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Author Topic: Viet Nam  (Read 2559 times)
JoeC
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« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2018, 10:53:32 AM »

Robb, IMO you're lucky not to have heard Barry Sadler. It was easily, though, the biggest seller! #1 for weeks in 1966.

Shandy named another big seller, the Donovan single (although Buffy Ste-Marie, a First Nations singer/songwriter from Saskatchewan, wrote it). Neil Young's "Ohio" was written in response to the "Kent State Massacre." Helped sell a lot of CSNY albums.

Then, there are all the songs "associated" with the War, mainly through films like Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, etc. Pretty much the whole Motown catalog, a lot of Doors music, Hendrix -- all the "soundtrack."
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Robb_K
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« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2018, 11:27:56 AM »

Three of my favorites. "Big Muddy" - Pete Seeger was brought back for Nam from WWII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3SysxG6yoE

Saw Country Joe McDonald do this one at Woodstock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXspsfoPX50

"Universal Soldier" - Donovan

Nice song by Pete Seeger.  I should have guessed that he would have had an anti-Vietnam War song.  Unlike his early songs, this one's wording was a little "disguised", or toned down, but still, the meaning is clear.  It's a miracle that he wasn't murdered like The Kennedys and MLK under suspicious circumstances, or didn't just disappear mysteriously. 
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2018, 01:47:23 PM »

Lasorda's real bugaboo as a hurler was his inability to throw strikes - 1 walk in less than two innings. He had 100 walks in 122 innings in his 1st year, then 153 BBs in 192 innings Confession: I looked up these stats), and so on, improving marginally over the years. He was no Shantz, who was an excellent pitcher for a long time ('52 AL MVP). Anyone remember Bobby's catcher brother Wilmer Shantz?

Fred Kipp - dark green border on his 1960 Yankees baseball card (from memory).

Enjoyed seeing these names in print - Frank Leja, Joey Amalfitano, etc.

Ralph Houk played for the NY Yankees for around 7-8 full years, ending up in around 15-20 games per year, catching behind Yogi and others including Ellie. Unusual.

Good research, Mike. Guess I'll amend my projection to leaving it that he was the "Bobby Shantz of the International League" (minus the control). Remember one baseball card with Bobby and Wilmer sharing it. Bobby was like, what, 5'6 or so? Seriously, don't think he was taller than that.

Before Houk, there was Charlie Silvera as Yogi's backup.

Joe, maybe you should ask him how tall he is. At age 92, Bobby Shantz is still with us. Listed at 5'6" and an incredible 142 lbs! Shades of Fritz Brickell! Altuve is a little beefier.
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JoeC
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« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2018, 03:30:52 PM »

Mike, Good to hear Bobby is still with us.

One of my two favorite pitchers from back when. Other was Eddie Lopat (who Doc has mentioned was sort of a jerk in person). Now, don't you go destroying my other hero!!

Loved Bobby's side-armed delivery and his sharp curve ball. Great control too. Lopat always amazed me that he could throw complete game shutouts with the junk he threw up there. Both varied speeds beautifully. 

Bobby's catcher brother (Billy) was a skinny 6'1, so he got all the height in the gene pool.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2018, 03:45:22 PM »

Mike, Good to hear Bobby is still with us.

One of my two favorite pitchers from back when. Other was Eddie Lopat (who Doc has mentioned was sort of a jerk in person). Now, don't you go destroying my other hero!!

Loved Bobby's side-armed delivery and his sharp curve ball. Great control too. Lopat always amazed me that he could throw complete game shutouts with the junk he threw up there. Both varied speeds beautifully. 

Bobby's catcher brother (Billy) was a skinny 6'1, so he got all the height in the gene pool.
Both of those trades were steals for The Yankees.  They gave up essentially catcher Aaron Robinson and junk pitcher, Bill Wight, for Lopat before the 1949 season, and got Shantz, Ditmar and a couple other decent players for a bunch of bums (ex Browns bonus babies who never made it.  As a White Sox fan, I hated The Yankees.
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JoeC
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« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2018, 04:55:02 PM »

Most Yankees trades in the 40s and 50s were total steals by them. Need a bat for the stretch run and WS, get Eddie Robinson, Suitcase Simpson, Johnny Mize or Country Slaughter? Need a 4 or 5 tool starting OF, get Roger Maris. Trade Norm Siebern, Tom Morgan, Billy Hunter, Bob Grim, Tom Sturdivant or whomever.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2018, 06:27:34 PM »

Lopat  - is  really  something like  Lopatsky--    did treat  hs ballplayers like s--t.

Joe-never met Schantz  so no worries. 

Joe  most  MLB  guys  are  nice guys--some zany  --Jay Johnstone,  Reuss,  and Yeager.  Reuss  wrote a book about  old R&R  --someone directed him to  me & he gave up  trying to stump me. Wonder how many  ball  or music fans have seen  his book--not bad at all.

May be on Amazon or  Ebay. 
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Shandy
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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2018, 07:44:22 PM »

JoeC - I believe Buffy put it out first, but I can't stand her voice.

Robb - As subtle as it may be, there was a BIG to-do when he did it on the Smothers Brothers show.  I couldn't believe the uproar.  Like you, I'm surprised he got out alive.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2018, 07:49:06 PM »

JoeC - I believe Buffy put it out first, but I can't stand her voice.

Robb - As subtle as it may be, there was a BIG to-do when he did it on the Smothers Brothers show.  I couldn't believe the uproar.  Like you, I'm surprised he got out alive.
Yes.  CBS didn't want The Smothers Brothers to have him appear on their show.  They threatened to quit that network and tear up their contract if he wasn't allowed on.  CBS approved of the song The Brothers told them Seeger would sing, but switched it at show time.  Amazing that their show wasn't cancelled afterwards.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2018, 07:51:17 PM »

Lopat  - is  really  something like  Lopatsky--    did treat  hs ballplayers like s--t.

Joe-never met Schantz  so no worries. 

Joe  most  MLB  guys  are  nice guys--some zany  --Jay Johnstone,  Reuss,  and Yeager.  Reuss  wrote a book about  old R&R  --someone directed him to  me & he gave up  trying to stump me. Wonder how many  ball  or music fans have seen  his book--not bad at all.

May be on Amazon or  Ebay. 
Lopat's birth name was Lopatynski (Polish). 
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doowopbob
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« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2018, 08:34:01 PM »

Having served over there I have trouble citing a favorable anything about it, song or otherwise.  As to Kent State - according to a very close friend who was in the National Guard at that Kent State event, he said NO ENLISTED weapons were loaded and officers had rubber bullets.  The shots were fired from trees, reportedly by members of the Black Panthers who were trying to get something stirred up - they succeeded and the Ohio National Guard was given a bad rap forever.  I'm sure there will be "nay sayers" concerning Kent State but we've all seen what the media can, and will, do to any story.  My friend also said that anytime they were called out to quell "incidents" their weapons were empty.

As to songs, I found it ironic that some protest songs were recorded by some who had just left the Military (Joe McDonald(Navy) and Barry McGuire(Navy) and two members of CCR who were in Reserve units (John Fogerty National Guard and Doug Clifford Coast Guard).  BUT - I defend their right as citizens to record protest songs, they earned it.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2018, 09:33:41 PM »

The Winstons--Color  Him Father.   Says his real    father  was killed  in the war.  Assume  V Nam  as song was a hit  in 1969.
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JoeC
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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2018, 10:05:02 PM »

JoeC - I believe Buffy put it out first, but I can't stand her voice.

Robb - As subtle as it may be, there was a BIG to-do when he did it on the Smothers Brothers show.  I couldn't believe the uproar.  Like you, I'm surprised he got out alive.

Shandy, Here's me putting up non-singer John Prine's song and then agreeing with you wholeheartedly about Buffy S-M. I've NEVER heard a worse, less commercial voice than Buffy's. Something about that god-awful warble in her throat when she sang.

As for Seeger, he got it from all sides. Hard leftists disliked him because he quit the Communist Party in '49 and then spoke out loud and often against Russia, Stalin, etc. The Right vilified him for not "naming names" in the McCarthy era.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 10:11:36 PM by JoeC » Logged
bklynmike101
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« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2018, 12:11:03 AM »

Most Yankees trades in the 40s and 50s were total steals by them. Need a bat for the stretch run and WS, get Eddie Robinson, Suitcase Simpson, Johnny Mize or Country Slaughter? Need a 4 or 5 tool starting OF, get Roger Maris. Trade Norm Siebern, Tom Morgan, Billy Hunter, Bob Grim, Tom Sturdivant or whomever.

Back then, the Yanks used the KC Athletics as their virtual farm club, picking up valuable player after valuable player for just about nothing - Maris, Hector Lopez, Ralph Terry, Art Ditmar, Duke Maas, Slaughter, etc.

Tom Morgan's grandson played high school basketball with my one of my sons (the Morgan kid being by far the better of the two - went on to play small-school college ball as well.)
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2018, 01:56:26 AM »

mike-dont forget  Cerv & Lumpe. [Istill  have Maris  card from  1958--Indians]

Seeger  hated R&R.  When he heard   Dylan go  electric  at Newport in 1965, he  ran around frantically looking for an axe  to destroy  the sound equipment.

The MC, Peter or  Paul,  almost had stroke/heart attack  too.
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JoeC
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« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2018, 09:03:41 AM »

mike-dont forget  Cerv & Lumpe. [Istill  have Maris  card from  1958--Indians]

Seeger  hated R&R.  When he heard   Dylan go  electric  at Newport in 1965, he  ran around frantically looking for an axe  to destroy  the sound equipment.

The MC, Peter or  Paul,  almost had stroke/heart attack  too.

As the story goes, think Seeger wanted to use the axe on the cords providing electricity. It was all ridiculous as Chicago's Paul Butterfield Blues Band had just played a full, loud electric set at the Newport Folk Festival and the crowd (including Seeger) said nothing. Pete might as well have been the Little Dutch Boy with his finger in the dike trying to hold back the North Sea as Folk-Rock with the Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, etc. became all the rage and the "pure" folk music craze went back to its niche audience (I liked both genres, still do).
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 09:05:31 AM by JoeC » Logged
bklynmike101
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« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2018, 12:55:15 PM »

DDW,

Cerv, Lumpe, and just as important to the Yanks' winning ways, the trade in the opposite direction of Faye Throneberry's baby brother Marvelous Marv. Later, on the Mets, Marv tripled but was called out for having missed 2B. Casey, protesting vehemently, denied that Marv missed 2B. Sheepishly, however, Casey admitted that Marv had indeed never touched 1B. And what kind of name is Faye for a boy anyway (we used to think)?

Pete Seeger actually came and performed for my 6th grade class in Brooklyn (my teacher had some Greenwich Village-type connections and brought several entertainer types to our class).
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Shandy
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« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2018, 03:43:25 PM »

JoeC - People were much more passionate about Dylan, thought he owed them "purity" for some odd reason.

Mike - Cool story:)
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Robb_K
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« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2018, 06:33:42 PM »

DDW,

Cerv, Lumpe, and just as important to the Yanks' winning ways, the trade in the opposite direction of Faye Throneberry's baby brother Marvelous Marv. Later, on the Mets, Marv tripled but was called out for having missed 2B. Casey, protesting vehemently, denied that Marv missed 2B. Sheepishly, however, Casey admitted that Marv had indeed never touched 1B. And what kind of name is Faye for a boy anyway (we used to think)?

Pete Seeger actually came and performed for my 6th grade class in Brooklyn (my teacher had some Greenwich Village-type connections and brought several entertainer types to our class).
I'm surprised that Faye Throneberry survived to finish elementary school.  What the "H" were his parents thinking?Huh  In Germany, they would NOT have been allowed to give their son such a name.  One of the few good things that came about because of the horrible things The Nazis did, was to make German laws and social systems bend over backwards to provide freedoms and safe conditions to individuals in their society.  They provide safeguards to protect innocent, unborn and young children from the ignorance and stupidity of their parents.  A parent CANNOT name their children a name that "might" lead to ridicule from other children.  So no "Moon Units", Candy Apples, boys named "Sue" or "Fay/Faye", etc.
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JoeC
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« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2018, 06:43:47 PM »

Robb, Faye was his middle name (and, in the Southern tradition, I suspect his mother's maiden name). His full name was Maynard Faye Throneberry. Guess he liked Faye more than Maynard. Or, call himself "Butch" or some other nickname.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2018, 07:08:56 PM »

Robb, Faye was his middle name (and, in the Southern tradition, I suspect his mother's maiden name). His full name was Maynard Faye Throneberry. Guess he liked Faye more than Maynard. Or, call himself "Butch" or some other nickname.
Ha! Ha!  Maynard is a very popular name with good Ol' Southern Boys.  How would you shorten Maynard?  "May" doesn't sound too good.  Neither does "Nard"!  Cheesy  "Nardy"Huh  Usually, when a boy has a really terrible first name, the kids have mercy on him, and call him by his first 2 initials, like H.B. Barnum, T.J. Oshie, and most of The Christian boys with whom I grew up who had been given Biblical first names.  Jewish Boys usually just shortened their Biblical names to Abey, Nate, Mike, Sollie, Davey, Joey, Josh, Ike, Rube, Sammy, etc.  I guess if one got the name Methuselah, they'd end up being called M + 2nd initial, rather than "Meth"?   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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JoeC
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« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2018, 07:23:45 PM »

Only Maynard that comes to my mind is jazz trumpeter, Maynard Ferguson. And, he was Walter Maynard Ferguson! Guess Maynard was a "cooler" name for a jazzman than Walter.

BTW, Ferguson and Dollard St. Laurent grew up in Verdun, Que together.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2018, 07:32:45 PM »

Only Maynard that comes to my mind is jazz trumpeter, Maynard Ferguson. And, he was Walter Maynard Ferguson! Guess Maynard was a "cooler" name for a jazzman than Walter.
BTW, Ferguson and Dollard St. Laurent grew up in Verdun, Que together.
Speaking of nicknames... Dollard changed to "Dolly".  Everybody called him Dolly St. Laurent.  "Dolly" would have been a lousy name in elementary school in an English-speaking country.  But, if the other boys like you, they'll find a good way to refer to you (initials, or a name based on a habit, physical or character trait, or favourite thing.  For a while, I was called "Black", for my black sense of humour.  That wasn't a problem, because when I grew up, there were absolutely no Black people in Manitoba.  We had a relatively poor kid who wore the same green tee-shirt most of the time.  He ended up being called "Greenie". 
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JoeC
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« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2018, 07:42:39 PM »

Yeah, Dolly got a lot of Stanley Cup rings. All those in the 50s with Montreal; then was on that Black Hawks winner at the end of his NHL career. I remember him from when he was with Montreal in the mid to late 50s. Not flashy at all, a real "stay at home" defenseman. Didn't take many penalties either.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2018, 07:55:16 PM »

Yeah, Dolly got a lot of Stanley Cup rings. All those in the 50s with Montreal; then was on that Black Hawks winner at the end of his NHL career. I remember him from when he was with Montreal in the mid to late 50s. Not flashy at all, a real "stay at home" defenseman. Didn't take many penalties either.
Now, we have TWO old-time hockey threads going.  Grin  This thread talks about The Vietnam War, and goes ON TOPIC, about Vietnam songs, and also goes deep into obscure hockey history, and also into boys' experience in elementary school and nicknames, and parents choosing bad names for their kids.  As Tyrone F. Horneigh often said....."Vewry eeenteressstinggg!"
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JoeC
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« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2018, 08:03:29 PM »

Well, I just did my part in shifting the hockey to the Hockey thread.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2018, 08:57:21 PM »

How  about  golfer Gay Brewer.

Re  Seeger--Agree Shandy. Dylan  was  the  biggest  acoustic    folkie  before  Newport--Seeger saw  him then   as a traitorous,  incomprehensible  act.  And from Dylan--  where was   Pete's Thorazine?
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Shandy
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« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2018, 09:00:56 PM »

Is it possible that this site has become more of an OT nightmare since an OT section was included?   I think so.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2018, 09:05:25 PM »

How  about  golfer Gay Brewer.

When I grew up during the late 1940s and 1950s, "gay" meant "happy" and joyous, and nothing else.  Brewer was older than I, so, I suspect that he had no problem with that name.  Didn't he grow up in South Africa?  It certainly shouldn't have been a problem back then.  Not like if his parents had named him "Poof", "Poofy", "Fluffy", "Pansy" or "Queer Boy".  I guess the public recorder might have contacted the parents when they submitted those names, even without having a law analogous to the current German law.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2018, 09:42:39 PM »

Agree Robb--gay  to  mean homosexual   I recall  from the  mid 70s.  Marvin   added  an E  for   other  reasons.   Un  related to  his  father being a transvestite.

I have to  get dressed now to go out --"as I don my gay apparel." Grin Grin Grin
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