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doctordoowop
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« Reply #660 on: December 02, 2018, 02:51:05 PM »

I  had to  cheat & look  it up.    Jets moved to  Phoenix & then  Thrashers  became the  new W. Jets
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #661 on: December 03, 2018, 12:26:48 AM »

The name and team escapes me but the other day I read about a new NHL goalie who stands 6'7". Good gracious!

Mikko Koskinen - Edmonton Oilers Goalie - officially listed at a mere 6' 6".
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Robb_K
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« Reply #662 on: December 03, 2018, 12:55:48 AM »

Robb-not sure if i answered  your comment about NY  not being a hockey town--I strongly  disagree.Where else  in the world  do THREE  pro hockey teams play within  30  miles  [now  just 10]  Islanders,Rangers & Devils?
Hell, Canada  couldn't  even  support Montreal & Nordiques.
Forget where  Winnipeg Jets  moved  to?
When did I say that "New York isn't a hockey town"Huh  I don't remember EVER saying or writing that.  I DO remember writing that i know next to nothing about US college hockey, and what I DO know is all about The WCHA (Western Collegiate Hockey Association).  THAT is because I lived in The Midwest (southern Manitoba and Chicago)(very close to Minnesota and North Dakota, and also to Michigan and Wisconsin).  That wasn't because I look down on Eastern US collegiate hockey.  The New England and New York schools win The frozen Four tournament about half the time.  I don't remember EVER commenting on this forum about whether or not New York is a hockey town.  Montreal supported The Canadiens and Maroons for many years, and also supported The Junior Canadiens, whose tickets cost as much as pro league tickets.  The New York Metro Area had 1more than 10 times the population of Metro Montreal.  So, I don't think that is a fair comparison.  Quebec is quite a distance from Montreal.  In any case, I never stated or meant to imply that people in The New York Metro Area wouldn't pay to see pro hockey games.  Not sure where you got that idea.  College hockey is not a scholarship sport in Canada.  So all the best college age hockey players in Canada who want to further their hockey careers, but also want to attend university at the same time, get scholarships to US colleges. Being a Midwesterner, most of the people I knew or watched growing up, who played US hockey, played on WCHA teams.  And, I could also watch that league's games in Winnipeg and Chicago.  But, I was only interested in US college hockey when its teams had one or more players on it that had already been drafted by one of my favourite NHL teams (Jets, Blackhawks, Blues), OR it had a player who I knew from Winnipeg.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #663 on: December 03, 2018, 01:33:33 AM »



Robb, were there other tall goaltenders before Dryden? My recollection is they were generally short, quick-reflex guys.

You are correct.  Most goaltenders in the old days were short and very athletic.  I remember pictures of Lorne Chabot, who looked tall.  But, he was only 6ft1.  But most hockey players back in those days went from 5ft5 to 5ft11, and most goalies were 5ft9 and down.  The only tall goalie I can remember from the 1950s was Al Rollins.  But he was only 6ft2.  From modern times I only remember Cesare Maniago, John Davidson, and Olie Kolzig (all 6ft3), and Mike Liut, and Sean Burke - I think he was 6ft4.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 01:45:00 PM by Robb_K » Logged

JoeC
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« Reply #664 on: December 03, 2018, 09:26:57 AM »

Random rhetorical questions/comments and a trivia question thrown in:

- Worst goalie of all time? Michel Belhumeur who played 35 games in net for the expansion Washington Caps (I saw most of them) without recording a single win.

- Is Bobby Carpenter the most "hyped" (huge publicity before ever playing an NHL game) American-born player ever?

   - Bobby was the second American-born player drafted in the 1st Round of the NHL draft. Who was the first?
   - Scored 320 goals in his career (172 in his first 5 seasons, averaging 34+ a season). Scored 53 goals in '85; then, his career fizzled. Anyone have any idea why? Had a prickly personality but so did other players who, unlike Carpenter, are in the NHL HoF.
    
- You know how in baseball, "they" always say superstar players don't make good managers. That true in hockey? Other than Toe Blake, are there other exceptions of HoF players becoming hugely successful coaches too?

- As for short goalies, in the 8th grade I was 5'7. That year, I once stood next to Gump Worsley on the street outside the old Madison Square Garden on 8th and 49th, waiting for the light to change. Without his skates on, we were the exact same height. He had me by 50 pounds though.

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bklynmike101
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« Reply #665 on: December 03, 2018, 12:15:21 PM »

Vic Hadfield just had his jersey "retired" by the NYR. Reminded me of "my guys" - the likes of Goyette-Hadfield-Nevin-Ratelle-Gilbert-Ingarfield-Howell-Brown-Seling-Nilsson.
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JoeC
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« Reply #666 on: December 03, 2018, 12:56:24 PM »

Vic Hadfield just had his jersey "retired" by the NYR. Reminded me of "my guys" - the likes of Goyette-Hadfield-Nevin-Ratelle-Gilbert-Ingarfield-Howell-Brown-Seling-Nilsson.

Vic was one of my favorites. By rights, he shoulda been a Chicago Black Hawk as he came up totally in their system. Rangers claimed him when left unprotected by Chicago. He became the NYR Captain after Bob Nevin. Camille Henry wore the C before Nevin, and Bathgate, Red Sullivan and Harry Howell before him.

Red was another of my favorite Rangers. Like Hadfield, he had Chicago roots. Almost killed when Doug Harvey speared him.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #667 on: December 04, 2018, 12:25:05 PM »

Loved all 'dem guys when I first discovered hockey circa 1965 (the last of the big 4 sports that I "adopted"). Red Sullivan a little before my time. But Bathgate, Camille (in his 2nd iteration), were known and followed. The only guy I remember having a particular distaste for was one Larry Jeffrey. Jeffrey was one of the first to don a helmet, and was a non-scoring forward (pointless no?). We were not kind to him whenever he appeared on the ice at MSG, though I shant (shant?) repeat what we called him.  Grin
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JoeC
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« Reply #668 on: December 04, 2018, 01:57:25 PM »

Loved all 'dem guys when I first discovered hockey circa 1965 (the last of the big 4 sports that I "adopted"). Red Sullivan a little before my time. But Bathgate, Camille (in his 2nd iteration), were known and followed. The only guy I remember having a particular distaste for was one Larry Jeffrey. Jeffrey was one of the first to don a helmet, and was a non-scoring forward (pointless no?). We were not kind to him whenever he appeared on the ice at MSG, though I shant (shant?) repeat what we called him.  Grin

Mike, you and I are 10 years apart in when we started following Rangers' hockey. I started with the 1954-55 season (I had just turned 11 when that season began). By the time you started in 1965, I was well into my college years and long gone from NY. No hockey or much coverage of the NHL in Miami in those days. My "prime years" following the Rangers were 1954-62.  

Since I lived in the DC area, I adopted the Washington Caps when they became an expansion team in the early 70s. Still always rooted for the Rangers except when playing the Caps. And, I must say, my passion for the Rangers in that 1954-62 period was never equaled by any similar passion for the Caps. I'm sure that has to do with the age I was at the time. Just like my 1950s/early 60s Yankee heroes (and other MLB heroes like Nellie Fox) was not the same with later players/teams. Something magic about youth and heroes.
 
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 09:35:50 PM by JoeC » Logged
bklynmike101
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« Reply #669 on: December 04, 2018, 06:21:50 PM »

Joe,

Agree completely - nothing like the enthusiasm of youth when first discovering a sport (likely other things as well). For me, it was baseball first mid-way through the '59 season (age 7) ; grainy B&W Yankee telecasts with Mel Allen, Phil Rizutto, and Red Barber, followed by the '59 WS between the Larry Sherry/Chuck Essegian Dodgers and your Nellie Fox/Big Klu Chisox. NBA and NFL interest followed shortly thereafter (circa '60-'61) but NHL came much later - Marv Albert and Win Elliot. I can still sing the Shaeffer, Rheingold, and Ballantine songs by heart. Enjoyed your tales of the earlier NYR and later D.C. Caps.

If Fox struck out  as many as 20 times in a year (which he NEVER did despite 600+ AB's), he'd have been beside himself. Talk about ability to "handle the bat"!
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JoeC
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« Reply #670 on: December 04, 2018, 09:47:03 PM »

Mike, I think we "overlap" much more in baseball than hockey.

Can you really remember those beer songs. Only one I recall a few stanzas of is the Rheingold song (and I wouldn't bet my life on that). Something like "My beer is Rheingold the dry beer, think of Rheingold whenever you buy beer (or was it "try beer"). It's not bitter, not sweet, it's the extra dry treat ... Is that right?

Were you too young to recall the Miss Rheingold contest. All the grocery, candy and liqour stores had ballots with contestants' names on them. A bigger poster held the tearaway ballots with the girls' pictures on that. You marked your ballot and voted right there at the store.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #671 on: December 05, 2018, 12:01:51 AM »


- You know how in baseball, "they" always say superstar players don't make good managers. That true in hockey? Other than Toe Blake, are there other exceptions of HoF players becoming hugely successful coaches too?

ABSOLUTELY!  for superstars with super skills and super "hockey sense", everything comes easy, so much so, that they often don't even know how they perform certain feats, they just do it naturally, without paying attention to how they go about doing it.  They don;t have patience with less talented players, and can't understand why they can't pick up what they are trying to teach, right away.  Wayne Gretzky was a horrible failure as an NHL coach (Phoenix).  Bobby and Brett Hull would have been terrible coaches, so would Pavel Bure and Rocket Richard, so would Federov.       
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JoeC
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« Reply #672 on: December 05, 2018, 09:48:02 AM »

Robb, since you followed the WHL for years, assume you're good with Seattle getting an NHL team? Has it always been a good hockey town? Sort of a natural rival for Vancouver, no?
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #673 on: December 05, 2018, 12:13:15 PM »


- You know how in baseball, "they" always say superstar players don't make good managers. That true in hockey? Other than Toe Blake, are there other exceptions of HoF players becoming hugely successful coaches too?

ABSOLUTELY!  for superstars with super skills and super "hockey sense", everything comes easy, so much so, that they often don't even know how they perform certain feats, they just do it naturally, without paying attention to how they go about doing it.  They don;t have patience with less talented players, and can't understand why they can't pick up what they are trying to teach, right away.  Wayne Gretzky was a horrible failure as an NHL coach (Phoenix).  Bobby and Brett Hull would have been terrible coaches, so would Pavel Bure and Rocket Richard, so would Federov.       

I believe the same is true in all sports - for precisely the reasons you outlined (e.g. see Magic Johnson).
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #674 on: December 05, 2018, 12:19:36 PM »

Joe,

Yup, I remember the lyrics - at least approximately. You got them right - at least approximately. I even sang them to my kids when they were small. One of them still knows "Baseball and Ballantine (x2). All across the nation. What a combination. Baseball.....and Ballantine b..e...e...r). As for Miss Rheingold, sure I remember - posters plastered all over the subway of which I was a frequent patron as my family had no car.
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JoeC
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« Reply #675 on: December 05, 2018, 02:35:11 PM »


ABSOLUTELY!  for superstars with super skills and super "hockey sense", everything comes easy, so much so, that they often don't even know how they perform certain feats, they just do it naturally, without paying attention to how they go about doing it.  They don;t have patience with less talented players, and can't understand why they can't pick up what they are trying to teach, right away.  Wayne Gretzky was a horrible failure as an NHL coach (Phoenix).  Bobby and Brett Hull would have been terrible coaches, so would Pavel Bure and Rocket Richard, so would Federov.       

I believe the same is true in all sports - for precisely the reasons you outlined (e.g. see Magic Johnson).

So, Toe Blake is very much the exception. Made the 100 Greatest NHL Players of all time, NHL HoF as a Palyer, and has gotta be at the top for coaches' success (8 Stanley Cup wins coaching Montreal). Quite a parlay!
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jp05
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« Reply #676 on: December 05, 2018, 04:39:28 PM »

As a alum of RPI (aka Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) and the father of alum (Jon Pirrong) who played for RPI n the mid 90's, Adam Oates is from RPI, He was on the great 1985 team that won the NCAA championship. That team had a number of players who went on to the NHL and various other pro leagues. The goalie, Darren Puppa, played for many years. D-man Ken Hammond, forward John Carter and another forward who I can't recall also had nice NHL careers.

JP05
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JoeC
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« Reply #677 on: December 05, 2018, 05:11:29 PM »

jp, Adam Oates, of course, was a great NHL player. I remember Darren with the Sabres and Lightning.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #678 on: December 05, 2018, 08:29:17 PM »

Robb, since you followed the WHL for years, assume you're good with Seattle getting an NHL team? Has it always been a good hockey town? Sort of a natural rival for Vancouver, no?

Yes, it's great to see Seattle get an NHL team.  They definitely are a natural rival for Vancouver.  The people there supported The Totems very well for many, many years.
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JoeC
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« Reply #679 on: December 05, 2018, 09:06:07 PM »

Robb, since you followed the WHL for years, assume you're good with Seattle getting an NHL team? Has it always been a good hockey town? Sort of a natural rival for Vancouver, no?

Yes, it's great to see Seattle get an NHL team.  They definitely are a natural rival for Vancouver.  The people there supported The Totems very well for many, many years.

Be interesting to see what the team's name is gonna be. Here's the Vegas odds:

Emeralds +450
Totems +600
Rainiers +650
Evergreens +800
Kraken +800
Renegades +800
Sea Lions +800
Firebirds +950
Cougars +1000
Eagles +1000
Seals +1100
Whales +1100
Sockeyes +1500
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Robb_K
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« Reply #680 on: December 17, 2018, 07:59:39 PM »

Robb, since you followed the WHL for years, assume you're good with Seattle getting an NHL team? Has it always been a good hockey town? Sort of a natural rival for Vancouver, no?

Yes, it's great to see Seattle get an NHL team.  They definitely are a natural rival for Vancouver.  The people there supported The Totems very well for many, many years.

Be interesting to see what the team's name is gonna be. Here's the Vegas odds:

Emeralds +450
Totems +600
Rainiers +650
Evergreens +800
Kraken +800
Renegades +800
Sea Lions +800
Firebirds +950
Cougars +1000
Eagles +1000
Seals +1100
Whales +1100
Sockeyes +1500
I hope it will be "The Totems".  That's how I remember their great WHL teams our Winnipeg Warriors would face.
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JoeC
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« Reply #681 on: December 17, 2018, 09:14:06 PM »

Read an article on the Totems' history. Apparently, their greatest player was "Golden Guyle" Fielder, a left shooting center iceman. Guyle, born in Idaho but growing up in Sakastchewan, played 22 years in the minors, never making it to the NHL. Scored and assisted alot.

Was WHL MVP a half dozen times back in the 60s. Wonder what was lacking in his game? I know there were only the six NHL teams but ... this man's stats make it a bit surprising he never got a call-up.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #682 on: December 17, 2018, 11:19:56 PM »

Read an article on the Totems' history. Apparently, their greatest player was "Golden Guyle" Fielder, a left shooting center iceman. Guyle, born in Idaho but growing up in Sakastchewan, played 22 years in the minors, never making it to the NHL. Scored and assisted alot.
Was WHL MVP a half dozen times back in the 60s. Wonder what was lacking in his game? I know there were only the six NHL teams but ... this man's stats make it a bit surprising he never got a call-up.
I saw him play a fair amount of games.  He was one of the best passers (set-up men) that ever played the game.  He was a little too slow for the 6-team NHL.  Had the 6-team NHL expansion occurred 10 years before, he'd have played some in The NHL.  By the time there was room for him, he was already in his mid 30s, and an established star, making almost as much money as he'd make if he were bottom-feeder marginal NHLer.  He had a family in Seattle, and had been there over a decade.  He was a big star in that city.  Just like the 1920s-40s P.C.Lers, The Western Hockey League had its well-paid stars, who gave its teams stability, and, thus, chances to win championships.  Those owners needed to pay their stars a lot of money, but it was worth the chance to win.  Teams that had the most NHL prospects, had a lot player shuffling, and, thus, unstable forward lines, and unstable  defence pairings.  Players have to play together to know each other's tendencies, to benefit from teamwork.  It was a better (stable) life for them, their families, their teams, and the team's owners for them to give up their NHL dreams, and enjoy playing a boys' game for 20 years, doing what they love, and, possibly winning championships, having carried their team along with them.
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JoeC
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« Reply #683 on: December 18, 2018, 09:11:50 AM »

Thanks, Robb. You'd have thought that he might have gotten in touch with someone who could work with him on improving his skating/speed. But, as you say, being a well paid WHL MVP and hometown favorite was clearly better than being at the bottom of an NHL roster.

Did NHL teams have "healthy scratches" for games like they do now? I know they carried a backup goaltender but did everyone else on the roster dress for every game, unless injured?

Only other Totem name that I recognized from the NHL was Bill Dineen. He played for many years in the WHL after his NHL career ended.

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Robb_K
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« Reply #684 on: December 18, 2018, 02:54:10 PM »

Thanks, Robb. You'd have thought that he might have gotten in touch with someone who could work with him on improving his skating/speed. But, as you say, being a well paid WHL MVP and hometown favorite was clearly better than being at the bottom of an NHL roster.

Did NHL teams have "healthy scratches" for games like they do now? I know they carried a backup goaltender but did everyone else on the roster dress for every game, unless injured?

Only other Totem name that I recognized from the NHL was Bill Dineen. He played for many years in the WHL after his NHL career ended.

No, there were no "healthy scratches" in the old days.  Teams had rosters of 20 players, who ALL dressed for each game, but, often 3 players (2 forwards and a defenceman didn't get into the game unless someone was hurt.  At first, their were no backup goalies.  When a goalie got hurt in mid game, he continued playing unless the injury was too serious.  In that case, a teammate would play goalie, or one of the assistant coaches would put on the pads.  Later, there was one back-up goaltender, who was NOT taken on the road.  At that time, the home team would loan their backup to the injured team.  Before they had back-ups on the roster, The 6 NHL teams usually had afarm team nearby in The AHL, IHL, USHL and/or Canadian Senior (Semi-Pro) leagues, who could be called up immediately, and arrive the next day. 

Other great Seattle Totems were:
Les Hunt, Gordie Sinclair, and Don Ward on defence, and Gerry Leonard at centre, Marc Boileau at LW and centre, Chuck Holmes and Jim Powers on RW, and Earl Heiskala on LW.   There were no long-time goalies with Seattle.  Goaltending was like a swinging door.  They did have al Millar and Jim McLeod for a handful of years, each.
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JoeC
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« Reply #685 on: December 18, 2018, 05:01:15 PM »

Only recall Marc Boileau out of your list. Pretty good defenseman who I thought could've had a decent career. Didn't stick with the Red Wings though, for some reason. Probably, again, just numbers.  Ended up HC of the Penguins in the early 70s.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #686 on: December 27, 2018, 07:46:48 PM »

I  had to  cheat & look  it up.    Jets moved to  Phoenix & then  Thrashers  became the  new W. Jets
15 years later.
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JoeC
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« Reply #687 on: December 27, 2018, 08:38:33 PM »

Robb, from the original Winnipeg Jets (1972-96), how would you rank these players in terms of their play in a Winnipeg uniform only!

Bobby Hull, Dale Hawerchuk, Ulf Nilsson, and Anders Hedberg.

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doctordoowop
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« Reply #688 on: December 27, 2018, 09:49:02 PM »

Joe--bring back MIss Subway too! Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Robb_K
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« Reply #689 on: January 09, 2019, 01:47:55 AM »

From the original Winnipeg Jets (1972-96), how would you rank these players in terms of their play in a Winnipeg uniform only!
Bobby Hull, Dale Hawerchuk, Ulf Nilsson, and Anders Hedberg.

I have to admit that I didn't see all that many games of The original Winnipeg Jets, as I had left Winnipeg before The WHA started, and only visited for short periods (usually around Christmas to New Years time).  But I saw enough to say that Bobby Hull was the best among them(at least during his first 3-4 Jets' seasons), even being 33-36 years old then.  He was a much more all-around player then all the rest.  He was a superstar, and much larger difference-maker than all the others.  The two Swedes were smooth and fast skaters.  Nilsson was a super passer (set-up man).  So was Hawerchuck.  Hedberg was another goal scorer, with great hands.  But Bobby Hull, even in his older age, could still do it all. shoot, pass, play defence, hit, go to the tough areas and hold his own with anyone.  I would rank them: (1) Hull (100), (2) Hawerchuck(88), (3) Nilsson(79), (4) Hedberg (77).  Hull was a superstar, and tremendous difference-maker, like Howe, Mikita, Richard, Lemieux, Gretzky.  The other 3 were very good players, and significantly lower level difference-makers -when Hull played with the 2 Swedes the first 3 years, and Hawerchuck was at his peak.
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