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Author Topic: ELVIS  (Read 856 times)
Shandy
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« on: July 01, 2018, 06:14:13 PM »

Black luminaries address the issue of whether or not Elvis stole from the black culture to line his pockets.  About 15 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_dqfeYWsXc
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 08:35:14 PM by Shandy » Logged
doowopbob
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« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2018, 07:04:31 PM »

Thanks for posting Shandy, I really enjoyed that.  I wasn't a big Elvis fan, I preferred Fats Domino, Little Richard and Chuck Berry, but he did put out some good music.  Did he steal from blacks?  We all KNOW that EVERY performer covered songs at one point or another in their careers, Elvis included but that shouldn't automatically be construed to equal musical theft.  Many of his early hits had been performed by blues and country artists and in some cases his recordings gave those songs the "light of day" with the white world.  I don't hear any complaints about the English groups covering so many blues songs to start their careers. 

I choose to believe Sammy Davis Jr.
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JoeC
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« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2018, 07:18:50 PM »

Thanks for posting. To conclude Elvis "stole" from Black artists is certainly technically a fair conclusion. But ... I would never lump his early work in with that of other White singers who you could also say gave R&B some "light of day" with white audiences of the 50s. The gap between Elvis and, say, Pat Boone was an enormous one. 
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dead dog
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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2018, 08:08:09 PM »

Black luminaries address the issue of whether or not Elvis stole from the black culture to line his pockets.  About 15 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_dqfeYWsXc

This was GREAT! How could anyone say he "Elvis stole from the black culture to line his pockets", BULL SHIT!

Elvis felt the same thing we felt when we first heard this music. Not all white teenagers felt it just a few of us did.

I am soo...thankfull for having grown up in Pittsburgh and having our DJ's playing this music instead of being born in Montana.
No disrespect to anyone from Montana, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have R&B and Doo-Wop in Montana.

Yes, I liked Elvis, mostly his earlier years, the 50's.
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Shandy
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« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2018, 08:51:38 PM »

Bob - My pleasure.  I lost interest in him after the very early music and movies.  I believe in giving credit where it's due, though, and nothing does it better than these first person accounts.

Joe - YW, but if you still think it's a "fair conclusion", then my post missed the mark with you.

Bill - So glad you enjoyed it.  Couldn't agree more with the rest of your post, except I'd have to change The Burgh to NYC for geographic reasons Wink
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JoeC
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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2018, 07:48:43 AM »

Think Elvis himself said many times he borrowed or stole from black music. Also, in style and backup harmony, he did the same from the white Southern gospel groups he loved so much.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2018, 10:23:25 AM »

I liked Elvis' Sun recordings, and some of his earliest RCA recordings, a couple of his early '60s songs, as well as his few "Soul" songs of the mid 1960s.  He was a good singer.  He didn't "steal" from The Black singers, especially not just to "line his pockets".  He sang the music he loved.  Just like many of us on this forum do.  What I didn't like was those awful commercial songs written for him at the request of his manager and record company, to capture a wider audience.  That was the same problem he had with the films he acted in, and the parts he was given.  He proved he was a good actor in his first film.  And, yet, he was never given a chance to act in a serious film.  He was also given a lot of lousy material by RCA records.  Too bad he wasn't allowed to continue material like he had at Sun.
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JoeC
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« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2018, 11:30:30 AM »

Think we all agree Andreas Cornelis van Kuijk (aka Tom Parker) and maybe the RCA Records brass did Elvis no favors musically or as an actor. As you live part of the year there, Robb, do any of the Dutch ever express any opinion of their Breda-born countryman, the good Colonel.

One report I read was that Parker's status in the USA was always that of an illegal immigrant; he never became a US citizen. Same report said that was why Parker never left the USA to accompany Elvis abroad (because he feared he would be denied re-entry if he did). As he lived in The Netherlands until age 20, he always spoke fluent Dutch, conducting a phone  interview in the language with a Rotterdam deejay 45 years after he had last lived in Holland.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2018, 12:38:58 PM »

I always  saw  his movies as  1.5    hour  music videos.   Mostly color.   Thanx  to movies we have  just one song by Del Vikings, 5 Satins & Mellokings &    75 by Elvis. Cry Cry Cry Cry
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dead dog
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« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2018, 02:20:07 PM »

I always  saw  his movies as  1.5    hour  music videos.   Mostly color.   Thanx  to movies we have  just one song by Del Vikings, 5 Satins & Mellokings &    75 by Elvis. Cry Cry Cry Cry


Doctor ( put the lime in the coconut and drink it all up) different technology and different money at that time.
Can you imagine if we had today's technology back in the 50's?  Whoa, what could have been, and never was!
No, I don't live in the past, I live in the future. As I write this I'm at the next point in time in my mind.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2018, 04:21:53 PM »

Just frustrating  that the USA never put , as  England did, the 5  Satins  & Mellokings in a movie-"Sweet Beat."

DClark has  hundreds  of rare videos from  1958-on  just languishing--UCLA   archives has full clips of Jan/Arnie, [from J Benny show] very rare D&B  that  guys like us have never seen. That is frustrating.  Has  little  to do with  technology
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Robb_K
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« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2018, 04:43:32 PM »

Think we all agree Andreas Cornelis van Kuijk (aka Tom Parker) and maybe the RCA Records brass did Elvis no favors musically or as an actor. As you live part of the year there, Robb, do any of the Dutch ever express any opinion of their Breda-born countryman, the good Colonel.

One report I read was that Parker's status in the USA was always that of an illegal immigrant; he never became a US citizen. Same report said that was why Parker never left the USA to accompany Elvis abroad (because he feared he would be denied re-entry if he did). As he lived in The Netherlands until age 20, he always spoke fluent Dutch, conducting a phone  interview in the language with a Rotterdam deejay 45 years after he had last lived in Holland.

I didn't know Colonel Tom Parker was Dutch.  Never knew his Dutch name. My ladyfriend lives near Breda.  No, I've never heard any Dutch people talk about Tom Parker as one of their own.  We learn something new every day.
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Shandy
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« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2018, 05:25:14 PM »

JoeC - Elvis ALWAYS gave credit to his influences, always paid the publishers, privately gave thousands to black artists who were cheated in the form of cash, homes and cars, whatever they needed most.  Even first person accounts (and there are many more), don't inform your personal opinion.  Stick to your "stolen" guns, but their not loaded.  Wayne Steriele is considered one of the top experts on Elvis.  I shared your comments with him.  You won't be having brunch with him anytime soon, ROF.

Robb - Amen.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 05:35:38 PM by Shandy » Logged
dead dog
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« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2018, 06:25:16 PM »

Why isn't there a thumbs up or down for this site?
I think it would show how many people liked the comments posted here.
I belong to other sites that have this kind of voting. Huh
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JoeC
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« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2018, 07:46:43 PM »

I'm a big fan of Elvis's music up though, say, 1958. After that, he lost me. As I've said before, Elvis would be the first to tell you he appropriated black music and was proud of it. Pretty forward looking for a Southern white boy in the Deep South in that era! I never said in any way, shape or form that Elvis cheated the writers or did anything malicious.

If I wanted to dine with an "Elvis expert," I'll take Peter Guralnick whose two volumes on the man were great. Especially the first one on his early/Sun years. Can you refer me to a book on the subject by Wayne? Love to read it.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 07:50:40 PM by JoeC » Logged
dead dog
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« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2018, 08:04:19 PM »

Just frustrating  that the USA never put , as  England did, the 5  Satins  & Mellokings in a movie-"Sweet Beat."

DClark has  hundreds  of rare videos from  1958-on  just languishing--UCLA   archives has full clips of Jan/Arnie, [from J Benny show] very rare D&B  that  guys like us have never seen. That is frustrating.  Has  little  to do with  technology

Dick Clark had the money and the technology (ABC). He tried to change R&B and early R&R to a white homogeneous safe soda pop. Yes, I think those hundreds of rare videos from 1958 languishing in the UCLA archive vaults should be turned loose.

The next generations won't know what to think of them or what to do with them (the tapes).
History lost forever.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 08:07:08 PM by dead dog » Logged

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doowopbob
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« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2018, 09:07:11 PM »

Why does Elvis recording of songs previously recorded by black artists have to be described as "appropriated" or "stolen"HuhHuh  He recorded the music put in front of him, he didn't go their studios and take the music before they could record it.  I haven't seen him accused of "stealing" from Hank Snow(A Fool Such As I) or Red Foley(Peace In The Valley), Frankie Laine(I Believe). 

I'm NOT trying to stir a pot here, I'm not as knowledgeable as most of you when it comes to music so please take my comments as observations, not attacks on anyone's posts. 
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Shandy
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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2018, 09:28:03 PM »

Bill - FB and YT have it, but i wouldn't want to see it here.  It would make some members lazy and not articulate what they think about a post/topic, pro or con.  What I'd like to see is blocking.  Say a member bores you.  You block them and you can't see them and they can't see you.  What easier way to end boredom/annoyance/conflict?  Speaking of which.....
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dead dog
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Looking for The Echo


« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2018, 09:43:13 PM »

Bill - FB and YT have it, but i wouldn't want to see it here.  It would make some members lazy and not articulate what they think about a post/topic, pro or con.  What I'd like to see is blocking.  Say a member bores you.  You block them and you can't see them and they can't see you.  What easier way to end boredom/annoyance/conflict?  Speaking of which.....

That would work also.  Cheesy Grin
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Shandy
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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2018, 09:52:59 PM »

JoeC - You use the word "stolen" here at least twice, which I think is malicious and know is misinformed.  Wayne is smarter than to write a book on Elvis  and he's been offered plenty. As far as "appropriating" you're A PRO at that.  You go sniffing around eating up the words of strangers then come back here and regurgitate them.  I am bored to distraction with you and i have only myself to blame by actually giving you the courtesy of paying attention to you and sometimes being dumb enough to respond.  It's my problem and I can fix it.

I'll allow you the last word and won't respond to it or any of your comments nor participate in your topics.  Your time here will go on unchanged, while mine will change for the better with my time more wisely spent Smiley
« Last Edit: July 02, 2018, 10:12:52 PM by Shandy » Logged
Shandy
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« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2018, 10:25:55 PM »

Bob Elvis is an easy target because he was huge and made a lot of money.  Also because some white folk like to pat themselves on the back for what they think is supporting a black "cause".  There have been countless injustices toward black people from the beginning of slavery up to this very minute, but this isn't one of them.
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doowopbob
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« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2018, 10:39:00 PM »

Shandy I agree with you, Elvis really did/does have a target on his back. 
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JoeC
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« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2018, 08:28:33 AM »

All I'll say is I wish I could find the audio of Elvis himself saying he "stole" songs from the likes of Big Boy Crudup, Arthur Gunter, Smiley Lewis, Wynonie Harris, Junior Parker, et. al. Such a conversation on tape does exist, and Elvis said it as I meant it, not in a mean-spirited way. Might well have been when he was being interviewed by Rufus Thomas.

You know, you can "steal" a song, style or an idea; without it meaning you cheated someone. Point about the country artists is well taken. You can add Red Foley to that list with "Old Shep" and Mack David/Patti Page with "I Don't Care If The Sun Don't Shine."
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 12:45:10 PM by JoeC » Logged
Shandy
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« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2018, 01:09:58 AM »

Bob - I know you have quite the music book library.  Do you have any on Elvis?  Besides writing the most liner notes for Elvis, Wayne contributed to many of the books, not wanting credit or copies. He gave the most to two books, "Last Train To Memphis"" and "Careless Love".  Neither one of us has read one Elvis book, so we'd be interested to know what you think of any of the books on him you might have.  Thank you Smiley
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 07:23:37 PM by Shandy » Logged
Shandy
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« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2018, 12:27:02 AM »

Gino - Elsewhere here someone from the East Coast said "everybody" here had Elvis' Sun sides.  I've talked to many distributors in the past who assured me that they were not available on our coast when originally released.  Have you ever heard or seen that this was not the case?  We were drowning in RCA though Grin

More on Elvis, 14 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1pXw1DmsA
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 01:33:02 AM by Shandy » Logged
doowopbob
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« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2018, 03:46:23 PM »

Shandy : I have 375 Elvis songs in my iTunes library mostly from my Son-in-Law who comes from an Elvis loving family.  I read a book by one of Elvis's bodyguards about 30 years ago but don't remember much about it and I no longer have it.  The bodyguard's last name was West I Think.  As to liner notes on his LPs I only have Greatest Hits on Vinyl and there're packed away for our Daughter to get own I joint the Doo Wop groups in the sky.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 07:20:18 PM by doowopbob » Logged
Shandy
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« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2018, 03:51:27 PM »

TY, BOB Smiley
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doowopbob
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« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2018, 07:20:29 PM »

YW Shandy
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Shandy
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« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2018, 07:27:12 PM »

Bob - BTW, I just noticed I made a mistake in my question to you, I should have said "music book library, but you covered all bases!
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doowopbob
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« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2018, 06:46:23 PM »


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jackie+wilson+and+elvis&view=detail&mid=E66AC8DF90A7F8C996E8E66AC8DF90A7F8C996E8&FORM=VIRE&cc=US&setlang=en-US&cvid=1f4641f215df432c9ca46086afd93c1f&qs=AS&nclid=F77A9075670B1201103ED0460C67BA53&ts=1532645590331

A friend sent this along to the group
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