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JoeC
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« on: March 08, 2019, 08:59:40 AM »

Sad to see he has been diagnosed with dementia and has retired from public life. He's 74. Article I read in this morning's Washington Post made it sound like there might have been some connection with the dementia and a couple bouts of Lyme Disease he suffered over that past 25+ years. Never heard that connection made before though, for Seaver or anyone else.

311 wins. 61 complete games. Great USC pitcher from Fresno, CA.

Originally signed by the Atlanta Braves in 1966, the Commissioner voided that contract on some technicality and he ended up with the Mets. Talk about good luck for the Mets.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2019, 11:58:58 AM »

Truly a shocker. I remember being at Shea Stadium and seeing him start and pitch a complete game victory against  Cincinnati in his rookie season, coming in to the game with a 4-4 W-L record. I was quite impressed. he went to a superb career.  Until yesterday, I still thought of Tom Terrific as he was named in the NY press as a good-looking. talented, mentally hinged guy. How did he get to be 74?
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Robb_K
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2019, 08:42:33 PM »

Truly a shocker. I remember being at Shea Stadium and seeing him start and pitch a complete game victory against  Cincinnati in his rookie season, coming in to the game with a 4-4 W-L record. I was quite impressed. he went to a superb career.  Until yesterday, I still thought of Tom Terrific as he was named in the NY press as a good-looking. talented, mentally hinged guy. How did he get to be 74?

By not pissing off whakos who love guns, and by staying clear of organised crime, by not sleeping with hundreds of married women whose husbands are NRA members, ...  but mainly from living 74 years.  Why should that surprise you?  Does Lyme disease kill most of its victims quickly?
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JoeC
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2019, 08:42:10 AM »

Mike, I was surprised to read he was 74. I always thought of him as at least half a generation younger than me.

Robb, I know Lyme Disease is insidious and its symptoms can take many forms. Just never heard it medically connected to dementia.
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bklynmike101
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2019, 03:42:42 PM »

Robb,

As far as I know Tom Seaver lived a clean and laudable life in all dimensions. And he was a helluva pitcher for my Mets back in the day. But he should never be more than about 27 years old. 
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2019, 04:04:09 PM »

I recall  his pretty  wife  Nancy   & living in Greenwich  CT.   He may gone to HS   w/  another  Met  pitcher Dick Selma-not sure.
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JoeC
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2019, 04:59:12 PM »

I recall  his pretty  wife  Nancy   & living in Greenwich  CT.   He may gone to HS   w/  another  Met  pitcher Dick Selma-not sure.
Doc, you're right. Seaver and Selma both started their college careers the same year at Fresno City College. Tom transferred to USC; Dick was drafted by the Mets.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2019, 05:04:37 PM »

Thanx Joe. Notice how  San Joaquin  Valley  guys  dont return?   Gifford-also Bakersfield. 
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Robb_K
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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2019, 10:13:30 PM »

Thanx Joe. Notice how  San Joaquin  Valley  guys  don't return?   Gifford-also Bakersfield. 

Bakersfield, Oildale, Fresno?Huh  Would You return there?   That's like being from Somalia, Aden, Spanish West Africa, German Southwest Africa.  If you were raised in those places and escaped, would you go back?  Shocked
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2019, 02:08:16 PM »

No. Robb--did u know  the  Bakersfield  HS  nickname is "The Drillers."    Dont think that woud be chosen today.
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JoeC
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2019, 04:53:12 PM »

Fresno is the 5th largest city in California; Bakersfield is 9th in population.

Considering you have the big 3 -- LA, SD, and SF -- the two Central Valley cities that high was a bit surprising to me.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2019, 05:24:52 PM »

Fresno is the 5th largest city in California; Bakersfield is 9th in population.

Considering you have the big 3 -- LA, SD, and SF -- the two Central Valley cities that high was a bit surprising to me.

Putting more people in Bakersfield and Fresno doesn't help those places.  I'd rather live in Morocco, Syria or Jordan.  And I'm Jewish.  I HATE  C&W music, and C&W bars, even more.  So, why would I like Bakersfield???

San Jose is bigger than San Francisco, and, I think it is also bigger than San Diego (population).
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2019, 05:35:39 PM »

San Juaquin's  biggest  industry is  Prisons/jails.    Surprising-no  longer  food.
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JoeC
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2019, 07:08:33 PM »


Putting more people in Bakersfield and Fresno doesn't help those places.  I'd rather live in Morocco, Syria or Jordan.  And I'm Jewish.  I HATE  C&W music, and C&W bars, even more.  So, why would I like Bakersfield???

San Jose is bigger than San Francisco, and, I think it is also bigger than San Diego (population).

Top 10 largest Cali cities. Moreno Valley and Santa Clarita moving up fast. Give 'em another decade and they might crack this Top 10. Wonder what Anaheim population was when Disneyland opened in 1955?

1. Los Angeles   
2. San Diego
3. San Jose
4. San Francisco   
5. Fresno
6. Sacramento   
7. Long Beach   
8. Oakland   
9. Bakersfield
10. Anaheim   
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Robb_K
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2019, 11:17:15 PM »


Putting more people in Bakersfield and Fresno doesn't help those places.  I'd rather live in Morocco, Syria or Jordan.  And I'm Jewish.  I HATE  C&W music, and C&W bars, even more.  So, why would I like Bakersfield???

San Jose is bigger than San Francisco, and, I think it is also bigger than San Diego (population).

Top 10 largest Cali cities. Moreno Valley and Santa Clarita moving up fast. Give 'em another decade and they might crack this Top 10. Wonder what Anaheim population was when Disneyland opened in 1955?

1. Los Angeles   
2. San Diego
3. San Jose
4. San Francisco   
5. Fresno
6. Sacramento   
7. Long Beach   
8. Oakland   
9. Bakersfield
10. Anaheim   

Anaheim population  1950   14,556   1960   104,184   Quite a large growth, eh?
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JoeC
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« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2019, 10:52:32 AM »

Wonder what Anaheim population was when Disneyland opened in 1955?

1. Los Angeles   
2. San Diego
3. San Jose
4. San Francisco   
5. Fresno
6. Sacramento   
7. Long Beach   
8. Oakland   
9. Bakersfield
10. Anaheim   

Anaheim population  1950   14,556   1960   104,184   Quite a large growth, eh?

[/quote]

And in 2010, Anaheim had topped 335,000 people.

When Disneyland opened, I think only the 5 Freeway was built from LA down past Anaheim. I don't think the 405 south from the South Bay through Orange County was completed until the late 60s (the first section of the 405, from LAX north, was done many years earlier, circa 1961?).
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2019, 12:48:04 PM »

405--correct  but think  opened north  1963 0r 64
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JoeC
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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2019, 01:14:47 PM »

Doc, I was just guessing on when the first stretch of the 405 opened. I knew it was northbound from the airport.

Can you imagine when Sepulveda Blvd was the road of choice from LAX to the heart of the SF Valley -- before the 405? Even with the lower traffic volume in those days, that had to be a slooow trip, what with the traffic lights.

 
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Robb_K
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2019, 06:59:00 PM »

Wonder what Anaheim population was when Disneyland opened in 1955?

1. Los Angeles   
2. San Diego
3. San Jose
4. San Francisco   
5. Fresno
6. Sacramento   
7. Long Beach   
8. Oakland   
9. Bakersfield
10. Anaheim   

Anaheim population  1950   14,556   1960   104,184   Quite a large growth, eh?


And in 2010, Anaheim had topped 335,000 people.

When Disneyland opened, I think only the 5 Freeway was built from LA down past Anaheim. I don't think the 405 south from the South Bay through Orange County was completed until the late 60s (the first section of the 405, from LAX north, was done many years earlier, circa 1961?).
[/quote]

If I remember correctly, The Interstate 5 had nothing opened in the L,A, Area in 1955.  I remember the only controlled access highway in the whole area was the Arroyo Parkway (later called The Pasadena Freeway.  The Interstate 5 was planned, but I don't remember ANY segment of it open in 1955.
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JoeC
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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2019, 07:22:33 PM »

Robb, you may be right about the 5 in Orange County.

My belief that the 5 was open to traffic in 1955 was based on a fascinating film I saw at some point (think it was a documentary on Walt Disney). It contained a filmed 1955 "introduction" of Disneyland to the people of the Southland. I'm pretty sure it touted the "ease" of getting to new Park from points north via the 5 Freeway.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2019, 08:20:52 PM »

From Santa Monica  had to  take  the 22 Fwy  to Disneyland,  bec the  405 ended.

I have researched  to  no  avail  how  LA  got  a US  Hiway--101

to  become  the Hollywood Fwy--dont recall  NYC  or Chicago  having  major  US  hiways.(before Interstates)
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Robb_K
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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2019, 08:51:39 PM »

Robb, you may be right about the 5 in Orange County.

My belief that the 5 was open to traffic in 1955 was based on a fascinating film I saw at some point (think it was a documentary on Walt Disney). It contained a filmed 1955 "introduction" of Disneyland to the people of the Southland. I'm pretty sure it touted the "ease" of getting to new Park from points north via the 5 Freeway.

While visiting family in  L.A. in 1955, we went to Disneyland.  I don't remember any controlled access highway on our route from West L.A. except, perhaps a small stretch of The Santa Ana Freeway (or what it later became), from near Downtown L.A. angling southeast towards Downey, or so.  It didn't extend far into Orange County.  It ended, and 4-lane wide, Firestone Blvd.  extended southeast from there.  Wikipedia says the last link all the way to Santa Ana, was completed in 1956.  I think it didn't reach Anaheim till then.  I remember it stopping around the L.A./Orange County Line, and emptied onto Firestone Blvd.  Which changed back again to Manchester Avenue, which is now the auxiliary road which runs alongside The Santa Ana Freeway.  By mid 1956, it was completed.  That's when many thousands of people came to Disneyland.  After its opening week, I think numbers were less through most of the remainder of 1955.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2019, 11:06:24 PM »

Robb, you may be right about the 5 in Orange County.

My belief that the 5 was open to traffic in 1955 was based on a fascinating film I saw at some point (think it was a documentary on Walt Disney). It contained a filmed 1955 "introduction" of Disneyland to the people of the Southland. I'm pretty sure it touted the "ease" of getting to new Park from points north via the 5 Freeway.

I saw that film, too.  And it said just what you said.  However, what they said didn't claim that Interstate 5 was a fully constructed controlled access road ALL THE WAY TO Anaheim.  It stated that that new Interstate highway made access to Disneyland from L.A. relatively easy.  That doesn't preclude it being possible that the newly-constructed freeway ended a little beyond the L.A. County/Orange County boundary, and continued down Firestone Blvd./Manchester Avenue for 13 miles as a 4 lane highway with crossroads and a limited number of traffic signals.
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JoeC
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« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2019, 07:58:19 AM »

Robb, I'm sure you're right on the roads.

Switching topics, what do you make of the "rumors" (or are they more than that?) that Walt was anti-Semitic (allegedly having been a member of the German American Bund, and hosting Leni Riefenstahl). Just rumors?

When I'd visit my relatives in Costa Mesa (back then, still almost more lima bean fields than houses) in the mid to late 50s, their neighbor was an animator at Walt's studio. She thought the sun rose and set on Walt, always touting what a great guy/employer he was.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2019, 12:30:59 PM »

Robb, I'm sure you're right on the roads.

Switching topics, what do you make of the "rumors" (or are they more than that?) that Walt was anti-Semitic (allegedly having been a member of the German American Bund, and hosting Leni Riefenstahl). Just rumors?

When I'd visit my relatives in Costa Mesa (back then, still almost more lima bean fields than houses) in the mid to late 50s, their neighbor was an animator at Walt's studio. She thought the sun rose and set on Walt, always touting what a great guy/employer he was.
Walt Disney was a member of The John Birch Society, and was known to be an ardent Anti-Communist and far right-winger.  There were rumours that he was strongly anti-sSemitic.  I imagine that he was, to a certain extent.  I doubt that he approved of EVERYTHING that Hitler and his Nazis did (including the mass murdering).  But, I'd bet that he was not a fan of The Rothschilds, or The US Government helping Israel so very much.
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JoeC
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« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2019, 01:31:55 PM »

Robb, I'm sure you're right on the roads.

Switching topics, what do you make of the "rumors" (or are they more than that?) that Walt was anti-Semitic (allegedly having been a member of the German American Bund, and hosting Leni Riefenstahl). Just rumors?

When I'd visit my relatives in Costa Mesa (back then, still almost more lima bean fields than houses) in the mid to late 50s, their neighbor was an animator at Walt's studio. She thought the sun rose and set on Walt, always touting what a great guy/employer he was.
Walt Disney was a member of The John Birch Society, and was known to be an ardent Anti-Communist and far right-winger.  There were rumours that he was strongly anti-sSemitic.  I imagine that he was, to a certain extent.  I doubt that he approved of EVERYTHING that Hitler and his Nazis did (including the mass murdering).  But, I'd bet that he was not a fan of The Rothschilds, or The US Government helping Israel so very much.

In other words, not unlike a lot of Americans back in his day. As much as people are alarmed about anti-semitism these days (and who wouldn't be after the Squirrel Hill synagogue shooting), I recall it being even more blatant back in my youth.

Seemingly moderate people said things back then that only the most strident anti-Semite would say today. When I was at the University of Miami, I know the families of many of my Jewish friends on campus were "barred" from a number of good Miami Beach hotels -- either outright with signs, or "discouraged" by nasty remarks, poor or non-existent service in restaurants, etc. And this was the mid-1960s.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2019, 07:26:25 PM »

Robb, I'm sure you're right on the roads.

Switching topics, what do you make of the "rumors" (or are they more than that?) that Walt was anti-Semitic (allegedly having been a member of the German American Bund, and hosting Leni Riefenstahl). Just rumors?

When I'd visit my relatives in Costa Mesa (back then, still almost more lima bean fields than houses) in the mid to late 50s, their neighbor was an animator at Walt's studio. She thought the sun rose and set on Walt, always touting what a great guy/employer he was.
Walt Disney was a member of The John Birch Society, and was known to be an ardent Anti-Communist and far right-winger.  There were rumours that he was strongly anti-sSemitic.  I imagine that he was, to a certain extent.  I doubt that he approved of EVERYTHING that Hitler and his Nazis did (including the mass murdering).  But, I'd bet that he was not a fan of The Rothschilds, or The US Government helping Israel so very much.

In other words, not unlike a lot of Americans back in his day. As much as people are alarmed about anti-semitism these days (and who wouldn't be after the Squirrel Hill synagogue shooting), I recall it being even more blatant back in my youth.

Seemingly moderate people said things back then that only the most strident anti-Semite would say today. When I was at the University of Miami, I know the families of many of my Jewish friends on campus were "barred" from a number of good Miami Beach hotels -- either outright with signs, or "discouraged" by nasty remarks, poor or non-existent service in restaurants, etc. And this was the mid-1960s.

That's why we had to start our own country clubs.  People don't want to associate with the descendants of people spawn of The Devil, and who killed their God (even if he was one of their own people).  When I firs visited USA in 1951, we were driving along the southeast shore of lake Michigan, near the Indiana/Michigan border (Michiana Shores).  There was a sign on a PUBLIC BEACH, "No Ni_ _ ers, No Jews, no dogs".  My family and I couldn't go on that beach.  And that was in The North! 
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JoeC
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« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2019, 08:17:50 AM »

On the mark. I know Hillcrest Country Club on Pico, across from Fox, was founded by and for the LA Jewish community. The LA Country Club, off Wilshire in Beverly Hills, didn't have any Jewish members until the 1970s, and then only a few.  

I love the story from Groucho Marx about when an "all-gentile" club offered to waive its policy and let him join, providing he stayed out of their swimming pool, he said something like "How about my daughter, she's only half Jewish? Can she go in up to her knees?"
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Robb_K
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« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2019, 01:59:46 PM »

On the mark. I know Hillcrest Country Club on Pico, across from Fox, was founded by and for the LA Jewish community. The LA Country Club, off Wilshire in Beverly Hills, didn't have any Jewish members until the 1970s, and then only a few.  

I love the story from Groucho Marx about when an "all-gentile" club offered to waive its policy and let him join, providing he stayed out of their swimming pool, he said something like "How about my daughter, she's only half Jewish? Can she go in up to her knees?"

He wouldn't have joined anyway, according to his philosophy:  "I wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would have ME as a member!"
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2019, 03:39:42 PM »

Joe---that was the Jonathan club &  he  said go into the  ocean.  On PCH  in Santa Monica.

I read somewhere that Walt  was not a fan of blacks either--but not  as much as   the virulent  racism of Howard Hughes.
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