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Author Topic: Viet Nam  (Read 743 times)
JoeC
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« on: March 18, 2018, 06:51:23 PM »

Bob,

So you were over there in 1965. Gotta ask if you read LTG Hal Moore's book, or saw the movie "We Were Soldiers"? Based on an early battle in the Ia Drang Valley in November 1965 in which then-Colonel Moore's 7th Cav forces participated.

As a Vietnam Vet, have you seen the movies that came out of the war, e.g., Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Coming Home, etc? Or, have you avoided them? Be interested in how you felt about how Hollywood depicted things.

Other vets here? Your thoughts?

I had a roommate at Fort Meade, and two high school classmates KIA. All in 1969, maybe one was '70.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 06:53:17 PM by JoeC » Logged
doowopbob
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2018, 07:22:51 PM »

JoeC - allow me to respond:
1. I was in Vietnam 65 & 66.  I was assigned to a Navy Amphibious ship and our first stop was to take Marines into Chu Lai, two days later we took them to Danang.   We were in and out of Danang well into 1966. I was involved with the boat crews for the landing in Chu Lai and patrols in the Danang harbor for a few weeks.  My main job by 1965 was Admin but I was a qualified boat coxswain which is why I was involved with the boats until they got some new crew members.  Spent the rest of time standing watch on the signal bridge from 12:00am to 6:00am 7 days a week - watching air strikes every night has resulted in some PTSD that seems to show up every July 4th and New Years Eve.
2. I was in Vietnam 69 & 70.  I was assigned to a Navy Destroyer and we spent 7 months on the gun and flight lines.  Our main responsibility was watching for downed pilots.  By this time I was an E-6 and had no watch responsibilities.  This tour was a piece of cake.
3. The book - no I have not read it.  I have read one book about the Brown Water Navy (the Riverine forces) and one by an Air Force pilot who became a POW.  I also read John Kerry's book about his Vietnam service.
4. Movies - Platoon, Coming Home, The Deer Hunter and another one about a sniper.

I have no regrets about serving, it was my choice.  I'm not a hero nor am I a villain as some from that era chose to call us.  Would I serve again? YES!!!  Between my active duty (8 years) and Reserve (13years) I earned (in the eyes of the Military  only) my retirement at age 60 and it was so worth it - by buying Medicare Part B I get TriCare for life (Military secondary) for free and that includes free prescriptions from the local Naval Station pharmacy.  I now volunteer with the Navy one day a week helping Sailors and Marines with budgeting issues - so rewarding to be able to help them.

John Kerry and Jane Fonda are not my favorite people.  I was not happy with the protesters but as U.S. citizens they had every right to express themselves - I just was angry about being spit on and having garbage thrown at me in San Diego, CA.

There you have it - wordy but honest.
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Shandy
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2018, 08:22:15 PM »

Bob - your piece of cake tour sounds anything but, you just had others that were more horrific.  My friend seems fine until he hears a chopper....then he goes into great detail about what kind it is, how it handles, etc.  In that regard, he has never come home Cry
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"The small man builds prisons for everyone he meets, but the wise woman ducks under the moon and tosses keys to the beautiful and rowdy prisoners."  Hafiz

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doowopbob
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2018, 08:24:05 PM »

Shandy - NONE of us have ever really left there.  You will get the same reply from our warriors who have served in combat since 9/11, you can leave the zone but it won't leave you.
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JoeC
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2018, 08:25:32 PM »

Bob, thanks for your candor, and your service! My father was a career Army Combat Engineer, serving right out of college in WWII in both New Guinea (1943-44) and Germany (1945). So I grew up an Army brat.

When I graduated from college in January '66, I got an offer to join a US Intelligence Agency. The job did not preclude me from being drafted but a letter from that agency to my draft board telling them I was working there apparently took me off the draft board's radar. I'd be lying if I said I wanted to go to Viet Nam but ... I do wish now that I had gone into the Service first, and then done college. I'm sure I would've been a lot more mature.

As for the movies, I of course have no way to judge how well done they are (taking dramatic license into effect). Still, I'd recommend "We Were Soldiers" to you -- it's my clear favorite of all of them.

Sorry to hear about the effect fireworks can still have on you. And, you and all who served are most deserving of the benefits you get. Hope they meet your needs.

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doctordoowop
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2018, 11:43:38 PM »

bob--true story-i was  there.  At Vero Beach  adult camp--about  1991-Tom Hayden  had  his wife  Jane  lead  calisthenics. Everybody  got up & walked  off. Grin Grin
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Shandy
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 01:29:32 AM »

bob - unfortunately, I believe you.
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"The small man builds prisons for everyone he meets, but the wise woman ducks under the moon and tosses keys to the beautiful and rowdy prisoners."  Hafiz

"Intelligence is a lot less powerful when everyone knows you have it."  Unknown
JoeC
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2018, 08:29:26 AM »

bob--true story-i was  there.  At Vero Beach  adult camp--about  1991-Tom Hayden  had  his wife  Jane  lead  calisthenics. Everybody  got up & walked  off. Grin Grin

Did Lasorda run the adult camp? He really was into that star-chasing thing. Loved the attention!  Smiley
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Robb_K
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2018, 07:58:28 PM »

I had a student deferment through 1971.  I could have returned to Canada.  But, I moved to The Netherlands in mid 1972.  I wouldn't have been accepted by The US Army or Navy, in any case, because of serious allergies.  But, none of that mattered. as I "won" the draft lottery, receiving a number in the 300s.  They never got to 300 in my Westwood, California draft board.  I had a friend (not close, but more than just an acquaintance) from Homewood-Flossmoor High School in Chicago's south suburbs, killed in Vietnam.  The husband of a 1st cousin of mine (2 years younger, but with whom I was raised as sister and brother (2 of 14 grandchildren living together in a family compound(four nearby houses)) returned from Vietnam with shell shock.  To this day, he wakes up at night, sweating from nightmares that he's back and watching his buddies get blown up in front of him.  Whenever a car or motorbike backfires, he jumps about 20 feet up, with a look of unbridled terror in his eyes.  Unlike my brother and I, who never served, my father stormed Juno Beach at Normandy (Royal Winnipeg Rifles-Canadian Army), in the 1st wave, and saw fully 60% of his unit meet their ends. 
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2018, 09:02:49 PM »

Joe--Tommy  showed  up only  on Wednesdays. Camp went  Sun to Sat.  Paraded  around  in a golf cart,  ate dinner, drank in the bar, stayed  the nite & left.   I recall  him  going off on Ump Bruce  Froemming  --about a call Bruce made yrs before.  TL  challenged him to  a fite in locker room.

He is really  a fat clown--in a camper vs. Dodger  game-in front of few hundred in Holman-he  went crazy  when a batter  was cut some slack by the ump-Dutch Rennert

He had not seen that the player  was one armed-and  of course  the game is of course meaningless.   Can u spell  chagrin &  being a loud foolin front of a few hundred locals. 
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JoeC
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 08:31:56 AM »

Joe--Tommy  showed  up only  on Wednesdays. Camp went  Sun to Sat.  Paraded  around  in a golf cart,  ate dinner, drank in the bar, stayed  the nite & left.   I recall  him  going off on Ump Bruce  Froemming  --about a call Bruce made yrs before.  TL  challenged him to  a fite in locker room.

He is really  a fat clown--in a camper vs. Dodger  game-in front of few hundred in Holman-he  went crazy  when a batter  was cut some slack by the ump-Dutch Rennert

He had not seen that the player  was one armed-and  of course  the game is of course meaningless.   Can u spell  chagrin &  being a loud foolin front of a few hundred locals. 

I saw a lot of Tommy in AAA. He was, for several years, the best pitcher in the International League -- with Montreal. He was the heir to Leo Durocher as a guy who tried at every turn to cozy up to Hollywood stars, major and minor. Seems to have enjoyed his life, I'll give him that! More than Leo did.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 11:24:47 AM »

About 2-3 years back, Lasorda was the keynote speaker for that year's graduating class at my wife's university. He gave a nice but "standard" short speech full of the usual platitudes, but did fall asleep in the seats when others were babbling on (as is often the case in such ceremonies). He was cordial with the various university "dignitaries".
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 01:31:28 PM »

Exactly--wen he has to he can be fine--but  his true personality comes out on the field.

He never admits his career record is  0-4--w/  KC  A's.
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JoeC
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« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 01:48:11 PM »

About 2-3 years back, Lasorda was the keynote speaker for that year's graduating class at my wife's university. He gave a nice but "standard" short speech full of the usual platitudes, but did fall asleep in the seats when others were babbling on (as is often the case in such ceremonies). He was cordial with the various university "dignitaries".

He was a crafty lefty with Montreal. Short, like 5'9 or so, but solid build. Always thought if there had been room for him on, say, the 1953-56 Brooklyn staff, he coulda been pretty effective. Had good stuff. In the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame (107 wins for Montreal, many IL championships). Left his MLB prime years on the field in Montreal. With only 16 major league teams, many good pitchers like Tom never got the chance they would easily get once expansion took hold.
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Shandy
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« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 02:44:17 PM »

See, here's a case where I don't mind that something like Nam deteriorates into sports chat.  Here's the place for it.  That's the nature of the OT beast Smiley
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"The small man builds prisons for everyone he meets, but the wise woman ducks under the moon and tosses keys to the beautiful and rowdy prisoners."  Hafiz

"Intelligence is a lot less powerful when everyone knows you have it."  Unknown
JoeC
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« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2018, 04:15:34 PM »

See, here's a case where I don't mind that something like Nam deteriorates into sports chat.  Here's the place for it.  That's the nature of the OT beast Smiley
Jane Fonda and ex-hubby Tom Hayden were the de-railers in getting us from Nam to baseball. Who woulda thought? Although, Jane was also married to Ted Turner who once owned the Atlanta Braves baseball franchise.
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Shandy
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« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2018, 05:32:19 PM »

I remember seeing her falling asleep at games, doing that weird chopping thing.  She was a piece of clay, walking around to be molded, then re-molded, by different men.  No foolish thing she did in Nam was worse to me than her brainless submission.  If she were with a hawk during Nam, she would have been calling us who were against the war "commie pinko traitors" ; Angry
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"The small man builds prisons for everyone he meets, but the wise woman ducks under the moon and tosses keys to the beautiful and rowdy prisoners."  Hafiz

"Intelligence is a lot less powerful when everyone knows you have it."  Unknown
doctordoowop
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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 08:16:59 PM »

He always says-Koufax  got me  cut. (Old Bonus baby rules)
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JoeC
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« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 08:43:11 PM »

He always says-Koufax  got me  cut. (Old Bonus baby rules)

Sandy and their other kid phenom (who never made it), Fred Kipp. Remember him? Karl Spooner, Roger Craig and Don Bessent were other "kids" who helped keep Lasorda in Montreal. Add in Erskine, Podres, Roe, Newcombe, Labine and the rest and you see why Tommy was REALLY unlucky. Shoulda been with the Pirates or Senators or other bottom feeders in the mid-50s. Coulda been a Bobby Shantz type.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2018, 02:09:08 AM »

He always says-Koufax  got me  cut. (Old Bonus baby rules)

Sandy and their other kid phenom (who never made it), Fred Kipp. Remember him? Karl Spooner, Roger Craig and Don Bessent were other "kids" who helped keep Lasorda in Montreal. Add in Erskine, Podres, Roe, Newcombe, Labine and the rest and you see why Tommy was REALLY unlucky. Shoulda been with the Pirates or Senators or other bottom feeders in the mid-50s. Coulda been a Bobby Shantz type.

And yet, Tommy Lasorda had many different baseball cards as a Brooklyn Dodger pitcher over quite a few years.  One who didn't follow The Dodgers closely, and didn't look at his stats on the backs of his cards, would have thought he was a Dodger throughout the early through mid 1950s.
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JoeC
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« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2018, 07:52:13 AM »

He always says-Koufax  got me  cut. (Old Bonus baby rules)

Sandy and their other kid phenom (who never made it), Fred Kipp. Remember him? Karl Spooner, Roger Craig and Don Bessent were other "kids" who helped keep Lasorda in Montreal. Add in Erskine, Podres, Roe, Newcombe, Labine and the rest and you see why Tommy was REALLY unlucky. Shoulda been with the Pirates or Senators or other bottom feeders in the mid-50s. Coulda been a Bobby Shantz type.

And yet, Tommy Lasorda had many different baseball cards as a Brooklyn Dodger pitcher over quite a few years.  One who didn't follow The Dodgers closely, and didn't look at his stats on the backs of his cards, would have thought he was a Dodger throughout the early through mid 1950s.

Robb, very true. He had cards all through that mid-50s period with Brooklyn yet, as Doc pointed out, didn't even register a decision for them. I recall the same with Joey Amalfitano and Frank Leja/Tommy Carroll, Giants and Yankees Bonus Baby's at the same time. Many baseball cards, few games played.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2018, 11:20:06 AM »

Lasorda's real bugaboo as a hurler was his inability to throw strikes - 1 walk in less than two innings. He had 100 walks in 122 innings in his 1st year, then 153 BBs in 192 innings Confession: I looked up these stats), and so on, improving marginally over the years. He was no Shantz, who was an excellent pitcher for a long time ('52 AL MVP). Anyone remember Bobby's catcher brother Wilmer Shantz?

Fred Kipp - dark green border on his 1960 Yankees baseball card (from memory).

Enjoyed seeing these names in print - Frank Leja, Joey Amalfitano, etc.

Ralph Houk played for the NY Yankees for around 7-8 full years, ending up in around 15-20 games per year, catching behind Yogi and others including Ellie. Unusual.
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JoeC
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« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2018, 11:30:22 AM »

Lasorda's real bugaboo as a hurler was his inability to throw strikes - 1 walk in less than two innings. He had 100 walks in 122 innings in his 1st year, then 153 BBs in 192 innings Confession: I looked up these stats), and so on, improving marginally over the years. He was no Shantz, who was an excellent pitcher for a long time ('52 AL MVP). Anyone remember Bobby's catcher brother Wilmer Shantz?

Fred Kipp - dark green border on his 1960 Yankees baseball card (from memory).

Enjoyed seeing these names in print - Frank Leja, Joey Amalfitano, etc.

Ralph Houk played for the NY Yankees for around 7-8 full years, ending up in around 15-20 games per year, catching behind Yogi and others including Ellie. Unusual.

Good research, Mike. Guess I'll amend my projection to leaving it that he was the "Bobby Shantz of the International League" (minus the control). Remember one baseball card with Bobby and Wilmer sharing it. Bobby was like, what, 5'6 or so? Seriously, don't think he was taller than that.

Before Houk, there was Charlie Silvera as Yogi's backup.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2018, 05:38:15 PM »

Tommys 55  green -never saw another.  In good condition worth a few hundred.  Because us kids  put it in our spokes. Grin Grin Grin
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JoeC
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« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2018, 08:13:49 PM »

In my opinion, the most powerful song about Viet Nam. Ex-Chicago Letter Carrier John Prine with "Sam Stone" from 1971. Signed by Ahmet Ertegun to Atlantic Records.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJXGsJkYM0g
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2018, 09:25:29 PM »

Joe--all  right  except  Roe--retired in 53.  Great &  funny man--a real sweetheart. 

Once gave up  6  HRs  in a game --all  solo  shots. He said   he told Duke to  play  "Higher"
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Robb_K
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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2018, 09:28:21 PM »

THIS is by FAR, my favourite Vietnam song:
Tony Mason - "Take Good Care - 1967

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWPBoudStM4&list=RDEMqqSQ99JRC6zqavBrvjUNoA

My 2nd favourite is "My Ship Is Coming In" - by Pace-Setters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUJnpRmYdHE
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 10:05:51 PM by Robb_K » Logged

JoeC
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« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2018, 08:43:07 AM »

Robb, two good ones. For such a long war, there weren't THAT many songs (maybe I should say well-known songs) about it.

Of course, the Edwin Starr and Freda Payne songs got a lot of air play. As dad Sgt Barry Sadler's #1 hit and PF Sloan's "Eve of Destruction." Then, there were the songs about the protests like Neil Young's "Ohio" and Merle Haggard's C&W anti-protester anthems.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2018, 10:14:18 AM »

Robb, two good ones. For such a long war, there weren't THAT many songs (maybe I should say well-known songs) about it.

Of course, the Edwin Starr and Freda Payne songs got a lot of air play. As dad Sgt Barry Sadler's #1 hit and PF Sloan's "Eve of Destruction." Then, there were the songs about the protests like Neil Young's "Ohio" and Merle Haggard's C&W anti-protester anthems.

The Players, Monitors, Mike Williams, and Emanuel Lasky also come to find, but there were many, many more.  But, I stopped listening to the radio in 1967, and NEVER listened to Pop and Rock stations, so I don' have any idea of what songs were played.  I only know what was released on the Black stations up until about 1957, plus a few more from 1968 and 1969.  The 1970s records I have can be recited in a matter of seconds, and I don't believe any of them are about Vietnam.  I've seen the Sgt. Barry Sadler record literally thousands of times while flipping through 45s, but I've never heard it.  I remember ThePlayers, Monitors and Pace Setters' from WVON.  And, I found the Mike Williams, Tony Mason, and Emmanuel Lasky records, and bought them and others because I liked their labels, producers, songwriters, music publishing companies artists, or arrangers.  I was not listening to the radio for most of the later stages of that war, and was not in North America fand not spending time among Americans for much of that time.  I have no idea which white artists sang about it, other than Barry Sadler.  Were there any other big hits?  I would imagine it was not a popular subject to sing about in the C&W field.
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Shandy
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« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2018, 10:26:23 AM »

Three of my favorites. "Big Muddy" - Pete Seeger was brought back for Nam from WWII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3SysxG6yoE

Saw Country Joe McDonald do this one at Woodstock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXspsfoPX50

"Universal Soldier" - Donovan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A50lVLtSQik

« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 07:40:28 PM by Shandy » Logged

"The small man builds prisons for everyone he meets, but the wise woman ducks under the moon and tosses keys to the beautiful and rowdy prisoners."  Hafiz

"Intelligence is a lot less powerful when everyone knows you have it."  Unknown
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