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JoeC
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« on: August 01, 2021, 04:25:55 PM »

Someone, on a Washington Nationals board that I'm on, observed that the trade deadline-depleted Nats were starting six Latiinos out of their eight position players against the Chicago Cubs today.

Made me think back to the Washington Senators teams from 1950-59 where Clark Griffith was so cheap that he had Joe Cambria scour Cuba for talent that would sign and play for peanuts. This was a time when Latin players were rarely found in MLB. Joe Cambria had the island all to himself, signing 400 Cuban players over 20+ years working for Griffith.

Anyone want to try to come up with the names of 4 Pitchers, 4 Infielders, 1 Outfielder and 1 Catcher who played for Washington at least one year in the 1950s, and were born/raised in Cuba.

Clues to follow if anyone's interested.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 04:31:23 PM by JoeC » Logged
Robb_K
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2021, 05:24:45 PM »

Someone, on a Washington Nationals board that I'm on, observed that the trade deadline-depleted Nats were starting six Latiinos out of their eight position players against the Chicago Cubs today.

Made me think back to the Washington Senators teams from 1950-59 where Clark Griffith was so cheap that he had Joe Cambria scour Cuba for talent that would sign and play for peanuts. This was a time when Latin players were rarely found in MLB. Joe Cambria had the island all to himself, signing 400 Cuban players over 20+ years working for Griffith.

Anyone want to try to come up with the names of 4 Pitchers, 4 Infielders, 1 Outfielder and 1 Catcher who played for Washington at least one year in the 1950s, and were born/raised in Cuba.

Clues to follow if anyone's interested.
I just have to picture The Senators/Nationals baseball cards in my head.  I'll probably remember 50 position players and 25 pitchers!  Grin

Sandy Consuegra P
Connie Marrero P
Mike Guerra C
Willy Miranda SS
Julio Moreno P
Frank Campos OF
Camilo Pascual P
Pedro Ramos P
Carlos Paula OF
Jose Valdevielso SS
Julio Becquer 1B
Ossie Alvarez SS
Zoilo Versailles SS

Those are all I remember from the cards.  I'm not sure if a couple of them are Mexican, or Venezuelan, or Puerto-Ricque?o.  But, as Griffith brought so very many over from Cuba, starting way back in The 1930s, I always assumed that they were almost ALL, if not all from Cuba.
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JoeC
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2021, 07:03:24 PM »

Robb, You had three players I had totally forgotten -- Campos, Alvarez and Moreno.

I have two more players that you didn't include so I'll give you a clue for each. They are from opposite ends of the 1950s decade and both only played one year in that decade for the Senators.

1. The first player is a RH pitcher who was signed by Joe Cambria and came up to Washington in 1952. You'd know him better, I'm sure, for being with the White Sox from 1953-56 (Sox got him from Washington in a trade for Chuck Stobbs).

2. An infielder who became an American League MVP at SS in the 60s. Came up to Washington in 1959.

Every single one of these 15 players was Cuban (including the three additional guys you named).

Speaking of the White Sox and Senators, Sandy Consuegra was a favorite of mine throughout his career. What a season he had in 1954 for the Sox. 16-3 with a 2.69 ERA. He was 34 yrs old (his age was his career-limiting factor -- he was 30 (at least) when he first came to Washington in 1950).

 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 08:14:59 PM by JoeC » Logged
Robb_K
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2021, 10:20:16 PM »

Robb, You had three players I had totally forgotten -- Campos, Alvarez and Moreno.

I have two more players that you didn't include so I'll give you a clue for each. They are from opposite ends of the 1950s decade and both only played one year in that decade for the Senators.

1. The first player is a RH pitcher who was signed by Joe Cambria and came up to Washington in 1952. You'd know him better, I'm sure, for being with the White Sox from 1953-56 (Sox got him from Washington in a trade for Chuck Stobbs).

2. An infielder who became an American League MVP at SS in the 60s. Came up to Washington in 1959.

1.  Mike Fornieles !  I NEVER thought of him as a Cuban.  The announcers ALWAYS called him "Mike".  He was NEVER called "Miguel".  And his last name was pronounced nothing at all like a Spanish name or word.  They pronounced it like a Greek name:  "For-knee-Leez".  As a Spanish name, it should have been pronounced: "Foar-Knee-ehh-less".  I had NEVER heard of a Cuban using any Anglicized first name.  Also, I am fluent in Spanish now.  But when I first heard his name misspoken by the announcers, I didn't know any Spanish other than "?S?, Se?or!"  We didn't learn Spanish in Winnipeg.  You learned German, Russian, or French.  I learned French, Dutch, and Yiddish.  I NEVER dreamed Fornieles was a Cuban.  He also looked more like a Greek than a Cuban.  He must have absolutely no African or Native Caribbean blood in him.

2. I already listed Zoilo Versalles above!!!  How many Cuban shortstops who won The AL MVP came up with The Senators in 1959?Huh
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JoeC
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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2021, 07:00:40 AM »

Sorry about Zoilo.

Good stuff on Fornieles. I never thought of him as a Latino player either. But ... he was born and raised in Havana. Threw a 1-hitter in his Senators/MLB debut. Joe Astroth of the A's broke up his no-hitter.

On the flip side, I somehow thought Reno Bertoia was Latino. His parents immigrated(or is it emigrated? I never know) from Italy and he grew up in Canada (Windsor). Played for Washington at the end of the 50s. 

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Robb_K
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2021, 02:04:03 PM »

Sorry about Zoilo.

Good stuff on Fornieles. I never thought of him as a Latino player either. But ... he was born and raised in Havana. Threw a 1-hitter in his Senators/MLB debut. Joe Astroth of the A's broke up his no-hitter.

On the flip side, I somehow thought Reno Bertoia was Latino. His parents immigrated(or is it emigrated? I never know) from Italy and he grew up in Canada (Windsor). Played for Washington at the end of the 50s. 

I knew that Reno was an Italian first name, and Bertoia wasn't Spanish, so
i knew it had to be Italian.  "Mike" Garcia was the only other Latino I remember using an Anglicised first name, but, I was sure he had been a Mexican - not a Cuban.  Had I talked to Fornieles before a Red Sox-White Sox game, I'd have realised he was a Latino, and not a Greek.  But, I never did.  The Red Sox had Ted Williams and a lot of other players I'd rather have met.
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JoeC
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2021, 04:25:05 PM »

Mike Garcia and Lefty Gomez were of Mexican-American heritage. But ... unlike the Senators we named, they were both born and raised in California. Ted Williams had Mexican heritage through his mother (which he went to great effort to hide -- he was embarassed by her doubly, via her Mexican heritage and her Salvation Army zealotry).

Others off the top of my head who had anglicized first names (or used nicknames instead of their given first names):

Orestes (Minnie) Minoso - Cuban born
Bobby Estalella - Cuban born
Mike Cuellar - Cuban born
Adolfo "Dolf" Luque - Cuban born
Roberto (some, early on, insisted on "Bobby") Clemente - Puerto Rican

« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 04:28:25 PM by JoeC » Logged
bklynmike101
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2021, 11:11:22 AM »

Pedro Ramos was often dubbed just plain old Pete (Ramos). There were other cases as well. As a kid, I recall enjoying the "fact" that Reno Bertoia was born in Italy, lived in Canada, had (allegedly) some connection to Cuba, and played ball in the USA.
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JoeC
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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2021, 12:07:49 PM »

Pedro Ramos was indeed referred to as Pete. Forgot that one. By the time he got to the NYY in 1964, what was he called? Pedro or Pete? I can't remember.

Related trivia question:

Who did the Indians receive back from the Yankees in the Fall of 1964 in the trade of Ramos to NY? Both were pitchers.

One was a 23 game winner for the Yanks in 1962; and won 97 games for them between 1956-64.

The other pitcher going from the NYY to Cleveland threw a good knuckle ball and curve. An All-Star in 1959 and 1960 for the KC Athletics (won 16 games in 1960).  In his career, won 60 games for the Indians, A's, and Yanks between 1955-64. This would've been his second stint with Cleveland but ... he never pitched again after 1964.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2021, 01:33:50 PM »

Pedro Ramos was often dubbed just plain old Pete (Ramos). There were other cases as well. As a kid, I recall enjoying the "fact" that Reno Bertoia was born in Italy, lived in Canada, had (allegedly) some connection to Cuba, and played ball in the USA.
But Ramos was always named "Pedro" on all his baseball cards I can remember. - even though the text blurb about him on the information side of the card often called him "Pete".  Maybe Bertoia played Winter Ball in Cuba for a couple years.  But I don't remember him having any connection to Cuba.
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Robb_K
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2021, 02:28:38 PM »

Pedro Ramos was indeed referred to as Pete. Forgot that one. By the time he got to the NYY in 1964, what was he called? Pedro or Pete? I can't remember.

Related trivia question:

Who did the Indians receive back from the Yankees in the Fall of 1964 in the trade of Ramos to NY? Both were pitchers.

One was a 23 game winner for the Yanks in 1962; and won 97 games for them between 1956-64.

The other pitcher going from the NYY to Cleveland threw a good knuckle ball and curve. An All-Star in 1959 and 1960 for the KC Athletics (won 16 games in 1960).  In his career, won 60 games for the Indians, A's, and Yanks between 1955-64. This would've been his second stint with Cleveland but ... he never pitched again after 1964.

The 23-game winner had to be Ralph Terry.  The other one played for Cleveland and The A's.  That must be Bud Daley.
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JoeC
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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2021, 03:44:09 PM »

The 23-game winner had to be Ralph Terry.  The other one played for Cleveland and The A's.  That must be Bud Daley.
[/quote]
Yes, those are indeed the two. Terry really rebounded very well from the 1960 WS disaster. I didn't recall Daley's 4 years with the Yanks but ... I was in college in the first half of the 60s so paid a lot less attention to what was going on. That's my excuse anyway!
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2021, 04:08:37 PM »

I met Connie Marrero in Cuba.  He showed me his BB card.  He was about 90 as I recall.

Joe-no disrespect -actually respect-- third  of most starting BB teams or close  are Dominican. I was talking to the scout who signed Rob Cano--in DR. I saw 15 yr olds practicing at 8AM. The scout told me they play all day-hard-and all quit school.  He said most dont make MLB--then have problems.

BTW, every MLB team has beautiful  fields in DR. Just like a spring training site.  Of course, none in Cuba.

PS-yet Joe Morgan continues bitching that number of AA  players are dwindling in MLB.  He forgets that  all black Latins came from Africa. Agree they are not American of course.
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JoeC
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2021, 06:18:53 PM »

Doc, thanks for that. Good stuff! Connie Marrero was a very effective pitcher on some terrible Senators teams. Envy you getting to meet him.

Did you (or anyone else) ever see a movie-length documentary that came out about 10 years or so ago -- about Luis Tiant's return to Cuba? It was called "The Lost Son of Havana." I don't remember much other than it was very well done and raised my already high regard for Luis and his stellar career.
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doctordoowop
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« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2021, 02:03:29 AM »

Tiant?Will search .  Joe one emigates FROM & immigrates  To.

lLke the speaker implies, but listener infers. Most Americans mis usethe word infer.

Most Americans dont know difference between acronym and abbreviation. I blame it on the dumbing down of schools--and NO reading.


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