DOO-WOP/OLDIES FORUM - Welcome

OT - OFF TOPIC TOPICS :-) => Off Topic Stuff => Topic started by: doctordoowop on March 11, 2021, 06:33:46 PM



Title: Trivia
Post by: doctordoowop on March 11, 2021, 06:33:46 PM
Kenny Loften is the only  athlete  to have ______ and _______.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: JoeC on March 12, 2021, 10:56:17 AM
Doc, don't know the answer but ... does it have anything to do with his basketball and baseball prowess (like Gene Conley)? I don't think Lofton played pro basketball, did he?


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 12, 2021, 11:39:55 AM
Doc, don't know the answer but ... does it have anything to do with his basketball and baseball prowess (like Gene Conley)? I don't think Lofton played pro basketball, did he?

James Lofton played football.  ;D


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: doctordoowop on March 13, 2021, 02:06:25 AM
World Series & NCAA Final 4.  Bet he was as stud in HS. Tough one.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 14, 2021, 11:32:19 PM
World Series & NCAA Final 4.  Bet he was as stud in HS. Tough one.

It was incredibly tough for me.  I've NEVER even heard of the guy!  ;D  Just like I don't think I could name a current singer, or an NBA player, even if my life depended upon it.  I don't think I could name one current baseball player, even after seeing some mentioned in our Baseball threads.  But, I can name literally thousands from both categories from 1930s -1965, and probably tell most of their life stories.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: doctordoowop on March 16, 2021, 10:04:52 PM
Robb-u didnt answer my ??  about Smokey. Song writing genius?


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 17, 2021, 01:46:16 AM
Robb-u didnt answer my ??  about Smokey. Song writing genius?

I read what you wrote about Smokey, but I don't remember seeing a question, unless I thought it was rhetorical.  I can't find that thread now, so can you ask the question again on this thread? - OR direct me to the other thread?


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: doctordoowop on March 20, 2021, 01:50:39 AM
After Berry Gordy  heard  "Something New'  writen by  Smokey he said it convinced him that Robinson was a song writing genius.  Agree?  I know 3 people who   like that best of all Smokey  songs-  Joe, Me, and Gordy.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 20, 2021, 03:03:02 AM
After Berry Gordy  heard  "Something New'  writen by  Smokey he said it convinced him that Robinson was a song writing genius.  Agree?  I know 3 people who   like that best of all Smokey  songs-  Joe, Me, and Gordy

I certainly liked "I'll Try Something new' best of Smokey's songs up to the point when that came out.  But, just like I can't choose a Top 1o, Top 50, Top 100, or Top 1000 favourite songs of all time - (there are too many that are perfect, and would all be tied as my favourites), I would have so many other songs written by him tied with it for first (including "The Tracks of My Tears", "Come Spy With Me", "My Smile Is Just A Frown, Turned Upside Down", "Goodbye Cruel Love", "Mr. Misery", "When I'm Gone".  There are just too many.  On different days I like different of them better.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: JoeC on March 20, 2021, 07:10:57 AM
After Berry Gordy  heard  "Something New'  writen by  Smokey he said it convinced him that Robinson was a song writing genius.  Agree?  I know 3 people who   like that best of all Smokey  songs-  Joe, Me, and Gordy

I certainly liked "I'll Try Something new' best of Smokey's songs up to the point when that came out.  But, just like I can't choose a Top 1o, Top 50, Top 100, or Top 1000 favourite songs of all time - (there are too many that are perfect, and would all be tied as my favourites), I would have so many other songs written by him tied with it for first (including "The Tracks of My Tears", "Come Spy With Me", "My Smile Is Just A Frown, Turned Upside Down", "Goodbye Cruel Love", "Mr. Misery", "When I'm Gone".  There are just too many.  On different days I like different of them better.
I agree. There's a whole basket of songs right up there with the 1962 ballad we're talking about. To me, just a hair below!

I was trying to think of Smokey songs I did NOT like. One of those that came to mind (using only his "hits") was "Mickey's Monkey." Then I remembered that Smokey didn't write that (H-D-H if I recall).

Robb, thanks for reminding me of "My Smile Is Just A Frown ... ." A big Northern Soul favorite in the UK. Sort of Mary Wells-ish. Caroline Crawford was, I think, 16 when she recorded "Smile." Went on to make a modest name for herself as a disco singer with Gamble and Huff in Philly in the 70s.



Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 21, 2021, 11:28:35 PM
I certainly liked "I'll Try Something new' best of Smokey's songs up to the point when that came out.  But, just like I can't choose a Top 1o, Top 50, Top 100, or Top 1000 favourite songs of all time - (there are too many that are perfect, and would all be tied as my favourites), I would have so many other songs written by him tied with it for first (including "The Tracks of My Tears", "Come Spy With Me", "My Smile Is Just A Frown, Turned Upside Down", "Goodbye Cruel Love", "Mr. Misery", "When I'm Gone".  There are just too many.  On different days I like different of them better.
I was trying to think of Smokey songs I did NOT like. One of those that came to mind (using only his "hits") was "Mickey's Monkey." Then I remembered that Smokey didn't write that (H-D-H if I recall).

I didn't like "Mickeys Monkey" or "I Gotta Dance To Keep From Crying" all that much, but they were more than just listenable.  I absolutely HATED the novelty song, "Don't Say Bye, Bye" by Ron(White) & Bill (Smokey Robinson) - flip of "It".  It was terrible.
'
Of Smokey's written songs, I disliked only a handful of the earliest B sides that were jump blues or novelty (Bluesy and not sweet, and not ballads), as well as 2 later songs: "Come On, Do The Jerk", and "Come Round Here (I'm The One You Need).  Otherwise I liked all the some hundreds on 45s and LPs until he left the group, and Billy Griffin took over.  I only remember hearing the first few Smokey solo cuts, but I liked them.  And I like "Cruisin' ".  He and my fellow townie, Curtis Mayfield, are my 2 favourite solo songwriters, followed very closely, by Van McCoy.  my favourite songwriting teams are a tie among Mickey Stevenson & Ivy Hunter, Goffin & King, and Bachrach & David, then Russ Titleman & Jerry Goffin very close behind(only because Titleman wrote so few songs - but they were spectacularly good).


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: JoeC on March 22, 2021, 07:28:05 AM
I'm a huge Curtis Mayfield fan. Terrific songwriting, his own unique (and much admired) style on the guitar, his musical arranging, and that fantastic tenor voice!

"People Get Ready" and "For Your Precious Love" are among the greatest songs of that era. My own favorites to add to those are "Mama Didn't Lie,""Sad Sad Girl and Boy," "Gypsy Woman," "I'm So Proud," and "Freddie's Dead."  I could name another dozen or so with ease.

Russ Titelman. Goes back to Fairfax High connection with Phil Spector (Marshall Lieb of the Teddy Bears dated Russ's sister; Russ himself was in the Spectors Three). I have a feeling Russ's songs that you admire and the one that I have in mind are not the same. If you want, throw out a few titles for me to look into. The one I had in mind is one from the mid-70s by Linda Ronstadt. Called "The Tattler" (written with fellow LA guitarist, Ry Cooder).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foa6UFKYWUg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foa6UFKYWUg)





Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 22, 2021, 01:40:21 PM
I'm a huge Curtis Mayfield fan. Terrific songwriting, his own unique (and much admired) style on the guitar, his musical arranging, and that fantastic tenor voice!

"People Get Ready" and "For Your Precious Love" are among the greatest songs of that era. My own favorites to add to those are "Mama Didn't Lie,""Sad Sad Girl and Boy," "Gypsy Woman," "I'm So Proud," and "Freddie's Dead."  I could name another dozen or so with ease.

Russ Titelman. Goes back to Fairfax High connection with Phil Spector (Marshall Lieb of the Teddy Bears dated Russ's sister; Russ himself was in the Spectors Three). I have a feeling Russ's songs that you admire and the one that I have in mind are not the same. If you want, throw out a few titles for me to look into. The one I had in mind is one from the mid-70s by Linda Ronstadt. Called "The Tattler" (written with fellow LA guitarist, Ry Cooder).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foa6UFKYWUg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foa6UFKYWUg)

"Baby, Baby, I Still Love You" - Cinderellas (AKA Cookies), "Please Don't Wake Me" - Cinderellas (AKA Cookies), "I Never Dreamed" - Cookies, "My Heart's Not In It" - Darlene McCrea (former Cookie), "Just A Little Touch of Your Love" - Saundra Franklin, "She Don't Deserve You" - Honey Bees (AKA Cookies)




Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: JoeC on March 22, 2021, 01:58:01 PM
Thanks, Robb

 Good stuff. I knew "My Heart's Not In It" and "I Never Dreamed." Didn't realize Russ wrote a lot with Gerry Goffin.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 23, 2021, 01:13:49 AM
Thanks, Robb

Good stuff. I knew "My Heart's Not In It" and "I Never Dreamed." Didn't realize Russ wrote a lot with Gerry Goffin.

Russ worked for Don Kirschner's AlDon Music, and his Dimension Records, along with all those other Brill Building songwriters, Jerry Goffin and Carol King, Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil, Helen Miller, and so many more.  Kirschner sold out to Colpix (Screen Gems-Columbia Music, and that gave all those writers guaranteed work and an almost automatic customer (salary + guaranteed work + residuals that actually got paid to the writer- which didn't happen from most record labels).

But Russ took a long time to perfect songs, and was a recording session player, and went to acting school, and later worked mainly on film soundtracks.  So he wrote less light Soul and Pop music in the late 1960s and 1970s than he did during the early '60s.  So, I lost track of him, because I didn't listen to any Pop music during the 1970s, and didn't pay attention to the film score writing credits (and didn't really pay attention to many films after the 1960s).



Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: doctordoowop on March 25, 2021, 12:53:54 AM
With all the great writers above--the BEST  rock XMAS  song is Little Saint Nick by B Wilson.  Better than Berry, McCartney, Lennon et al  in XMASsongs.Johnny ,Marks isnt bad either.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 25, 2021, 12:06:48 PM
With all the great writers above--the BEST  rock XMAS  song is Little Saint Nick by B Wilson.  Better than Berry, McCartney, Lennon et al  in XMASsongs.Johnny ,Marks isnt bad either.
I agree that "Little Saint Nick" is as good as the Phil Spector  X-Mas songs, but these would be right up there:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVYEd4JFM_g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfttsGZP94Q&t=21s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvJ2JZKAn_0


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 25, 2021, 12:08:00 PM
With all the great writers above--the BEST  rock XMAS  song is Little Saint Nick by B Wilson.  Better than Berry, McCartney, Lennon et al  in XMASsongs.Johnny ,Marks isnt bad either.
Duplicate post


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: doctordoowop on March 26, 2021, 01:46:07 AM
Was Titleman in or related to  a Titleman in IVY 3--"  Yogi Baby   Hety  Boo Boo?


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: JoeC on March 26, 2021, 07:20:51 AM
Was Titleman in or related to  a Titleman in IVY 3--"  Yogi Baby   Hety  Boo Boo?

Doesn't appear so, Doc. Here's their Wiki writeup:
-------------------------------------
"The Ivy Three were an American pop group from Garden City, Long Island, New York.

The group was formed by three undergraduates at Adelphi University in 1959. They signed to Shell Records; their first single, "Yogi", was written by Shell founders Lou Stallman and Sid Jacobson along with member Charles Koppelman. The song became a hit in America, peaking at #22 on the Black Singles chart and #8 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1960.

Ivy Three members: Artie Kaye (Artie Berkowitz), Charles Koppelman, and Don Rubin"
------------------------------------------
Just as an aside, Stallman and Jacobson (the label owners) wrote "Treasure of Love" for Clyde McPhatter and "Don't Pity Me" for Dion & The Belmonts -- two of my favorites.



Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 26, 2021, 02:15:04 PM
Was Titleman in or related to  a Titleman in IVY 3--"  Yogi Baby   Hety  Boo Boo?

Doesn't appear so, Doc. Here's their Wiki writeup:
-------------------------------------
"The Ivy Three were an American pop group from Garden City, Long Island, New York.

The group was formed by three undergraduates at Adelphi University in 1959. They signed to Shell Records; their first single, "Yogi", was written by Shell founders Lou Stallman and Sid Jacobson along with member Charles Koppelman. The song became a hit in America, peaking at #22 on the Black Singles chart and #8 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1960.

Ivy Three members: Artie Kaye (Artie Berkowitz), Charles Koppelman, and Don Rubin"
------------------------------------------
Just as an aside, Stallman and Jacobson (the label owners) wrote "Treasure of Love" for Clyde McPhatter and "Don't Pity Me" for Dion & The Belmonts -- two of my favorites.

Titleman is a very rare name.  Even if they weren't legally related (3rd cousin or closer), they probably are fairly closely genetically related.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: JoeC on March 26, 2021, 03:57:29 PM
Titleman is a very rare name.  Even if they weren't legally related (3rd cousin or closer), they probably are fairly closely genetically related.
[/quote]
Think Russ's surname was definitely spelled Titelman, not Titleman. Is that how it appeared when credited as a writer on 45s?

Little known fact: Russ sang as the "fourth Paris Sister" on the hits Phil Spector produced for the three sisters. 



Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 26, 2021, 05:40:10 PM
Titleman is a very rare name.  Even if they weren't legally related (3rd cousin or closer), they probably are fairly closely genetically related.
Think Russ's surname was definitely spelled Titelman, not Titleman. Is that how it appeared when credited as a writer on 45s?

Little known fact: Russ sang as the "fourth Paris Sister" on the hits Phil Spector produced for the three sisters. 
[/quote]

Russ spelled it Titelman.  But, it's such a rare name, I suspect they both started with the same family.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: doctordoowop on March 27, 2021, 01:10:16 AM
Joe--thinking of Koppelman--he made it big as producer  of Movies/TV  in Hollywood.

Note to Robb. With all Motown writing talent why did the 4 Tops   do   Left Banke's "Walk Away Renee?"


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: JoeC on March 27, 2021, 06:58:42 AM
Joe--thinking of Koppelman--he made it big as producer  of Movies/TV  in Hollywood.

Note to Robb. With all Motown writing talent why did the 4 Tops   do   Left Banke's "Walk Away Renee?"
Doc, I agree on "Walk Away Renee." It was a huge hit for the Tops but I always preferred the "baroque rock" original by the Left Banke, harpsichord and all.

Koppelman and Rubin did both become multi-millionaires after their Adelphi days. Koppelman eventually became President of the international multimedia giant, EMI Corporation.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 27, 2021, 11:56:46 AM
Joe--thinking of Koppelman--he made it big as producer  of Movies/TV  in Hollywood.

Note to Robb. With all Motown writing talent why did the 4 Tops   do   Left Banke's "Walk Away Renee?"
I seem to remember one of them saying in an interview that it was because they, themselves liked the song, and requested that they sing it.  Apparently Quality Control thought it was good enough to be a 45 A-side.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: bklynmike101 on March 27, 2021, 12:43:04 PM
On Walk Away Renee, the Tops knocked it out of the park in my opinion, and had a moderate hit with it. Same thing with their outstanding rendition of MacArthur Park.
Although of course primarily known for their Motown and subsequent Motown-light sound, they recorded and performed  standards, Broadway and jazz tunes as well.

Full disclosure: I'm an unabashed Four Tops fan full stop.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on March 27, 2021, 03:18:55 PM
On Walk Away Renee, the Tops knocked it out of the park in my opinion, and had a moderate hit with it. Same thing with their outstanding rendition of MacArthur Park.
Although of course primarily known for their Motown and subsequent Motown-light sound, they recorded and performed  standards, Broadway and jazz tunes as well.
Full disclosure: I'm an unabashed Four Tops fan full stop.

As you know, The Four Tops had a Motown Jazz LP planned (but it was never released, because, during its early stages of production , after 10-12 Jazz cuts were recorded, their Soul release, "Baby, I Need Your Loving"" became such a monster (group debut) hit, that Motown wanted to follow up on that, and give The Four Tops an image as a Soul group, rather than water that down by having an image as a versatile, Jazz/Pop group.  In The Motown Vaults, I found their 12 Jazz cuts on a demo 12 inch LP, plus a mock-up LP cover listing the songs.  So, I can personally attest that that project had gotten past the "slated" stage.  I also seem to remember one of Motown's in-house future LP lists listing their Jazz LP with an assigned number.  I can't remember if, after the LP was cancelled, that number was used for an LP that DID get issued.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: doctordoowop on March 27, 2021, 10:15:34 PM
mike hope u caught  the great Ask  the Lonely  -live in Paris about 1967.    Levi   really  did it justice--sweat streaming down his face. Great display of emotion.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: bklynmike101 on March 28, 2021, 02:04:17 PM
Robb/Doctor,

Levi's voice was one of a kind - incomparable - able to ooze with emotion while staying completely under control. To me, those most will disagree, General Johnson of The Showmen/Chairmen Of The Board, was the only singer whose voice somewhat echoed that of Levi. I had the good fortune of seeing the Four Tops live about a dozen times, on both coasts, all original members intact of course, in venues ranging from large to small, an intimate supper club in SF, outdoors at a housing project in Brooklyn, MSG, etc.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: doctordoowop on April 03, 2021, 05:50:10 PM
Levi-obviously great guy--refused  to leave Tops  even tho Andantes did as much background as they did .  Stayedin Detroit-- refused LA. I know he sang lead on all hits-but every album cutvtoo? 

BTW "Turn to Stone" was  very popular in LA. Flip  of 7 Rooms of  Gloom or Bernadette?


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: Robb_K on April 03, 2021, 10:54:09 PM
Levi-obviously great guy--refused  to leave Tops  even tho Andantes did as much background as they did .  Stayedin Detroit-- refused LA. I know he sang lead on all hits-but every album cutvtoo? 

BTW "Turn to Stone" was  very popular in LA. Flip  of 7 Rooms of  Gloom or Bernadette?
"7 Rooms of Gloom".  To me, "I'll Turn To Stone" was the "A" side.  Just like "Don't Look Back" was the "A" side for The Temptations, and "My Baby" was the "B" side.


Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: JoeC on April 04, 2021, 07:20:58 AM
So many great songs by the Tops.

VERY hard to name my favorite, but might have to go with "Loving You Is Sweeter Than Ever" or "Bernadette."  

As a guitar player in a bar band in the mid-60s, I used to love to try to emulate the great Funk Brother Robert White's guitar work on the hard-driving "Something About You." (Robert also did the well known guitar part on "My Girl" by the Temptations.)  

Ivy Jo Hunter and Stevie. Did they write any other songs (other than Loving You Is Sweeter ...) together?







Title: Re: Trivia
Post by: bklynmike101 on April 04, 2021, 12:57:16 PM
Levi-obviously great guy--refused  to leave Tops  even tho Andantes did as much background as they did .  Stayedin Detroit-- refused LA. I know he sang lead on all hits-but every album cutvtoo? 

BTW "Turn to Stone" was  very popular in LA. Flip  of 7 Rooms of  Gloom or Bernadette?
"7 Rooms of Gloom".  To me, "I'll Turn To Stone" was the "A" side.  Just like "Don't Look Back" was the "A" side for The Temptations, and "My Baby" was the "B" side.

I'll Turn To Stone has always been one of favorites. Definitely had some run on NY Top 40.