand into California and create an opposing "major" league. So, I'm pretty sure a couple original expansion teams had to be in California -- Oakland and LA?

There was an expansion BEFORE that one that you describe which occurred in 1967, bringing in St. Louis Blues, L.A., Kings, Oakland Seals, Minnesota North Stars, Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia.  The NHL calls their 6 remaining teams in 1966 "The Original Six".  But that is a misnomer, as there was an expansion before that, as well as individual single teams added in some years.  But, this question only involves the addition of 3 teams during one year, all of which came from the same source.

If the earlier expansion was pre-WW II, you got me. No idea. How did Canadiens "take" the 1967 expansion in that ALL six new teams were in the US. I'm thinking that couldn't have gone over well.

The first NHL expansion WAS before WWII.  The last Contraction was during WWII, when The Brooklyn Americans were dropped in 1942 (Canada had been at war since 1939).  The NHL had 10 teams before they started to contract (eventually moving back down to 6 (so-called "original" teams).  They started contracting during the height of The Great Depression.

If, by Canadiens, you mean Quebeckers, and Francophone New Brunwickers and Ontarians, they didn't take it well, as they wanted new teams in Quebec and Ottawa.  If you mean CanadiAns (ALL of us), the answer would be the same.  In addition to Ottawa and Quebec, we wanted teams in Hamilton, Ont. and one in Saskatchewan (either Saskatoon or Regina, or a Provincial team representing both cities.

[JoeC]

Which were the original expansion teams in The NHL, and when did they come into the league?

I don't recall what year in the late 60s it happened, or who the teams were but ... I believe there were 6 new teams brought into the league in one fell swoop, and they were all in the same Division (with the Original Six in the other Division). I remember as far back as the early 60s, the NHL was afraid the WHL would expand into California and create an opposing "major" league. So, I'm pretty sure a couple original expansion teams had to be in California -- Oakland and LA?

There was an expansion BEFORE that one that you describe which occurred in 1967, bringing in St. Louis Blues, L.A., Kings, Oakland Seals, Minnesota North Stars, Pittsburgh Penguins, Philadelphia.  The NHL calls their 6 remaining teams in 1966 "The Original Six".  But that is a misnomer, as there was an expansion before that, as well as individual single teams added in some years.  But, this question only involves the addition of 3 teams during one year, all of which came from the same source.

If the earlier expansion was pre-WW II, you got me. No idea. How did Canadiens "take" the 1967 expansion in that ALL six new teams were in the US. I'm thinking that couldn't have gone over well.

The first NHL expansion WAS before WWII.  The last Contraction was during WWII, when The Brooklyn Americans were dropped in 1942 (Canada had been at war since 1939).  The NHL had 10 teams before they started to contract (eventually moving back down to 6 (so-called "original" teams).  They started contracting during the height of The Great Depression.

If, by Canadiens, you mean Quebeckers, and Francophone New Brunwickers and Ontarians, they didn't take it well, as they wanted new teams in Quebec and Ottawa.  If you mean CanadiAns (ALL of us), the answer would be the same.  In addition to Ottawa and Quebec, we wanted teams in Hamilton, Ont. and one in Saskatchewan (either Saskatoon or Regina, or a Provincial team representing both cities.

My misspelling, meant ALL Canadians.

I guess Buffalo sorta killed Hamilton's chances. Do you know how the Sabres draw? If they are already, or become, a weakly supported franchise, I guess Hamilton might be a logical city to move to.

[Robb_K]

I guess Buffalo sorta killed Hamilton's chances. Do you know how the Sabres draw? If they are already, or become, a weakly supported franchise, I guess Hamilton might be a logical city to move to.

Buffalo doesn't draw as much as when they had a winning team, but they'll never draw poorly enough to need to move.  Hamilton will eventually get an NHL team, as will Quebec and Saskatchewan.  Metro Toronto and Montreal can both easily support 2 teams.

[Robb_K]

The first NHL multiple team expansion took place in 1927.  Which 3 teams were added, and from where did they come?

[doctordoowop]

What happened with Nordiques--bad crowds?

[Robb_K]

What happened with Nordiques--bad crowds?

The Looney dropped drastically vs. The US Dollar, and a mild recession.  Les Nordiques couldn't compete (pay the high salaries).  The owners sufferred too much in losses, so sold to Denver interests.

[JoeC]

Think the NY Rangers were one of those expansion teams in the mid 20s. No idea who else. Boston?

Who was the Nordiques first coach when they were one of the original WHA franchises (1972?)?

[Robb_K]

Think the NY Rangers were one of those expansion teams in the mid 20s. No idea who else. Boston?

Who was the Nordiques first coach when they were one of the original WHA franchises (1972?)?

Rocket Richard was Les Nordiques first coach.  But he quit after 2 games.

Yes The NY Rangers were one of the 3 American teams added in the late 1920s.  What were the other 2, and from where did they come?

[JoeC]

Think the NY Rangers were one of those expansion teams in the mid 20s. No idea who else. Boston?

Who was the Nordiques first coach when they were one of the original WHA franchises (1972?)?

Rocket Richard was Les Nordiques first coach.  But he quit after 2 games.

Yes The NY Rangers were one of the 3 American teams added in the late 1920s.  What were the other 2, and from where did they come?

What happened with The Rocket"? Gotta be a story there!

I guessed the NY Rangers because I knew the second MSG was built in the mid-20s; figured they needed to fill it with more than boxing and college hoops.

Other additions - and I'm still guessing, not looking up - would be Pittsburgh (because I recall hearing they had an NHL team way back) and Chicago (because it was America's #2 city population-wise back then). Knowing the New England connection to hockey and the size/importance of Boston, I'm still surprised they weren't in the expansion back then.

[Robb_K]

Think the NY Rangers were one of those expansion teams in the mid 20s. No idea who else. Boston?

Who was the Nordiques first coach when they were one of the original WHA franchises (1972?)?

Rocket Richard was Les Nordiques first coach.  But he quit after 2 games.

Yes The NY Rangers were one of the 3 American teams added in the late 1920s.  What were the other 2, and from where did they come?

What happened with The Rocket"? Gotta be a story there!

I guessed the NY Rangers because I knew the second MSG was built in the mid-20s; figured they needed to fill it with more than boxing and college hoops.

Other additions - and I'm still guessing, not looking up - would be Pittsburgh (because I recall hearing they had an NHL team way back) and Chicago (because it was America's #2 city population-wise back then). Knowing the New England connection to hockey and the size/importance of Boston, I'm still surprised they weren't in the expansion back then.

Richard realised he wasn't cut out for coaching after 2 games.  I'm guessing that his high level of demands on his players provoked a rebellion, and he didn't want to be a teacher, psychologist and nursemaid to a bunch of not-so-dedicated-as-he young kids.  The superstars in sports seldom have the personality and attitude needed to coach and teach.  Everything came easily to them, and they don't understand kids having a hard time, and getting discouraged.Yes, Boston, Pittsburgh and The Blackhawks were 3 American teams added to The NHL during the 1920s.  But, they weren't the 3 teams added at the same time, just before the 1926-27 season, coming from another major league (incidentally, the league that played against The NHL for The Stanley Cup).  Boston was added as a single team just before 1924-25.  Pittsburgh was given a franchise just before The 1925-26 season.  What were the other 2 American teams added along with The Blackhawks?

[bklynmike101]

What about the New York Americans? Could that be one?

[Robb_K]

What about the New York Americans? Could that be one?

No, The New York Americans were started at the beginning of 1925-26, after The NHL's Hamilton Tigers went out on strike, it was a franchise shift.

[JoeC]

Thanks, Robb for the Richard back story. I know Maurice grew up in a big family, in extreme poverty during the Depression. So, he didn't have a lot of educational opportunities.  I also know he got a state funeral from the Province of Quebec when he died so clearly was held in high regard.

Beliveau also came from a very large family but, being 10 yrs younger than Maurice, he didn't go through the same economic hardships. Bernie Geoffrion's father owned a successful restaurant in suburban Montreal and his mother could trace her lineage back to the original hundred French settlers of Quebec.  

Boom Boom and the Rocket had very bad tempers while Beliveau was easy going and dignified, on and off-ice. Beliveau died at age 83, Geoffrion plagued by ulcers for decades, died at 73, and the Rocket died of cancer at 78.

Rocket's younger brother (Henri, the Pocket Rocket) was 15 years younger and much smaller than Maurice. He's still with us at age 82. A third Richard brother, Claude (2 yrs younger than Henri) would've made the NHL if there had been more than six teams. His big detriment was he was a terrible skater -- which is odd because Henri was always one of the very best skaters. What kind of skater was Maurice? Certainly not as good as Howe?

[doctordoowop]

Recall  Geffreon from the 70s  Miller  commercials.

[JoeC]

Recall  Geffreon from the 70s  Miller  commercials.

Yeah. Coach of the NY Rangers at one point!

[doctordoowop]

I loved  Beliveau--RIP--1st NHL  guy to be on SI  cover-58.   Truly think he could have been PM of Canada.  Some of his spoken videos on  YT  show him tobe a great gentleman.

[Robb_K]

The answer to the question of which 3 NHL teams were added in the first multiple franchise expansion is:  New York Rangers, Chicago Black Hawks, and Detroit Falcons (later changed to Red Wings. The Boston Bruins were added in 1924, Pittsburgh Pirates in 1925, and The Hamilton Tigers were moved to New York, to become The New York Americans in 1925.  The Montreal Maroons and Ottawa Senators had been original NHL teams.  In 1934, Ottawa moved to St. Louis, to become The St. Louis Eagles.  Also n 1934,  The Pirates moved to Philadelphia, to become The Philadelphia Quakers.  Both teams folded after 1 year.  In 1938, The Montreal Maroons folded.  In 1941, The New York Americans moved to Brooklyn for their last year.  After 1941-42, there were only 6 teams left in The NHL.