Hockey Thread (especially from our youth)

[JoeC]

The answer to the question of which 3 NHL teams were added in the first multiple franchise expansion is:  New York Rangers, Chicago Black Hawks, and Detroit Falcons (later changed to Red Wings. The Boston Bruins were added in 1924, Pittsburgh Pirates in 1925, and The Hamilton Tigers were moved to New York, to become The New York Americans in 1925.  The Montreal Maroons and Ottawa Senators had been original NHL teams.  In 1934, Ottawa moved to St. Louis, to become The St. Louis Eagles.  Also n 1934,  The Pirates moved to Philadelphia, to become The Philadelphia Quakers.  Both teams folded after 1 year.  In 1938, The Montreal Maroons folded.  In 1941, The New York Americans moved to Brooklyn for their last year.  After 1941-42, there were only 6 teams left in The NHL.

Interesting. I'm still a bit surprised that Boston got the first U.S. franchise in the league. Over NY and Chicago, both much bigger cities.

Erik Karlsson to San Jose. Think that makes the Sharks a favorite to win the Cup? Haven't seen any Vegas odds.

[Robb_K]

The answer to the question of which 3 NHL teams were added in the first multiple franchise expansion is:  New York Rangers, Chicago Black Hawks, and Detroit Falcons (later changed to Red Wings. The Boston Bruins were added in 1924, Pittsburgh Pirates in 1925, and The Hamilton Tigers were moved to New York, to become The New York Americans in 1925.  The Montreal Maroons and Ottawa Senators had been original NHL teams.  In 1934, Ottawa moved to St. Louis, to become The St. Louis Eagles.  Also n 1934,  The Pirates moved to Philadelphia, to become The Philadelphia Quakers.  Both teams folded after 1 year.  In 1938, The Montreal Maroons folded.  In 1941, The New York Americans moved to Brooklyn for their last year.  After 1941-42, there were only 6 teams left in The NHL.

Interesting. I'm still a bit surprised that Boston got the first U.S. franchise in the league. Over NY and Chicago, both much bigger cities.

Erik Karlsson to San Jose. Think that makes the Sharks a favorite to win the Cup? Haven't seen any Vegas odds.

Boston has always been a hockey town (as all New England, Michigan, and Minnesota have been hockey-mad).  Chicago and New York have never been hockey towns.  When I moved from Winnipeg to Chicago, I could not find a junior hockey programme even up to the level of the better casual recreational leagues in Canada.  I had to choose to move to USA with my parents, or stay in Winnipeg, and continue my hockey career prep, while living with my aunt and uncle (who, it turns out, followed us to Chicago a few years later).  It was a really tough decision at that time.  But, I'm Jewish, and expected an academic career rather than a hockey career, so, I came with my parents.
Getting Karlsson certainly hasn't hurt The Sharks,.....YET.  They should be one of the top 6 favourites.  But having all that money tied up in their defence might cause cap problems within a couple years that will leave their forward corps weaker by losing a top player, or having nothing much after their top few.

[JoeC]

Pretty clear that the Sharks are taking a "win it this year" approach. All or nothing! As you say, potential big money problems down the road and they already have traded off their #1 pick in the next draft. They went hard after Tavares but lost out. Who would you rather have had -- Karlsson or Tavares?

Thinking of Tavares and his being a native of the Toronto metro area, which of Canada's two biggest cities (Toronto and Montreal) has produced the most top NHL talent? Just your "feel." Toronto has a million more people so it's a bit of an unfair comparison.

[Robb_K]

Pretty clear that the Sharks are taking a "win it this year" approach. All or nothing! As you say, potential big money problems down the road and they already have traded off their #1 pick in the next draft. They went hard after Tavares but lost out. Who would you rather have had -- Karlsson or Tavares?

Thinking of Tavares and his being a native of the Toronto metro area, which of Canada's two biggest cities (Toronto and Montreal) has produced the most top NHL talent? Just your "feel." Toronto has a million more people so it's a bit of an unfair comparison.

I think it depends upon how one defines City and Metro area, and general area.  I think that Montreal's "general area" produced more good hockey players from 1890-1950, and Toronto's general area has produced more from 1950n to today.  But, then Toronto didn't pass Montreal in population until about 1980.

[bklynmike101]

Mikita jersey from 1960 just hammered down at auction for $26K and change. Then and now, B. Hawks had truly gorgeous jerseys. I know Stan passed a few weeks back.....fierce and talented player....always destroyed my Rangers...but highly respected by Ranger fans

[Robb_K]

Mikita jersey from 1960 just hammered down at auction for $26K and change. Then and now, B. Hawks had truly gorgeous jerseys. I know Stan passed a few weeks back.....fierce and talented player....always destroyed my Rangers...but highly respected by Ranger fans

I was a Blackhawks fan from 1951 to today, and Stan was my favourite player, along with Glenn Hall (even more than Bobby Hull).  Stan was a nice man, a great sportsman, gentleman, and credit to his community, and Chicago, in general.  He was always well-respected by everyone.  Yes, The Hawks have always had the best Jersey in sports.  Glad The Native American rights groups haven't forced a team name change.  The team was named after The Blackhawk Division in The US Armed forces from WWI.  I can't remember if it was The army, but I'd guess so.  There was no US Air Force at that time (1926).

[doctordoowop]

I heard  Chief Blackhawk in 1926 gave his permission.  I agree-have white, red & black jerseys--always get a good response.

[JoeC]

Man, how the once-mighty Red Wings have fallen. No defense at all. Could be the worst team in the NHL this season.

[Robb_K]

Man, how the once-mighty Red Wings have fallen. No defense at all. Could be the worst team in the NHL this season.

The rules have recently changed again, to make it really difficult to play defence.  Even teams with stacked rosters of defencemen, like St. Louis, Washington, and Nashville, are having trouble keeping the puck out of their own nets.

[JoeC]

Agree. Washington's gonna struggle. Tom Wilson, on a 20 game suspension, is the physical-play heart and soul of that team, they have no #2 net minder with Grubauer gone, and key face-off man and even-strength defender Jay Beagle is now with the Canucks. Just based on age, Kuznetsov has to prove he can be at least close to Ovechkn's impact, at least in scoring goals. Not to mention replacing Barry Trotz with a rookie coach.

[doctordoowop]

Robb-a small lectur  epls. How have rules  recently changed?

[Robb_K]

Robb-a small lectur  epls. How have rules  recently changed?

I don't feel up to doing the research to look up the details of all the recent rules that have been put in to help offence.  But the main effect on limiting the defences has been more the way penalties are being called than new rules put in place to assist offence.  Defenders are no longer allowed to clutch and grab players with or without the puck, they are no longer allowed to push over, crosscheck poke with their sicks, hop on th backs of, and generally beat upon offensive players in or near the goal crease they are defending.  This allows a LOT of tip-ins, redirections, effective screens of the goaltender's view of the puck and its release, allows a LOT more breakaways, and open players all over the ice.  On faceoffs, the offensive team inside the defender's zone, gets to move his stick first on faceoffs (e.g. IF the defending player moves his stick first, the faceoff is stopped, and that player is waved out of the circle.  If 2 defending players in a row move their stick first, that team gets a 2-minute penalty.  This ensures that the offence get possession in the offensive zone around 78-80% of all faceoffs there.  That means that the offences have possession in the O-Zone much more than in previous years.  The 2 line offside pass is no longer in effect, thereby allowing teams to send forwards way ahead of the play (sleeper) to be wide open for extremely long lead passes. which are retrieved by the sleeper,  with no defender within several meters, who can skate in on the goalie, unopposed.  There were other new rules put in in recent years.  I just can't remember them offhand.

[doctordoowop]

Thanx  robb--but is  a 6-4  game better than  a 2-1?

How about  delay of game for knocking puck into  stands? 

I recall  whistle blew if puck was  pinned against the  boards--no more.

Lastlly tho--did Doug Harvey  &  Bill Gadsby  use their bodies/faces  to  block  shots?   Dont recall  any of that.

[Robb_K]

Thanx  Robb--but is  a 6-4  game better than  a 2-1?  How about  delay of game for knocking puck into  stands?  I recall whistle blew if puck was  pinned against the  boards--no more.
Lastly tho--did Doug Harvey  &  Bill Gadsby  use their bodies/faces  to  block  shots?   Don't recall  any of that.

Delay of game penalty has been around for over 20 years.  Holding off the whistle until the ref can actually see that the puck is frozen, has helped add to scoring, but not all that much.  During the 1950s, a few defencemen blocked shots, occasionally, but nothing like the amounts of blocks and resultant injuries that happen now.

[JoeC]

Saw many Rangers games in the mid to late 50s. I don't recall any players "laying out" on the ice to block shots like they do now. Maybe it was a matter of thin padding compared to what they wear now. Still, amazes me today how today's players can routinely take a slap shot to their stretched out body. Gotta really hurt!

[doctordoowop]

Sydney  Crosby  took one to the face.

[Robb_K]

Saw many Rangers games in the mid to late 50s. I don't recall any players "laying out" on the ice to block shots like they do now. Maybe it was a matter of thin padding compared to what they wear now. Still, amazes me today how today's players can routinely take a slap shot to their stretched out body. Gotta really hurt!

Yes, and they routinely get broken bones from getting hit where the padding is thin, or on the arm beyond the glove and on the ankle.  I played from 1953-1964.  I never would have thrown my body in front of a hard shot (especially a slapper).  I already had 4 shoulder dislocations on each arm, plus a torn meniscus, and two missing teeth (good thing dental implants came along). 

[Robb_K]

Pretty clear that the Sharks are taking a "win it this year" approach. All or nothing! As you say, potential big money problems down the road and they already have traded off their #1 pick in the next draft. They went hard after Tavares but lost out. Who would you rather have had -- Karlsson or Tavares?

Thinking of Tavares and his being a native of the Toronto metro area, which of Canada's two biggest cities (Toronto and Montreal) has produced the most top NHL talent? Just your "feel." Toronto has a million more people so it's a bit of an unfair comparison.

Tavares is a home favourite.  Karlsson is a furriner.  If I were a Torontan, I'd probably have watched Tavares' whole Juniors career, and would likely have wanted him over Karlsson.  The latter is a fair bit less than average on defence, but he makes a team's offence go like almost no other D-man.  Having two top-notch offensive D-men on two separate shifts means that The Sharks can put extreme pressure on their opponents for 80% of a game, causing their defenders to tire, which will lead to lots of goals.  But, being so offensively-oriented, they will also give up lots of goals.

[JoeC]

Some interesting hockey facts/trivia question or two from the 1950/60s/70s (thanks to various hockey publications):

- Montreal’s power play was so good in the 1950s that in 1956 the NHL instituted a new rule, ending a team’s power play once a goal was scored. Prior to this, Montreal would often score two or even three goals over the course of one power play.

- Jean Beliveau won 10 Stanley Cups over the decades of the 50s and 60s.

- “Jesus Saves, Esposito Scores on the Rebound,” was a popular bumper sticker in New England during Esposito’s tenure with the Bruins. Actually, that WAS the way Phil scored a ton of his goals.

- Who was known as the "Four Story Goalie"?

- What is the "Gordie Howe Hat Trick?" And, no, not the typical three goals.

[bklynmike101]

Howe hat rick was something like goal, assist, and penalty. Or fighting major, goal, and assist. Still remember him dismembering NYR tough guy Orland Kurtenbach. And the opening faceoff puck had not even quite dropped yet! 

[JoeC]

Howe hat rick was something like goal, assist, and penalty. Or fighting major, goal, and assist. Still remember him dismembering NYR tough guy Orland Kurtenbach. And the opening faceoff puck had not even quite dropped yet! 

Good enough. I always heard "goal, assist and a fight."

Howe dismembered a lot of guys. Kurtenbach was definitely a tough guy.

[Robb_K]

Howe hat rick was something like goal, assist, and penalty. Or fighting major, goal, and assist. Still remember him dismembering NYR tough guy Orland Kurtenbach. And the opening faceoff puck had not even quite dropped yet! 

Good enough. I always heard "goal, assist and a fight."

Howe dismembered a lot of guys. Kurtenbach was definitely a tough guy.

Goal, assist and fight is correct.

[JoeC]

"Four Story Goalie" -- One of several nicknames for Ken Dryden, who stood 6'4 without skates.

Two more trivia questions:

Something I had forgotten about Dryden: He was first drafted in 1964 by the Boston Bruins but did not want to play for them (not sure why). So, he was traded with a player who never played an NHL game to Montreal for two other guys who also never played in the NHL. But, he never reported to the Canadiens, choosing instead to go to Cornell. Didn't make his NHL debut until 6 years after being drafted (1970).

1. Anyone know two more nicknames Dryden went by?

2. Two Cornell players have had their jerseys retired by the university. Both longtime NHL stars. One is Dryden. The other one graduated in the mid 80s and played 20 years in the NHL for multiple teams. Who is he?
Clue: One of only 11 NHL players to win the Stanley Cup with three different teams.

[doctordoowop]

Jean Beliveau  scored 3  power play goals in about 45 seconds.  Reason rule was changed. And helped get him on SI cover before Rocket & Howe.--1958.


Typical  Judge game--HR,  couple k's,walk or 2.

[bklynmike101]

Joe,

Since no one else responded....I had privately taken a shot that the Cornell 3-time Stanley Cup winner might be Adam Oates. Then I cheated and looked it up. Not Oates although he apparently was a college hockey star for RPI in Albany/Troy (not too far from Rochester where I did some of my schooling, Cornell having admitted me but not providing sufficient funding).  The correct answer is......well, maybe I should refrain in case someone (Rob?) wants to give it an honest shot.

[JoeC]

Joe,

Since no one else responded....I had privately taken a shot that the Cornell 3-time Stanley Cup winner might be Adam Oates. Then I cheated and looked it up. Not Oates although he apparently was a college hockey star for RPI in Albany/Troy (not too far from Rochester where I did some of my schooling, Cornell having admitted me but not providing sufficient funding).  The correct answer is......well, maybe I should refrain in case someone (Rob?) wants to give it an honest shot.

Mike, I'll let it lie another day for the other famous Cornell grad.

Other Dryden nicknames were "Giraffe" (my favorite) and "Monster." He was a tall goalie at 6'4.

Robb, were there other tall goaltenders before Dryden? My recollection is they were generally short, quick-reflex guys. If Dryden was the first tall guy, guess he'd he the Cal Ripken of the NHL in the way Cal was seen to change the prototype of what a SS could look like. (Actually, he wasn't the first tall, famous SS but people forget Marty Marion, who at 6'2 was 2 inches shorter than Cal but very tall for a SS in his time).

[bklynmike101]

The name and team escapes me but the other day I read about a new NHL goalie who stands 6'7". Good gracious!

[Robb_K]

Joe,

Since no one else responded....I had privately taken a shot that the Cornell 3-time Stanley Cup winner might be Adam Oates. Then I cheated and looked it up. Not Oates although he apparently was a college hockey star for RPI in Albany/Troy (not too far from Rochester where I did some of my schooling, Cornell having admitted me but not providing sufficient funding).  The correct answer is......well, maybe I should refrain in case someone (Rob?) wants to give it an honest shot.

Sorry, I don't know much about US college hockey (virtually NOTHING about The Ivy League, and the East Coast schools, in general).  I did follow The WCHA and CCHA during the '60s and '70s.  I followed U. of Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State, Michigan Tech, St. Louis U, Denver U., Colorado, Alaska, Wisconsin, Lake Superior State, North Dakota, and the rest of the Minnesota schools.  But I know nothing about the eastern schools, and not a lot about the western schools after 1980.

[JoeC]

Other Cornell great to have his number retired by the school is Joe Nieuwendyk, from Oshawa. 

A few other Ivy League hockey players to make the NHL, beside Dryden and Nieuwendyk:

Matt Moulson (Cornell)
Douglas Murray (Cornell)
Ben Lovejoy (Dartmouth)
Ted Donato (Harvard)
Don Sweeney (Harvard)
Alex Killorn (Harvard)
Todd Simpson (Brown)
Curt Bennett (Brown)
Mark Holden (Brown)

[doctordoowop]

Robb-not sure if i answered  your comment about NY  not being a hockey town--I strongly  disagree.Where else  in the world  do THREE  pro hockey teams play within  30  miles  [now  just 10]  Islanders,Rangers & Devils?

Hell, Canada  couldn't  even  support Montreal & Nordiques.

Forget where  Winnipeg Jets  moved  to?