DOO-WOP/OLDIES FORUM - Welcome
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 23, 2018, 08:42:04 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
ATTENTION:
NO COMMERCIAL SITES OR LINKS TO COMMERCIAL SITES ALLOWED ON THIS FORUM. IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SELL,
ie, CLOTHES, RECORDS, FURNTURE, ETC. DON'T DO IT HERE. THE URL WILL BE DELETED...  Mike Paladino
77946 Posts in 7045 Topics by 192 Members
Latest Member: doowopbob
* Home Help Login Register
+  DOO-WOP/OLDIES FORUM - Welcome
|-+  OT - OFF TOPIC TOPICS :-)
| |-+  Off Topic Stuff
| | |-+  Common Gammatical errors
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Common Gammatical errors  (Read 1139 times)
doctordoowop
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2636


« on: March 04, 2018, 02:39:48 PM »

1-  Pronouncing   ET cetera--   ECK  cetera

2-Using the  nominative  instead  objective  pronouns.---   "Jim invited  Mary  &  I  to the party." " Between u and I"

Especially the double errors--He invited  she & I to the party."   

I never noticed the above  to the degree  in NYC  area   as  in LA area.

Anyone else noticed?  Or  am I just more  vigilant?
Logged
Shandy
Hero Member
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 8648

Manhattan Lifer, Chelsea


« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 03:02:01 PM »

#1 - constantly.  #2 - No, too formal sounding a mistake for us to make.

"Canordinate" for coordinate, "EYE-run" for iron, "fill-M" for film and "crack the window open" immediately come to mind.
Logged

"The small man builds prisons for everyone he meets, but the wise woman ducks under the moon and tosses keys to the beautiful and rowdy prisoners."  Hafiz

"Intelligence is a lot less powerful when everyone knows you have it."  Unknown
JoeShack
Hero Member
******
Posts: 96


« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 04:24:14 PM »

Masonary instead of masonry.
And this done by people in the industry!!!
Logged
doowopbob
Hero Member
******
Posts: 301


« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 06:40:48 PM »

This topic is way over my head so I'll sit it out.
Logged

Silence is golden
Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2018, 06:54:28 PM »

 Common Gammatical errors
Maybe you should have titled this thread "Comon Speling Erors"?   Grin

Confusing too, to and two; where, wear, ware, and were; and there, their, and they're are common spelling, and, at the same time, common grammatical errors.  Not using "were" when the future is uncertain (subjunctive). Not using the past and future perfect tenses, when it would be more accurate and provide better information to the reader to do so.  Not matching the person correctly for the tense, or for the number of persons (plural vs. singular); not using past participles correctly, or at all, saying or writing "different than" instead of the proper, "different from", using "then" when "than" is correct, not knowing the difference between "shall" and "will", using "good" for an adverb instead of "well" , young strangers speaking to me, a 70+ year old, in the familiar form, like I am their peer, or friend, or father. Native speakers using incorrect word order, thus saying precisely something different from, or opposite from what they intended.  (i.e. "I could care less!"  I hate reading "run on sentences", or sentence fragments.  

Logged

Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2018, 06:55:46 PM »

Part 2-I am an editor of writing of stories.  I don't have a problem with people living simple lives in villages speaking the idiom of their local area.  But, I do resent educated, adult people living all their lives in a country, and not being able to master the national language of that country, especially when they haven't even attempted to learn other languages. Language is for communicating.  The better one masters a language, the better he or she can and will be understood.  Being understood better prevents misunderstandings, which can lead to problems.I think that many people deliberately use poor grammar and incorrect spelling to get back at language teachers form their childhood, who tried to get them tom do work that was unpleasant to them, and to show The World that they are independent and have wills of their own.  But, that makes for more miscommunication, and so, more problems.

But don't get the idea that I bothered people about this issue.  I am not known as one of "the grammar police".  I lived in The Ghetto in Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco Bay Area (San Mateo), but didn't go around correcting people's local language ("Ebonics" idiom).  I've only "made fun of" people's grammatical or spelling errors on this forum, when I was using that "error" to make a joke (not making fun of the writer, but seeing the comedy in the word the "error" made.
Logged

Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2018, 07:01:50 PM »

Yes, I forgot to add confusing "me" for "I".  "Me and her are going to the beach."  "Me go to beach!  Ugh!"  How did they learn to say that?  From whence did that come?   Cheesy
Which brings up the improper use of "who" and "whom".  
I hate double negatives.  Don't people know that 2 negatives make the statement positive?  Simple mathematics.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 07:03:50 PM by Robb_K » Logged

doctordoowop
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2636


« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2018, 07:06:53 PM »

Using "amount"  instead of  "numbers"

There  are  a large  amount of  bogus groups around.
Logged
Shandy
Hero Member
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 8648

Manhattan Lifer, Chelsea


« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2018, 07:26:46 PM »

Robb - What gets me is when people who were educated in these things and retained them, don't comprehend people that had to drop out of high school when their fathers died and had to support their families, families that couldn't afford decent schools, much less college and people whose ability to learn is not on the same level as theirs, are offended by the less educated.  Run on sentence Grin  It's not just arrogance and snobbery, but a lack of intelligence regarding the diversity of people.  Guess they were too busy with their noses in a book to get around more Angry
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 08:11:21 PM by Shandy » Logged

"The small man builds prisons for everyone he meets, but the wise woman ducks under the moon and tosses keys to the beautiful and rowdy prisoners."  Hafiz

"Intelligence is a lot less powerful when everyone knows you have it."  Unknown
Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2018, 07:31:31 PM »

Using "amount"  instead of  "numbers"There  are  a large  amount of  bogus groups around.
That would be acceptable grammatically, IF the writers had used "is" instead of are, as "amount" is singular.  But using "is an amount", although grammatically correct, would still not be a good way to say what they intended, given that it is far from numerically specific.  An amount can be anything from 1 to an infinite number). I find that the basic population is speaking less precisely now than 50-70 years ago, not only in USA, but in every country I dwell and visit.  I think that is because people, especially young people, read a lot less now.  When I tell children that we didn't have television (and, of course, computers and electronic games) in our houses when I was young, they also look at me like I must be an alien, and say "What did you do at night, and when it rained hard, or during blizzards???".  I tell them that "We read!"  Of course, we played cards and board games, and listened to some radio.  But, we read a lot more than they do.
Logged

Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2018, 07:44:14 PM »

Robb - What gets me is when people who were educated in these things and retained them, get annoyed at people that had to drop out of high school when their fathers died and had to support their families, families that couldn't afford decent schools, much less college and people whose ability to learn is not on the same level, get annoyed as if they're offended by the less educated.  Run on sentence Grin  It's not just arrogance and snobbery, but a lack of intelligence regarding the diversity of people.  Guess they were too busy with their noses in a book to get around more.
I didn't mean to give that impression. I was only talking about college educated people who act like they are authorities in making arguments on Internet fora (forums).  I'm not offended by people less educated than I, and can't blame people for their backgrounds.  And I didn't have my head in books all the time.  Much of the time from 5 to 18, I was playing hockey, or working in my father's Ghetto store.  I certainly didn't learn proper English, Dutch or Spanish grammar in  those environments.  And, I didn't learn much grammar in school language classrooms. I just think that being precise in language is a good thing, and I don't like that all the changes are moving towards simplification, which, in itself, wouldn't be a bad result; but, because it makes communication less understandable, I think it's not good.  I grew up with racial prejudice and a lot of misunderstandings that led to violence. 
Logged

Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2018, 07:53:18 PM »

#1 - constantly.  #2 - No, too formal sounding a mistake for us to make.

"Canordinate" for coordinate, "EYE-run" for iron, "fill-M" for film and "crack the window open" immediately come to mind.

Those aren't grammatical errors.  Those are examples of pronunciation in different dialects of British English, which were carried into American English.
As Shandy mentioned, I can't (and we shouldn't) blame people for talking the way people do in the local where they spent their childhoods.  In Dutch, and Frisian, we STILL pronounce all "lm" and "lk" consonant blends as two different syllables, a trait that was also shared by Anglo-Frisian and Anglo-Saxon, which was carried into Old English, and then, into the western English dialects, which, later, were carried over to Virginia and into The Appalachians, and also to New England.  I-run is the older North American pronunciation of the word.  Most people said it that way when I was young.

We shouldn't blame African-Americans for saying "axk" for "ask", as their community, being almost exclusively peopled by descendants of slaves from West Africa, whose languages have no "sk" sound.  Their ancestors never could pronounce that consonant blend.  So, they all learned it that way
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 02:40:47 AM by Robb_K » Logged

Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2018, 07:59:34 PM »

1-  Pronouncing   ET cetera--   ECK  cetera
2-Using the  nominative  instead  objective  pronouns.---   "Jim invited  Mary  &  I  to the party." " Between u and I"
Especially the double errors--He invited  she & I to the party."   
I never noticed the above  to the degree  in NYC  area   as  in LA area.
Anyone else noticed?  Or  am I just more  vigilant?
I guess it depends upon with whom you hang out.  I LIVE in L.A. part time, and did almost full time for 15 years.  I hardly meet anyone there who speaks English at all.  If I didn't speak Spanish I'd be lost.  And speaking of Spanish..... it's a very poor grade of watered down Mexican, using only present tense and a little straight past.  If you use imperfecto or pluscuamperfecto, they will look at you like you are insane.  So, Spanish has degraded a lot, too.  But, actually, most of these people are of almost 100% Native North American origin, and never really learned Spanish, in the first place.
Logged

Shandy
Hero Member
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 8648

Manhattan Lifer, Chelsea


« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2018, 08:22:35 PM »

Robb - Yeah, "gammatical" is a hoot.  If I corrected his typing errors (cause it's not a spelling one) as much as he nit picks me, I'd never eat, sleep or bathe Wink  Yes again, my examples were not grammatical errors.  I was wondering who was going to jump on me first for that one.  You win!  And though I addressed you, since you said what bothered you about people, it was not aimed at you and sorry if I gave that impression.  I was telling you what ticks me off about some people and the description I gave does not bring you to mind at all.
Logged

"The small man builds prisons for everyone he meets, but the wise woman ducks under the moon and tosses keys to the beautiful and rowdy prisoners."  Hafiz

"Intelligence is a lot less powerful when everyone knows you have it."  Unknown
DJ Big Jack
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1339


BOO !


WWW
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2018, 09:41:34 PM »

almost no none says "gentlemen" anymore .. it's  'gemen', 'genamen', 'genamon', and variations to those.

I always chuckled at "vanilla folder" for "manila folder".

many many others

libary for library

the classic "axe" for "ask" , of course

Sandy Claus, or Santy Claus

kindegarden for kindergarten

POleece for Police

Amblance for ambulance

Logged

DJ Big Jack
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1339


BOO !


WWW
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2018, 09:51:33 PM »

A lot of people confuse "borrow" and "lend".   

I knew someone who used "InterWeb" instead of "Internet" or "World Wide Web" .. despite the fact that he heard the correct usage daily.   That's probably my biggest gripe .. I understand that everyone didn't have the same access to good teachers, or had to quit school, etc.    But people who don't learn from their mistakes or who don't realize their speech errors after frequently hearing the correct usage of a word or how to say it ... that is hard for me to wrap my head around.    An example of that in my life is a family member who says "PenguiM" instead of "Penguin".
Logged

doctordoowop
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2636


« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2018, 10:18:40 PM »

Robb--"from  whence" is redundant--whence means from where. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Logged
dead dog
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 154

Looking for The Echo


« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2018, 11:02:07 PM »

Part 2-I am an editor of writing of stories.  I don't have a problem with people living simple lives in villages speaking the idiom of their local area.  But, I do resent educated, adult people living all their lives in a country, and not being able to master the national language of that country, especially when they haven't even attempted to learn other languages. Language is for communicating.  The better one masters a language, the better he or she can and will be understood.  Being understood better prevents misunderstandings, which can lead to problems.I think that many people deliberately use poor grammar and incorrect spelling to get back at language teachers form their childhood, who tried to get them tom do work that was unpleasant to them, and to show The World that they are independent and have wills of their own.  But, that makes for more miscommunication, and so, more problems.

But don't get the idea that I bothered people about this issue.  I am not known as one of "the grammar police".  I lived in The Ghetto in Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco Bay Area (San Mateo), but didn't go around correcting people's local language ("Ebonics" idiom).  I've only "made fun of" people's grammatical or spelling errors on this forum, when I was using that "error" to make a joke (not making fun of the writer, but seeing the comedy in the word the "error" made.

San Mateo a Ghetto...LMAO
Home values are higher than San Francisco, Ca. The median home value in San Mateo is $1,393,500.
https://www.trulia.com/CA/San_Mateo/

Median Rent Per Month is $3950.00
https://www.trulia.com/real_estate/San_Mateo-California/

 (not making fun of the writer, but seeing the comedy in the word the "error" made)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 11:28:42 PM by dead dog » Logged

"Enjoy life to the fullest, as you never know when you will be asked to leave"
doctordoowop
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2636


« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2018, 11:39:53 PM »

Robb-thanx.   My errors   are  mostly typos  like that  mind moves quicker  than fingers.
Logged
Shandy
Hero Member
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 8648

Manhattan Lifer, Chelsea


« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2018, 12:56:21 AM »

Watch out, Jack, someone will be on you since pronunciation errors are not allowed Wink

doc - "mind moves quicker than the fingers."  That is so you, lol.  You just can't type fast, but not to worry.   I don't think many people get to act superior because of their typing skills.  I can still take steno.  I know you're impressed, LOLOL.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 01:04:38 AM by Shandy » Logged

"The small man builds prisons for everyone he meets, but the wise woman ducks under the moon and tosses keys to the beautiful and rowdy prisoners."  Hafiz

"Intelligence is a lot less powerful when everyone knows you have it."  Unknown
bklynmike101
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1164


« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2018, 01:13:19 AM »

I ain't perfect grammatically - far from it - but this one from a family member fries my raised-in-the-projects in Brooklyn yet reasonably well-educated a** every time:

"I could have ran"....and variants thereof.

Then again, I used to think Coney Island Avenue was Coney Ilan Davenue.  Of course, that's when I was around 5.  Wink

Logged
Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2018, 02:47:14 AM »

Robb-thanx.   My errors   are  mostly typos  like that  mind moves quicker  than fingers.
I knew it was a typo.  I'm not the "typo police".  If I corrected everyone's typos I'd have been drummed off this forum years ago.  I only brought it up because of the extreme irony of its relationship to the title of this thread.  I make a lot of typos too.  That's why I have a lot of "modified times listed".
Logged

Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2018, 02:58:17 AM »

almost no none says "gentlemen" anymore .. it's  'gemen', 'genamen', 'genamon', and variations to those.

I always chuckled at "vanilla folder" for "manila folder".

many many others

libary for library

the classic "axe" for "ask" , of course

Sandy Claus, or Santy Claus

kindegarden for kindergarten

POleece for Police

Amblance for ambulance


What about "Sanity Clause"  Didn't Chicko inform us that "There AIN'T no 'Sanity Clause' !"

"Santa Claus" isn't so correct for Americans, anyway.  His name should should be "Saint Nickolas" in English.  And what's the deal with him, anyway.  How can anyone believe an Anatolian Greek who died in the year 358 AD, is still alive, delivering gifts to kids all over The World from The North Pole (which soon will be ice-free in summer).  That 1750 year old man will need to migrate south, to land, just like the polar bears.  Maybe after 250 more years, he can make an LP like Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner, and become a celebrity. 
Logged

Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2018, 03:18:58 AM »

A lot of people confuse "borrow" and "lend".   

I knew someone who used "InterWeb" instead of "Internet" or "World Wide Web" .. despite the fact that he heard the correct usage daily.   That's probably my biggest gripe .. I understand that everyone didn't have the same access to good teachers, or had to quit school, etc.    But people who don't learn from their mistakes or who don't realize their speech errors after frequently hearing the correct usage of a word or how to say it ... that is hard for me to wrap my head around.

Just like using "lend" for "borrow", using "learn" as a verb, to mean "teach" (I'm gonna learn ya....") is a holdover from regional American dialects that came from Anglo-Frisian and Anglo-Saxon into the Wessex dialect of Old English, and with the sailors and immigrants from Bristol and western England into dialects of American English, that are still spoken today. We still use "learn" (lernen) for teach, and "loan"(lenen) in both Dutch and Frisian.

I guess we could blame people for not learning their national language and continuing to speak their local dialects, but don't we ALL do some of that, using our local vocabulary words (such as "sneakers" on The East Coast of USA, "Tennis Shoes" in California, and "Runners" in Central and Western Canada, and "couch", "sofa", and "Chesterfield" or "davenport" in different parts of USA and Canada, and what about "soda pop", "soda", and "pop" in different areas? 
Logged

DJ Big Jack
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 1339


BOO !


WWW
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2018, 09:03:49 AM »

Robb, the regional word usages have always been interesting to me. 

Here's another for you.   "Chucks" is in use in places as an alternate word for "sneakers".   It's derived from "Chuck Taylor Converse All Stars" .. a classic basketball shoe.   And, as I recall, the British use "Trainers", don't they ?

Another is the (Eastern "Lightning Bugs" vs. the (Western) "fireflies".     As an aside, I have a friend in California who has never seen one.  It seems they just don't exist in Northern California.

What about "sub", "submarine", "hoagie", "grinder", "hero", "zeppelins", "spuckies", "blimpies", and "Dagwoods" to describe a sandwich made with a long Italian roll?   I grew up with "Hoagie" and sometimes heard "sub" in East/Central Pa.

There's also "yard sale", "garage sale", "rummage sale", and "tag sale".   For the first two, it usually doesn't describe WHERE the sale is being held, it's a generic term that's used.

Logged

Shandy
Hero Member
******
Gender: Female
Posts: 8648

Manhattan Lifer, Chelsea


« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2018, 12:11:35 PM »

Do people actually use "whence" here?  When Brits use it, like"hence" and "whilst", it sounds right.  When American use it, it sounds pretentious to me.
Logged

"The small man builds prisons for everyone he meets, but the wise woman ducks under the moon and tosses keys to the beautiful and rowdy prisoners."  Hafiz

"Intelligence is a lot less powerful when everyone knows you have it."  Unknown
Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2018, 08:34:42 PM »

Do people actually use "whence" here?  When Brits use it, like"hence" and "whilst", it sounds right.  When American use it, it sounds pretentious to me.
It is archaic in USA.  You are correct.  It IS pretentious. It is still used in Britain.
Logged

Robb_K
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 3249


Hopeless Nostalgist


« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2018, 08:49:09 PM »

San Mateo a Ghetto...LMAOHome values are higher than San Francisco, Ca. The median home value in San Mateo is $1,393,500.
https://www.trulia.com/CA/San_Mateo/Median Rent Per Month is $3950.00

I wasn't joking.  When I lived in San Mateo, on East 2nd Ave., that area, north of 3rd Ave., and east of Downtown, was all Black, and had much, much lower rents and home values (significantly lower than the rest of the city, by far.  We were "The Hunter's Point of San Mateo".  Everything is relative.  The people could not be said to have been "middle class".  They would have loved to have their incomes raised to lower middle class level.  They had low incomes and low level jobs with many out of work, when I lived there 1970-1972.  It was a much smaller area than the Oakland and Hunter's Point/South of Mission Ghettos, and not as poor as those.  But, it was still an all-Black area with low average income.
Logged

doctordoowop
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2636


« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2018, 09:13:44 PM »

All  the above  is getting my dandruff  up.   Grin Grin Grin Grin

Orient  instead  of orientate.
Logged
dead dog
Hero Member
******
Gender: Male
Posts: 154

Looking for The Echo


« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2018, 10:45:00 PM »

San Mateo a Ghetto...LMAOHome values are higher than San Francisco, Ca. The median home value in San Mateo is $1,393,500.
https://www.trulia.com/CA/San_Mateo/Median Rent Per Month is $3950.00

I wasn't joking.  When I lived in San Mateo, on East 2nd Ave., that area, north of 3rd Ave., and east of Downtown, was all Black, and had much, much lower rents and home values (significantly lower than the rest of the city, by far.  We were "The Hunter's Point of San Mateo".  Everything is relative.  The people could not be said to have been "middle class".  They would have loved to have their incomes raised to lower middle class level.  They had low incomes and low level jobs with many out of work, when I lived there 1970-1972.  It was a much smaller area than the Oakland and Hunter's Point/South of Mission Ghettos, and not as poor as those.  But, it was still an all-Black area with low average income.


Rob,
Just pulling your chain. I drove through there last week heading to Orange County SoCal and was very impressed with the area.
Logged

"Enjoy life to the fullest, as you never know when you will be asked to leave"
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.099 seconds with 19 queries.